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Chair seat/back pain?

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  • #1

    Chair seat/back pain?

    Could a rider with a chair seat, most of her weight at the very back of the saddle create back pain in a horse making him reluctant to go forward in an even rhythm?
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Yes, I would say so. Basing my opinion on the fact that I owned a saddle that was just a little too small for me, pushing me back toward the cantle and making my horse very back sore. That one lasted about 2 weeks before going back on eBay!
    ~Nancy~

    Adams Equine Wellness

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    • #3
      Depends on why the chair seat.

      A rider with very short upper legs on a round horse will have a chair seat, physics at work there, but if that is a well balanced rider, it will keep it's weight where it belongs, not back there.

      A sloppy rider with all it's weight on his behind, chair seat or not, will cause more pressure on a horse's back, some times enough to cause soreness.

      I would say, it depends on more than just what seat a rider may have, but how it distributes it's weight.
      Also, how heavy the rider is can play a role there.

      One example of an awesome, smooth and top rider, she was World Champion, that tended to have a bit of a chair seat and I guarantee you her horses didn't feel her on her back, is Gail Greenough.
      Scroll down for a video:

      http://www.showjumpingnostalgia.com/?cat=28&paged=32

      She was an exemplar, quiet and sensitive rider, which is why she beat everyone, riding all four horses best of any and she was in top company.
      Also a wonderful lady.

      Comment

      • Original Poster
        #4
        The rider actually has a long thigh and she seems to have trouble stretching down into her feet. She also has some hip pain and is generally not very agile. I have tried without success to get her to lengthen her stirrups. We have been trying to figure out what the problem was. He is perfectly sound when lunged. The owner only rides him twice a week and I work him four times a week. He has gone well for me until a few months ago.

        She was away for a month. I lunged and rode him very lightly during this time. This past week I had gone back to our regular routine and he was going well. She rode him yesterday for the first time and he started going poorly almost immediately. She is having a chiro out next week to check him out.

        When he was at his worst he would skip in the trot, suck back. At the canter he would switch behind and end up disunited. Watching her ride yesterday I came to the conclusion that it was her seat causing the problem.

        I suggested that she ride without stirrups for a while to learn to stretch down so that she may sit closer to the pommel instead of the back of the saddle. Once she is used to the longer leg she should also lengthen her stirrups.

        Do you think I am on the right track?

        Comment

        • #5
          Among other possibilities, in chair seat with her lower leg in front, she is rising behind the motion, which makes her horse hesitant to go forward. Same situation in the canter. If she is also unbalanced, and how could she not be, besides making him uncomfortable she is throwing him off balance.

          She is also placing her weight further back in his back than the saddle's design and balance allows.
          Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

          Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

          Comment

          • #6
            Yes. So can a saddle that doesn't fit.

            Comment

            • #7
              If her weight is behind a certain rib vertebra on his back, yes. Try having your rider do off the horse body work to increase her flexibility. I got a Foam Roller, amazing for adult riders stretches ligaments and tendons. Tell her to get the one from a sporting goods shop ( not the cheaper Walmart one). It looks like a pool noodle and cost around $30, comes with a chart of excersizes but the best are the youtube videos on Foam rolling offers more stretched part one for inner thigh near pelvic area which loosens the ligaments to let legs hang done.

              She many need a new or different saddle as well, what saddle is she riding in?

              Comment

              • #8
                Originally posted by Cat Tap View Post
                The rider actually has a long thigh and she seems to have trouble stretching down into her feet. She also has some hip pain and is generally not very agile. I have tried without success to get her to lengthen her stirrups. We have been trying to figure out what the problem was. He is perfectly sound when lunged. The owner only rides him twice a week and I work him four times a week. He has gone well for me until a few months ago.

                She was away for a month. I lunged and rode him very lightly during this time. This past week I had gone back to our regular routine and he was going well. She rode him yesterday for the first time and he started going poorly almost immediately. She is having a chiro out next week to check him out.

                When he was at his worst he would skip in the trot, suck back. At the canter he would switch behind and end up disunited. Watching her ride yesterday I came to the conclusion that it was her seat causing the problem.

                I suggested that she ride without stirrups for a while to learn to stretch down so that she may sit closer to the pommel instead of the back of the saddle. Once she is used to the longer leg she should also lengthen her stirrups.

                Do you think I am on the right track?
                Lots of gaited horses are ridden this way and lots of gaited horses have sore backs.

                Lengthening the sirrrups might be counter productive in that such will have a tendency to put more weight on the saddle when you probably want a bit less.

                Get the rider into a more forward seat. By definition this will get her out of the "chair position." Assuming proper saddle fit this will go a long way towards solving the problem.

                Best of luck.

                G.
                Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

                Comment

                • #9
                  I was thinking the same as Guilherme, a forward seat. How about some two-point to teach balance and bring her legs back? (assuming saddle is good and Chiro adjustment goes well).

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster
                    #10
                    She rides in a Passier dressage saddle that was fitted to this horse. I found that he was happier in a Wintec dressage that I borrowed from a boarder. Besides the chiropractor she is also planning to have a saddle fitter out. I still think that her position is the main cause. I did email her what my thoughts were but I haven't heard back. I probably hurt her feelings as she is quite sensitive.

                    I have tried to get her to do some two point and suggested pilates and yoga but she says her hips won't allow her.
                    Last edited by Cat Tap; Nov. 22, 2014, 04:34 PM. Reason: addition

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                    • #11
                      From my own personal experiences the last few weeks: my back has hurt. If I'm on my horse for too long (over an hour) if my back didn't hurt before getting on, my back starts to hurt and I get cranky. Shortly after that the horse gets cranky and, recently discovered, her back gets sore. I have no doubts my own screwed up back is making my poor horse's back hurt. Alas, this means I get to go visit the spine doctor, as while being in pain myself isn't fun, making my horse hurt is unacceptable. The saddle fits us both.

                      My back makes me ride badly some days. If I ride in a dressage saddle I'm even worse. So, I would say rider's problem is not so much the chair seat itself, but the hip and other issues that are making her ride in the chair seat. For example, when my back hurts I can't move my seat as freely as I would like to. Poor horse is carrying around my locked up back... can't be fun for her. I'm not generally a fan of pads, but I have found a thinline pad makes the situation better for her. If you have access to one try it out.

                      Also, on the yoga topic: try to find someone who does Iyengar yoga. I call it Yoga For Screwed Up Bodies. There's variations on every pose so if your body won't let you do it the proper way, there's another way. For example, I have to do downward dog with a rope secured to the wall around my hips because my arms are too weak to hold me up. All my weight was on the rope, but I was still able to get the good parts of the pose.
                      Pam's Pony Place

                      Pam's Pony Ponderings

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                      • #12
                        Maybe offer to video parts of her next lesson. I know for myself I never think anything is as bad as what I'm told until I see it. If she sees that her position is causing a problem she may be more willing to fix it. You don't have to tell her that's why your recording her, you planted the idea with your email, let her see it for herself.

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster
                          #13
                          We are on the right track. He definitely has some problems in his back. Chiro agreed that it is probably caused by saddle fit/ rider position. Next step is saddle fitter and chiro + ostiopath for rider. She agreed with my observations and opinion.Thanks for confirming my suspicions as I was a bit uncomfortable expressing my opinion.

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