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They have caught Saddam Hussein

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  • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dcm:
    Nitro's Mommy - My comment was in reference to how hard the Democrats and the liberals fought against some very qualified individuals who GW nominated for judgeships simply because they were conservative Christians. They fought hardest against non-white conservative Christians. If conservatives object to any non-white for any reason, they are labeled racist. Liberals and Democrats seem to set different sets of standards for conservative Christians than they do for themselves.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The thing to me that is scary to have mainly all conservative Christians in executive/judicial/legislative power is the lack of diversity. America is so diverse we NEED diverse representation to truly meet the needs of people. I live in the Bible Belt but there is still a good number of liberal Christians and Democrats, alongside the majority of conservative Republicans in our state. But thats the beauty of it, our differences make the world beautiful. I have many republican friends, who are great friends, we just don't discuss politics--our if we do, we take it light heartedly and stop when its time so no one gets hurt!

    "We'll raise up our glasses against evil forces, singing Whiskey for my men, beer for my horses." --some country song
    \"My insurance doesn\'t cover PMS.\" --10 things I hate about you

    Comment


    • dcm, did it occur to you that the Dems objected to these individuals NOT on ethnic or religious backgrounds, but on their stated positions and voting histories on things that ARE important to this country?

      Somewhere earlier on this thread, someone asked for the definition/difference between "liberal" and "conservative." I think the very words offer that definition. "Liberal" in the Webster's New World Dict. means, among other things "not restricted to the literal meaning, not strict," "tolerant of views differing from one's own, broad-minded, specifically, not orthodox or conventional," "favoring reform or progress, as in religion, education, etc., specifically favoring political reforms tending toward democracy and personal freedom for the individual, progressive."

      Whereas "conservative," from the same dictionary, means "tendingto preserve established traditions or institutions and to resist or oppose any changes in these," "moderate, cautious, safe." (Sorry, there just aren't as many meanings to this word!)

      From these two definitions, I take that conservatives want to maintain a more strict interpretation of things, be they law, religion, personal freedoms. Liberals, who I choose to align myself with, are more free-thinking, tend to allow people the freedom to be who they are as individuals, and don't try to limit those freedoms (broadly speaking, of course). When it comes to conservatives wanting to TAKE my personal freedoms and choices away from me, often for religious reasons even though I don't share those religious beliefs, or liberals who take a much more "live and let live" attitude, well, to me, there is no question....

      Laurie

      [This message was edited by lauriep on Dec. 15, 2003 at 11:35 AM.]
      Laurie

      Comment


      • Amen LaurieP!!!!

        "We'll raise up our glasses against evil forces, singing Whiskey for my men, beer for my horses." --some country song
        \"My insurance doesn\'t cover PMS.\" --10 things I hate about you

        Comment


        • I dont care what your religouse beliefes are, what race you are, what polical party you side with, where youlive, what your income is, what kind of car you drive...if you choose to hurt someone, or many people in anyway, then you need to face justice. If you kill many people because they do not agree with you then you need to face justice. if you threaten my homeland and my freedoms and my right to be ME, by showing "agression" then you need to face justice.
          It is my right as a citizen of this country to be who I am, not who someone else wants me to be. We all dont have to agree on everything, thats what makes this country so great.
          If you dont like the way this country is run then get up and run for yourself, maybe you can do a better job.

          B & B Sport Horses
          Albums updated! New pictures or Rudy and Taylor!

          http://community.webshots.com/user/ga_jumpr

          Dont put the cart before the horse, unless he knows how to push it of course. ~~ Pat Green
          Never Ride Faster Than Your Guardian Angel Can Fly
          Way Back Texas~04/20/90-09/17/08
          Green Alligator "Captain"

          Comment


          • I'm sorry, but the basic dictionary definitions of liberal and conservative don't accurately represent the difference between political conseratives and political liberals in the United States - AT ALL.

            I, believe it or not, have taken part in a lot of activism, usually on liberal issues and I consider myself a Republican. The most intolerant, closed-minded people I have ever met were liberals. They were intolerant of people with differing political beliefs, myself included. But I'm not going to go around and make statements that all liberals are close-minded.

            LaurieP's interpretation of what liberals and conservatives in government want is oversimplified and inaccurate, IMHO. Please explain how conservatives want to take away your personal freedoms.

            Seriously, read the history books and the development of conservative politics in the US. Conservatives favor fewer regulations, freer trade, and more freedom in business. They favor a smaller government with its people less heavily regulated. I'm sorry, but I really don't see where conservative politicians are taking away your personal freedoms more so than the democrats.

            And where on earth is all this religious talk coming from? The vast majority of our government - BOTH LIBERALS AND CONSERVATIVES are Christian. Now you can't be a Christian and serve in government? Or is just that if you are a conservative and CHristian, then you can't possibly put aside religious beliefs when making decisions, while liberal Christians can? What about other religions?

            JFK was a Catholic and he certainly was't conservative.

            I get really, really upset when I listen to people STEREOTYPE anyone or any group. All of the sudden it's just fine to bash conservatives, bash Christians, bash anyone in the majority. Every group is deserving on criticism, but one's criticism should come from actual experiences and not from stereotypes. Guess what I'm a conservative Republican. I am against the death penalty. I worked for nonprofits and work to support the rights of sexual minorities. You may be surprised what the other side is really like if people would put aside their differences and actually LISTEN to each other.

            The government is messed up, and it's not because there's a Republican in the Whitehouse. They're all a bunch of Republocrats, anyway.


            Comment


            • From lauriep<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>"tolerant of views differing from one's own, broad-minded, specifically, not orthodox or conventional," <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
              Not any political liberals I've ever met.

              From Nitro's Mommy<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The thing to me that is scary to have mainly all conservative Christians in executive/judicial/legislative power is the lack of diversity. America is so diverse we NEED diverse representation to truly meet the needs of people.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
              After 8 years of liberal Democrat rule, we are nowhere near having "mainly all conservative Christians" in those positions. Each elected administration appoints judicial positions. I won't argue this point with you any longer as you, Christian or not, are one of the ones that I fear will someday eliminate Christianity from public view because it "offends" someone.

              No more religious-related posts. It is not the point of this thread. The point is to celebrate, yes CELEBRATE, the capture of Saddam Hussein.

              ********
              I'm just the mom.

              Proud Member: Thoroughbred Clique, Danish Warmblood Clique, & Support Your Servicemen Clique

              Comment


              • I sure am darn happy they caught him. I don't believe you should ever say you aren't proud to be an American, especially since it's because you ARE American you are allowed to say those type of things.

                Mary B



                **Mary**

                Comment


                • Is bosh happy now atleast?


                  Starlady- nice to know there is more people from Israel on this BB.
                  Sound bit painful to sit like that for 2 weeks, I'm glad I was only 1 year old
                  ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
                  http://community.webshots.com/user/myliltaura

                  Comment


                  • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by deltawave: Saddam had EVERYTHING to do with the mass slaughter of HALF A MILLION of his own people. That's good (bad) enough for me!
                    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                    Deltawave, it might have been enough for me, too, but it was so far down the line in reasons we went to war, it was almost an afterthought. We went to war because Saddam was acquiring nuclear weapons, had WMD and was going to use them on us if we did not stop him first. The fact that he was a dispicable piece of humanity only started getting tossed into the mix when it polled better than those ever elusive WMD.

                    We had NO humanitarian policy with Iraq. If we wanted to get together with a bunch of other countries and agree to overthrow the existing govt and, oh yeah, have a plan for what came later rather than assuming we were going to be met by the flower throwing natives, I might have been able to sign on to that.

                    If we had worked the diplomacy angle on the basis of massive human rights violations, we might have been able to get somewhere. Instead, we lied, dissembled, prevaricated and pretty much made a mishmash of the situation. Thank God Saddam's military strength was even less than we anticipated.
                    *****
                    You will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training.

                    Comment


                    • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
                      Please explain how conservatives want to take away your personal freedoms.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                      Read the Patriot Act. I just don't get how someone can be conservative and support a bill that allows secret searches, or support a policy that allows an American citizen to be held for months wihout an attorney, without being charged of a crime, or without a trial. The Constitution I grew up with does not allow those things.

                      I am a patriot. I worship the Constitution. Sometimes I am at odds with my country's leaders or policies, and I will say so to anyone who asks. However, I still love my country - just as it's possible as a parent to still love and support a child even if you're lecturing her about this or that behavior. The two responsibilities are not at odds; indeed, it would be unloving and irresponsible to act any other way.

                      I am pleased that Hussein is caught and that he will be tried. I hope he will be tried in an international court, one with the utmost credibility around the world. And I hope it means that the insurgency in Iraq will weaken and end.

                      As for bringing the troops home, I really would like to see that, but my philosophy is, "You break it, you bought it." Until it really is established with a strong and peaceful new government, I believe it is our responsibilty to stay (though perhaps using more international troops). If we don't, conceivably the result could be even worse than Hussein - a Taliban-style government with feuding warlords and armed factions. We're still in Korea 50 years later - I'm hoping we'll do better here.
                      If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

                      Comment


                      • Midge, in my most humble opinion you have managed to state your case eloquently. You show a notable lack of hysteria and an even more notable amount of knowledge without hyped emotion. My hat is off to you. While our recently departed Prime Minister didn't give me much reason to respect him, what he did do was stay strongly opposed to invading a country for the wrong reasons.

                        http://community.webshots.com/user/ballyduff

                        "If you are going through hell, keep going." ~Churchill~
                        \"If you are going through hell, keep going.\" ~Churchill~

                        Comment


                        • The real difference between liberals and conservatives (at least lately in America): "Liberals want information; conservatives want ammunition."
                          (Al Franken)

                          SillyHorse
                          ~ You can do anything if you want it bad enough. That is why we see so many people who can fly. ~
                          Donald Trump - proven liar, cheat, traitor and sexual predator! Hillary Clinton won in 2016, but we have all lost.

                          Comment


                          • Thank you, Midge, for saying what I so strongly believe.

                            I AM glad they caught Saddam. We probably would have had to do something about him sooner or later.

                            The WAY we went about it and the WHY we went about it are what I have a problem with. And the way we have CONTINUED to thumb our noses at international opinion, rather than attempt to find a happy medium where we could get the support we so desperately need, and the other countries could live with our reasons for needing them.

                            Laurie
                            Laurie

                            Comment


                            • I supported the invasion of Iraq when we did it. Now I have questions. Where are those MWDs? Or does our intellegence just suck? Maybe now that Saddam has been captured, Iraqi's who were involved in the weapons programs may feel more comfortable about talking. If it turns out there really were no MWDs, I have a BIG problem with what has happened. I am glad the people of Iraq are free from Saddam. But I don't think there is much of a plan to help find a good democratic governement. We are withdrawing our commitment daily. While I think this has been an interesting exercise in understanding who our allies really are, we have made a lot of countries really nervous. How do the Saudis receive all this discussion of democracy in the Middle East? My guess is they don't love it.

                              Here is an interesting site for news I have been following lately.

                              http://www.alternet.org/
                              See those flying monkeys? They work for me.

                              Comment


                              • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by poltroon:
                                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
                                Please explain how conservatives want to take away your personal freedoms.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                Read the Patriot Act. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                I have read the patriot act and vehemently disagree with it if you must know.


                                Comment


                                • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nhwr:

                                  Here is an interesting site for news I have been following lately.

                                  http://www.alternet.org/<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                  Its nice to know people seek the truth through pure and unbiased reporting.

                                  ********
                                  I'm just the mom.

                                  Proud Member: Thoroughbred Clique, Danish Warmblood Clique, & Support Your Servicemen Clique

                                  Comment


                                  • The Patriot Act is a window into the mind of John Ashcroft. Mr Ashcroft makes J. Edgar Hoover look well adjusted, he is a paranoid and rabid ideolog. The Patriot Act compromises protection from unreasonable search and seizure and our right to privacy. It really does nothing to make us more secure. Do you really think we are better protected today from a terrorist attack than we were 4 years ago? I don't. But you gotta love the name. Question it and you are not patriotic



                                    dcm,

                                    fyi that is just one of the sources I read and/or listen to. I just finished listening to Rush while doing my barn chores. altnet is no less "pure and unbiased" than he is

                                    Don't be naive. There is no such thing as pure and unbiased news. You have to read and make up you own mind. (Boy, you sure plowed through that whole site quickly )
                                    See those flying monkeys? They work for me.

                                    Comment


                                    • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Quinn:
                                      Midge, in my most humble opinion you have managed to state your case eloquently. You show a notable lack of hysteria and an even more notable amount of knowledge without hyped emotion. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                      Ooohhh, ThankYou!! Please remember this moment when I am in a typographically incoherent rage because Pocket Trainer won't do Pro Bono work.
                                      *****
                                      You will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training.

                                      Comment


                                      • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nhwr:
                                        (Boy, you sure plowed through that whole site quickly )<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                        I'm doing catch-up paperwork here at work and my eyes go crossed if I do it too long. Ya'll provide much more interesting reading than journal batches. Plus, its fun to post and see what ya write back. Actually, in all seriousness, I do learn a lot from this.

                                        PS - Rush was entertaining as usual today, wasn't he? Do you also listen to Hannity? Almost as entertaining, but Rush just gives me that little giddy feeling when he gets on a roll!

                                        ********
                                        I'm just the mom.

                                        Proud Member: Thoroughbred Clique, Danish Warmblood Clique, & Support Your Servicemen Clique

                                        Comment


                                        • I am glad they got the SOB. I'm not going into the political issue but I do have two parents I am proud of. One is my mother who plowed the path for woman in the military. She was the first USN Commanding Master Chief. She was the first person to step on the JFK and sail aboard her during the Persian Golf War. My father retired as a captain in the USN and graduate of Annapolis. My father has gone into seas when no other captain in the US maritime fleat would. He made sure all our Jets had fuel to fly during many of the wars we have come into over the years. Christmas day he heads to the Persian golf to bring supplies to our troops and the people of Iraq.

                                          On the subject of the WMD, Having lived the past 10 years near a storage facility and been in it those hills, they are deceiving. They look normal to me but you can travel down 18 stories into the pit and over 300 ac. of storage. It looks totally normal. There is much of the land not yet explored and many labs and storage areas are just like the one I live near. It could be miles upon miles to find surprisingly it is not that hard to move such labs or storage places overnight. It is not hard to hide these weapons if you have the manpower and equipment.

                                          Not everyone agrees to us being there but we are entitled to our opinion, they were not. We could drive our cars and move up in life styles, they could not. We can go where we want and talk to whom we want, they could not. Be glad you can have this life and allowed to have it thanks to our government. Imagine waking up and having government officials kill your family while they sleep just because they saw you with a rebel force member, only asking directions. I do not think the backing would have been there if other countries did not have the proof. We did have some that did not join but the bottom line was they did business with this country and depended on keeping good relations with them.

                                          Look back to Yugoslavia. Millions of people dead because the world ignored their cry for help. When we finally did go in the massive amounts of weapons they had could have destroyed many neighboring countries. All to destroy a race.

                                          This was about the security of our country this time. Do you seriously think the news knows ALL? The government on many things only gives the news what they want to know. Not until the facts are in will we find out. The fact was that the Iraqi government violated the search for weapons imposed by the UN. They would not let the inspection be made which was a violation of the security clause we imposed in the first war. They could not provide proper documents and there was much speculation as to what they were up to. There many tense moments but the fact is they violated the treaty. There was much speculation as to why they needed some of the chemicals ordered from various other countries. You put the list together and you have the mixture of some massive problems. The fact is so far we have not found anything but that doesn’t mean they are not there. It is like a big archeological dig to find what they didn’t want us to see when we went in to inspect and they refused to let us inspect.

                                          Be glad you don’t half to live the life they did. Most of us on this board are woman and the bottom line is we would not be on this board talking like we are if we lived there.
                                          \"I\'m going to go see a horse about a man\" - Unknown

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