• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 2/8/18)
See more
See less

KY: sale of horse gone wrong; farm owner shot and killed

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    More then a couple of years

    Suul8tr

    He could have brought his family because he had no premeditated plans to shoot anyone.That does not mean he was not prepared to use deadly force when the time came.

    And why aren't LEOs trained how to shoot not to kill? That would be a useful skill.

    Comment


    • #62
      When I took my certification class for a CCW permit my instructor was a former LEO. One thing that he stressed for personal protection is that you should shoot to kill if protecting yourself. Don't try to wound the person. He also instructed to empty the gun, don't assume one shot did the job.

      I initially thought the same thing - why is he buying a horse at 11PM? The thing is - there are only a couple of people who know what actually happened, and at least one of them is not talking. He may actually be held to a different standard than an average citizen since he is a LEO.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by SGray View Post
        ahhhhh - but you can in Texas - the Castle Doctrine

        law passed within the last couple of years
        And that's the law in Kentucky.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by cloudyandcallie View Post
          And that's the law in Kentucky.
          michigan too... we also have the no retreat law.. I think that means we dont have to give them the opportunity to run....

          Comment


          • #65
            No fair! We don't get to shoot anybody.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by equinelaw View Post
              And why aren't LEOs trained how to shoot not to kill? That would be a useful skill.
              Because they are trained to use deadly force only if they think the assailant is going to kill them...and will still do so if only wounded.

              I wouldn't want to be the LEO to test that one out and see if it's true or not.

              And I can shoot but hate guns.

              Anyway, you bet there is more to this story....and somebody from the area has already posted it is not surprising anybody locally.
              When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

              The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

              Comment


              • #67
                Anyway, you bet there is more to this story....and somebody from the area has already posted it is not surprising anybody locally.[/QUOTE]

                I think they'd say that about most of us too.

                He was not wounded. She never fired a shot, he was not on duty or defending the peace. I do not think he is lying, I just think he got a free pass because he is LEO. I do not think that is fair. I think he of all people should have been trained to avoid such situations.

                I don't really think it funny because they LEOs here tell me to buy a gun to defend myself and now if I use it I have to make sure I shoot first and shoot the mostest?

                Used to be a crazy lady with a shotgun was good enough.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Another one here who thinks this all smells very fishy.
                  If thou hast a sorrow, tell it not to the arrow, tell it to thy saddlebow, and ride on, singing. -- King Alfred the Great

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    What kind of person takes his wife AND kid along to do ANYTHING at 11:45pm? Not that it is relevant to anything, but it's the first thing I noticed. And I think it's rather odd that he emptied 8 shots into the woman. Something definitely strange there...
                    Jessi Pizzurro ~~ Pennyroyal Stables
                    Racehorses, OTTBs ~~ 330 383 1281
                    Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway. -- John Wayne

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Castle Law or no Castle Law, if someone is on my property, especially in my house, I do not give them an interview to see what they are planning. Let's see...
                      "Are you a Ted Bundy or just here to steal the electronics?"

                      They initiated the situation, they get the rounds.

                      As far as this horse sale gone bad, it's not adding up.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        is this at least going to be presented to a Grand Jury?
                        Nothing says "I love you" like a tractor. (Clydejumper)

                        The reports states, “Elizabeth reported that she accidently put down this pony, ........, at the show.”

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          I could be wrong but I think the dead woman got the short end of the stick here.... Anything the nephew said is hearsay in court, right???

                          Perhaps the LEO was used by the nephew to get rid of auntie before she could get rid of him. Maybe she hadn't changed her will yet; could be he thought he'd get something (or everything) if she were dead..... Maybe he sold her personal mount without telling her--for some people on this board that's worth brandishing a gun! I know it sounds like a conspiracy theory but the LEO could have been set up. I know, I know--I watch too much TV. But weirder things have happened!

                          Lots of unanswered questions. I don't think the LEO knew what was happening--I think he thought it was just a pickup of a horse that morphed into something he didn't expect (but maybe the nephew knew better but withheld that information). If it sounds too disjointed to be true it generally is, and this story just sounds too disjointed to me....

                          I knew there was a reason I didn't like selling horses.....
                          "Don't blame Hogg or the other teens. The adults are supposed to know better. If only we could find any." ~Tom Nichols, professor of national security affairs at the Naval War College~

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by kcgold View Post
                            I live three miles from where this happened....yes, we're rural, but not third world - we do have 911 and cell service (we're only 30 miles from Lexington) .

                            And let's just say that the locals are not all that surprised, and we'll leave it at that.
                            What do you mean...The locals aren't at all surprised/???
                            Just curious.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Cherry View Post
                              Anything the nephew said is hearsay in court, right???
                              Depends. Hearsay is an out-of-court statement offered to prove the truth of the matter asserted therein. I'd argue that I was offering the aunt's threat to shoot the horse, not to prove she actually meant to shoot the poor beast, but to show her state of mind at the time she made the statement.
                              I'm not ignoring the rules. I'm interpreting the rules. Tamal, The Great British Baking Show

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                ok you guys

                                I do not know the woman that was shot. I do however, know some UL officers from Boone Co.'s sheriff's dept. The feedback I got was that if this man shot someone, it meant he truly DID fear for his life and the lives of his family members in the truck. These men do not draw and fire their guns lightly, nor would they do it in the presence of their teenaged daughter unless it was absolutely necessary. So enough of the the BS conspiracy theory. If you point a gun at someone and cock the trigger, then you deserve what you get. There are nut jobs everywhere, we've got Santa shooters and Aspen bombers, and I bet more than one of us has picked up or dropped off a horse in the wee hours of the night or morning, God knows I have. Apparently the woman's quarrel was with her nephew, she just went off on the wrong person. I grew up in a household of hunters with strict instructions regarding guns. Don't aim at anything you don't intend to kill. There was no reason for her to have a weapon, this man carries one every day. It's his job.

                                Comment


                                • #76
                                  Why does she need a reason on her property to carry a gun? Are guns illegal up there?

                                  He shot her 8 times. Damn right he was scared. 8 times. At her own barn. Maybe he should not have been there at all.

                                  I hope I never have to shoot anyone at my home, but I do not want them to shoot be either. Too OK corral. But without the OK.

                                  Comment


                                  • #77
                                    But you see the point is not that she had a gun but that she aimed it at him - you don't aim a gun at anyone you are not intending to kill - never - whether on your own property or otherwise. Pointing a gun at someone as a threat is never a good idea - either shoot them or don't - anyone LEO or military trained to use a firearm will react the same way the cop did in this instance.

                                    He wouldn't have thought about it - he wouldn't have had time to do anything other than react - that's what training is for - and it is the only reason these guys survive sometimes - you don't have time to second guess yourself in this sort of situation - you react according to your training or very likely you die.

                                    Comment


                                    • #78
                                      yes that is the point

                                      having a gun. Fine. Pointing it at someone and cocking the trigger, not fine unless you a) have a good reason, b) pull the trigger. And eight shots sound like a lot unless you consider how very quickly those eight shots happen. LEO, Military, if they have been trained properly, revert to training in the face of danger.

                                      Comment


                                      • #79
                                        Originally posted by equinelaw View Post
                                        No fair! We don't get to shoot anybody.
                                        We can but we have to drag them inside the house and make sure they (Law enforcement) know we thought our lives were in peril! But at my gun class they also said if you shoot, shoot to kill.
                                        Every mighty oak was once a nut that stood its ground.

                                        Proud Closet Canterer! Member Riders with Fibromyalgia clique.

                                        Comment


                                        • #80
                                          My gun class instructor said the same thing--shoot to kill. The targets we used were in
                                          the shape of a person with the center being just below the chest. At one time, shoot for the head was taught but after a couple of LEO's lost their lives aiming for the head and
                                          having their shots go high and the bad guy had time to do them in. This class also said
                                          to say "Stop or I'll shoot" before firing. Expect to take a trip to the station for questioning afterwards and call a lawyer according to the video, but still better than dead.

                                          Grew up in the city and my dad was told the same thing by our local police--shoot to kill.
                                          Basically, wait til they are in the house and if they fall backwards out the door, drag them in. That was decades ago--am sure they would easily see that the person had fallen
                                          other than where he lays when the police arrive.

                                          Like everyone I know who has a gun, we hope never to need it. Having lived alone for many years, I slept better knowing it was in the nightstand drawer.

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X