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KY: sale of horse gone wrong; farm owner shot and killed

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  • #41
    Agreed,I don't know what the situation was here. But having delt with mental illness in the family, there is help for those who accept it, but unless they are a threat (which has to be proven), you can't force treatment.

    And trying to convince some one who is mentally ill, and irrational to do some thing rational can be quite trying!

    Often times things escalate like this because they can not be forced into treatment untill some thing major happens.

    Here in the land of the free, you are free to be as crazy as you want untill you kill (or attempt to) yourself or some one else



    Originally posted by Lori B View Post
    Well, sounds like the woman waving the gun was one of the millions of untreated mentally ill. Or under-treated. And that's exactly how mental illness can end up being fatal.
    APPSOLUTE CHOCKLATE - Photo by Kathy Colman

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    • #42
      Hi All
      As a LEO...most all I know carry firearms off duty. Given what Little info was givin he was justified. I can say if someone sold me a horse and said " you gotta get this horse out by midnight" may raise a red flag. But again we don't know that was even the way it was put to the deputy. He may have been told something totally different (like a LEO has never been told a story...lol). I would think that in some way he thought he was getting a horse and the family was excited and went with him.
      I feel sorry for all involed...

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      • #43
        I have sympathy for the dead woman's family, as it sounds like she was mentally ill.

        But I think the police officer took the only option available, faced with a person acting aggressively and pointing a gun at him. My sympathies to the officer's family as well.

        It's just tragic all the way around.
        ...somewhere between the talent and the potato....

        Comment


        • #44
          Originally posted by findeight View Post
          Rural Ky at that...not talking across the river from Cincy or Louisville or downtown Lexington.

          Talking out in the country and I'd bet 911 was not any kind of option even if it was available and within cell service area...nearest Deputy probably part time and 15 miles away.

          Sounds like nobody locally has much of a problem with this one.

          I live three miles from where this happened....yes, we're rural, but not third world - we do have 911 and cell service (we're only 30 miles from Lexington) .

          And let's just say that the locals are not all that surprised, and we'll leave it at that.

          Comment


          • #45
            Well, sounds like the woman waving the gun was one of the millions of untreated mentally ill. Or under-treated.
            Or she was tweaking her head off on meth. That's how the story ends around here usually.

            Comment


            • #46
              There is no reason to assume this woman was mentally ill. She may have been, but calling her 'psycho', 'crazy', 'nuts', there's no reason at this point to assume mental illness had anything to do with it. If she wasn't diagnosed with something, didn't have a history (at 55, if she were ill, she most likely would have had some encounters with 'Services' at some point in her life already - most mental illnesses develop in young adulthood, not at 40 or 50 or 55, yes, I said most, not all).

              There are a large number of shooting tragedies in which no one is mentally ill. That isn't a requirement. Alcohol is far more often a factor in shootings, or just temper.

              People don't need to be drunk OR mentally ill to get into a tragic situation, lose their temper, or do something impulsive and violent. People seem to have to assume if someone does something like this they must be 'nuts'. In fact, that's not the case. People can get very angry, and do things for that reason alone.

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              • #47
                When this first hit "the wire", the story was a little different than what has been posted here.

                According to the initial story, the deputy was a friend of the nephew's and agreed to remove the horse from the aunt's property. The deputy went to the property unannounced. He should have knocked on the woman's door to let her know he was there, which according to the local "chatter", he didn't. The nephew did not accompany the deputy, when he pulled in with the trailer.

                I am sorry, but how was that woman to know this wasn't some horse thief? She does own horses herself after all.

                Furthermore, according to the "chatter" the deputy shot her eight times.
                ************************
                \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"

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                • #48
                  that whole 11:45 pm thing still sits wrong if all was on the up and up with the 'buyer'

                  and as a person that keeps horses at home - I would be out there with gun if someone pulled up with a trailer at midnight - though I would have my phone in other hand, having already dialed 911
                  Nothing says "I love you" like a tractor. (Clydejumper)

                  The reports states, “Elizabeth reported that she accidently put down this pony, ........, at the show.”

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                  • #49
                    They say if you are gonna shoot someone make sure there is only one version of the story when you are done.

                    I see no badge no cop car and no uniform then I do not see a police officer.

                    I actually think it stinks.

                    I do understand both sides, but without the LEO twist I think we would all be singing a different song.

                    "Horsewoman fatally shot in boarder dispute"! Midnight intruder says she started it. . . . .

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by equinelaw View Post
                      I see no badge no cop car and no uniform then I do not see a police officer.

                      I actually think it stinks.

                      I do understand both sides, but without the LEO twist I think we would all be singing a different song.

                      "Horsewoman fatally shot in boarder dispute"! Midnight intruder says she started it. . . . .
                      Actually it's the presence of the wife and child that makes the nephew and off-duty deputy's story credible for me. Not even my crazy relatives invite the fam along to a shoot-out. On purpose.

                      Otherwise, I'll grant you we'd have only the word of the shooter and the possible accomplice.
                      I'm not ignoring the rules. I'm interpreting the rules. Tamal, The Great British Baking Show

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Is nephew telling the truth

                        How can we be sure the nephew is telling the whole truth? Is it possible the aunt told him to be out by midnight and he decided to take what he believed to be his horse without her permission? What is the back story that lead up to her telling him to get out. NOW.
                        As stated above, the aunt may have had no way of knowing the guy was a deputy and only saw a theif trying to make off with one of her horses or someone trying to help her nephew pull a fast one. She can't tell her side of the story now; she's dead.

                        Kay

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                        • #52
                          Short follow up story on this today...

                          Investigation continuing but it appears the LEO had purchased the horse from the nephew but had not picked it up yet. Nephew was asked to leave and get the horse out by midnite or it would be shot. He relayed that to the deputy who came down after his shift to pick it up.

                          Least that is what the press says as of now.
                          When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                          The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            In the initial media interview with the nephew (which I can't find now), the nephew NEVER mentioned anything about his aunt having threatened to shoot the horse. You'd think that would have been the first thing he would have spoke about on camera.

                            Fishy, very fishy.
                            Last edited by luvmytbs; Jan. 2, 2009, 06:06 PM.
                            ************************
                            \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"

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                            • #54
                              Originally posted by luvmytbs View Post
                              In the initial media interview with the nephew (which I can't find now), the nephew NEVER mentioned anything about his aunt having threatened to shoot the horse. You'd think that would have been the first thing he would have apoke about on camera.

                              Fishy, very fishy.
                              Perhaps in the shock of the whole event the nephew didn't think to fill in the reporters on all the details of the situation. Just because the media doesn't initially report it, it doesn't mean it is a fabrication when the details emerge.
                              "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world." ~ Jack Layton

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                              • #55
                                Well, I hope it gets cleared up because right now I do not know who I can shoot and who I cannot.
                                I always thought it was "shoot em all and let god sort em out" but now a new rule has emerged.

                                Now you must ask if they are police before shooting them. Might as well be a hooker!

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by equinelaw View Post
                                  Well, I hope it gets cleared up because right now I do not know who I can shoot and who I cannot.
                                  I always thought it was "shoot em all and let god sort em out" but now a new rule has emerged.
                                  No, that's not actually the rule - just the opinion of our Attorney General.

                                  You're not actually allowed to use deadly force to protect property. But you can to protect your own life or that of another. So, on the facts as we know them, gun totin' auntie was in the wrong, deputy was in the right.
                                  I'm not ignoring the rules. I'm interpreting the rules. Tamal, The Great British Baking Show

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by pAin't_Misbehavin' View Post
                                    No, that's not actually the rule - just the opinion of our Attorney General.

                                    You're not actually allowed to use deadly force to protect property. But you can to protect your own life or that of another. So, on the facts as we know them, gun totin' auntie was in the wrong, deputy was in the right.
                                    And those are the facts as told every time I have to shoot someone dead. It only varies of they survive

                                    If its good enough for Texas its damn time we had it in SC too!

                                    I actually am somewhat confused. He wins because he shot first. If she had shot first she could have claimed bugler or something dangerous. I can't even spell criminal law stuff.

                                    Lets go sue someone. I can handle torts. I wonder her family is going sue him?

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Originally posted by equinelaw View Post
                                      And those are the facts as told every time I have to shoot someone dead. It only varies of they survive

                                      If its good enough for Texas its damn time we had it in SC too!

                                      I actually am somewhat confused. He wins because he shot first. If she had shot first she could have claimed bugler or something dangerous. I can't even spell criminal law stuff.

                                      Lets go sue someone. I can handle torts. I wonder her family is going sue him?
                                      Oh, I agree. And the fact that the shooter was a LEO who undoubtedly knew what he needed to say to make it a good shooting makes me suspect the story more than I would had it been two average citizens involved. But the shooter did bring his family, which to me suggests he didn't go there expecting to kill the lady.

                                      I also agree about those buglers - damned annoying, especially the ones who practice too early in the morning. I say we shoot them.

                                      I'm taking today off from suing people. But not to worry, I'll be back at it on Monday.
                                      I'm not ignoring the rules. I'm interpreting the rules. Tamal, The Great British Baking Show

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Kentucky is one of about 15 states that have enacted the "castle law" for deadly force in defense of your home or business.
                                        A land owner or home owner or barn owner can point a gun and order people off of her land and can shot them if they threaten her or her property.
                                        In Kentucky, deputy sheriff's have no authority outside of their own county, and so this deputy cannot claim that he was acting under color of law. See Ky. Rev. Stat. Ann. 70.00 et seq.
                                        After a deputy sheriff was convicted of ccw in another county, Ky enacted a law to allow deputies to carry their guns concealed state wide, but that doesn't give them the authority to enter another person's property at 11:45pm without the permission of the property owner.
                                        And his wife is a cop in a town. I'm sure she was carrying that night, and where was her cell phone? The minute the BO pulled out a gun, the wife should have called 911, exited the truck, and backed up her husband, that's correct police procedure.
                                        Did the deputy notify his sheriff that he was going to move this horse at 11:45pm?
                                        Did he notify the part time sheriff in the county in which he shot the BO that he would be picking up the horse and might need help?
                                        While alterforget name, couldn't get leo to help, uh, the alter who couldn't get a cop to go with her to get her horses, and also supernatural who couldn't get help, if a leo calls for help, he gets it, period. So this off duty, no jurisdiction cop, a civilian under these circumstances and in that county, could have gotten a uniformed deputy to go with him to get the horse.
                                        I'd like to know the entrance wounds, frontal or dorsal?
                                        I don't know all the facts and neither does anyone here. I think it is interesting though that people assume that the BO was either crazy or on drugs, what about the nephew and the leo?
                                        Let's see where the bullets entered and exited. Of course, the victim cannot tell us her side of the story, but the bullet wounds can. You can't change the track of the bullets.
                                        And why was the nephew getting evicted?
                                        And nope, it is not reasonable to sell or move a horse at 11:45pm without a uniformed deputy there on duty. I moved my friend's horse about 11pm with a uniformed deputy and his uniform car so that my friend would not be killed.
                                        Easy for those of us who can get cops to come help out, hard for civilians who cannot get help.
                                        The off duty dep. has a farm called Texas Star stables in another county.

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Originally posted by pAin't_Misbehavin' View Post
                                          No, that's not actually the rule - just the opinion of our Attorney General.

                                          You're not actually allowed to use deadly force to protect property. But you can to protect your own life or that of another. So, on the facts as we know them, gun totin' auntie was in the wrong, deputy was in the right.
                                          ahhhhh - but you can in Texas - the Castle Doctrine

                                          law passed within the last couple of years
                                          Nothing says "I love you" like a tractor. (Clydejumper)

                                          The reports states, “Elizabeth reported that she accidently put down this pony, ........, at the show.”

                                          Comment

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