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KY: sale of horse gone wrong; farm owner shot and killed

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  • #21
    Originally posted by Shire View Post
    I just saw this on the news tonight but it was so vague I didn't get the whole story. (which isn't unusual! The news writers are a bit iffy here!) It will be interesting to hear the rest of the story.... Let us know if you hear anything more.
    The news is iffy every where, not just where you are. Getting a whole accurate story would be nothing short of a miracle.


    C&C - it does not say anywhere that the deputy was acting as a deputy. He was simply there to pick up a horse he purchased is how I read it. The update seems to imply he was trying to do as she asked when she pointed the gun at him.

    Comment


    • #22
      Sounds to me like the lady wasn't all there in the head.

      It's sad, but if what the deputy says is true- I think he was pretty well justified.

      I hope his wife and daughter are OK, too. That had to be more than a little traumatic for them.
      "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

      My CANTER blog.

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      • #23
        Kentucky is a commonwealth, as is Virginia. Sheriff's Deputies in VA have jurisdiction in the entire state, not just the counties where they're employed. I imagine Kentucky is similar.

        Sheriff's Deputies are allowed to carry their weapons at all times, regardless of where they are or what they're doing. So, for him to have his weapon on him was completely normal.

        To say this man was trespassing is really grasping at straws, C&C. He was there at the request of the nephew, to pick up a horse. Crazy woman threatened him with a gun, so he shot to kill. I don't see the officer at fault here.
        Homeopathy claims water can cure you since it once held medicine. That's like saying you can get sustenance from an empty plate because it once held food.

        Comment


        • #24
          Crazy is crazy.
          She threatened to kill the horse her nephew sold if it didn't leave by midnight(heresay).

          The nephew told the buyer he had to get the horse out NOW...which he did, bringing his wife and daughter...kinda' stupid to bring the family along where somebody might be nuts!

          He loaded the horse and the woman has a pistol and cocks it, even when he offered to unload the horse.

          He shot the dangerous idiot! GOOD! Too many police are being killed due to paranoia in being sued and waiting a bit too long to act. He protected his wife and kid, he protected himself from someone pointing a pistol at him who then thumb-cocked it. That qualifies as a deadly threat.

          I carry a pistol (legally). I brought it one night when friends called me to rescue their friend's and their horses. Very abusive boyfriend, horses also threatened with death if she left him, and going near the property to get them while he was at his church (go figure that one) and we were quickly down the road. Stupid girl went back to him and my friend's retired horse stayed up with them.

          Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. You don't point guns at cops or innocent people...no matter how mad or psycho.
          "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by Trakehner View Post
            Crazy is crazy.
            She threatened to kill the horse her nephew sold if it didn't leave by midnight(heresay).
            Backed up by more than one witness. Having said that, if a BO says that she'll shoot my horse if it's not gone by midnight, I'll lead or ride it off the property if I can't find transport.

            The nephew told the buyer he had to get the horse out NOW...which he did, bringing his wife and daughter...kinda' stupid to bring the family along where somebody might be nuts!
            His wife is also a cop in a different jurisdiction. Maybe they couldn't find a sitter for the daughter on short notice? Also, none of the articles I read indicated that the deputy/purchaser knew he was walking into a potential domestic violence problem.

            He loaded the horse and the woman has a pistol and cocks it, even when he offered to unload the horse.
            The deputy tried to de-escalate the situation and actually did unload the horse and the nutso farm owner's nephew took control over it. Nutso farm owner still didn't back down.

            He shot the dangerous idiot! GOOD! Too many police are being killed due to paranoia in being sued and waiting a bit too long to act.
            IMO he waited too long, and was legally in the clear to use lethal force once nutso arrived with the gun.

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            • #26
              I see nothing in the articles that I have read which would indicate that the deputy was doing anything wrong.
              He was there to buy a horse which had been ordered off the property by midnight.
              He tried to defuse the situation by unloading the horse.
              Woman pointed a .22 at him and cocked it.
              Police officers are always trained to shoot to kill. There is no "shoot to wound". If you are going to shoot someone, you had damned well be prepared to kill them. Many departments require their officers to carry their weapons when off duty.

              I feel for the deputy and all others involved. It is a tragedy, but I think this deputy did the right thing.
              "Is it ignorance or apathy? Hey, I don't know and I don't care." ~Jimmy Buffett

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              • #27
                If someone has a gun pointed at me and says their going to kill me bet the farm if I have the chance I'm going to kill them first.
                Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

                Comment


                • #28
                  I would also venture to guess that the nephew (the seller) failed to mention that there would be a crazy armed woman on the property....because I seriously doubt that a LEO would walk into a situation like that w/o enlisting help.

                  In my experience, LE doesn't like to get into that kind of mess BEFORE the mess begins.

                  I'd also guess that had the guy called 911 at the moment he felt threatened, he'd be dead and we'd be reading about how idiot woman was shot and killed by cop wife and deputy husband is dead.

                  Pure speculation on my part...but it's a fun game to play...so my guess is that nephew called deputy...said the horse HAS to be out of here by midnight dude. Come and get it or we're going to shoot it. Deputy, liking horses (and not unlike what many of us would do) thought "Crap! better load up the famdamily and git that horse outta there safely!"

                  It is NOT default mode to think "Hey, I might get shot while I go move my horse"

                  Though perhaps it should be. Cripes.
                  A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

                  Might be a reason, never an excuse...

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Just saw another news item on this and...

                    Looks like buyer had already been down to the property and dealt with nephew (I guess) when he arranged to buy the horse. Yeah, buyers wife is also a cop but I'd bet they had no idea this was anything but a "get down and pick this horse up" tactic.

                    Boone County spokesman says it appears to be justifiable as once a gun is cocked while pointed at you by an assailent saying they will shoot, any military or law enforcement officer is trained to shoot in response. Investigation under way in co operation with the Nicholas County agencies but looks like his actions were proper.

                    They did have some film of horses on the property and they looked well fed enough although knee deep in mud. Nothing that screamed crazy so you wouldn't make it a family adventure to get a new horse. Who knew....
                    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by Curb Appeal View Post
                      Police officers are always trained to shoot to kill. There is no "shoot to wound". If you are going to shoot someone, you had damned well be prepared to kill them. Many departments require their officers to carry their weapons when off duty.
                      Amen to the above. My husband is a police officer...he always says that the most important thing in his job is coming home at the end of a shift. People often say, well, he's an officer in a "safe" township; unfortunately, a friend of his in a neighboring "safe" township was gunned down, leaving behind his wife and children.

                      He's also told me...if you are going to shoot someone, shoot to kill. It's all too often that someone shoots to wound, and then the person shot gets the gun away from them and kills them.

                      Finally--"People will spend years judging an action that took you seconds to decide" in regard to shooting someone. This deputy had seconds to decide whether to shoot someone that was threatening him and his family with a cocked, loaded gun. I am so glad that he and his family are all alive.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by KellyS View Post
                        I am so glad that he and his family are all alive.
                        AMEN!
                        "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by KellyS View Post
                          He's also told me...if you are going to shoot someone, shoot to kill. It's all too often that someone shoots to wound, and then the person shot gets the gun away from them and kills them.
                          A friend of mine who is a deputy sheriff has also told me this, as well as my SO, who isn't a LEO.

                          My mantra is that unless I'm target practicing or cleaning my guns, if I pick one of them up, I plan to shoot something/someone and I'm not shooting to maim.

                          Call me bloodthirsty, but guns are tools to be used when the need arises. I haven't yet seen the need to use mine on a human, and would never use one to "scare" anyone with.

                          If you take it out, be prepared to use it. Brandishing it about is just likely to get you shot from the person who doesn't see a need to wave theirs around.
                          Homeopathy claims water can cure you since it once held medicine. That's like saying you can get sustenance from an empty plate because it once held food.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Seems pretty normal to me. It's Kentucky (and before you flame me, look at my address. I've lived here for 60 years).

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by Trakehner View Post
                              Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
                              This could be a siggy line!
                              “Management is doing things right; leadership is doing the right things.” Peter Drucker

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by secretariat View Post
                                Seems pretty normal to me. It's Kentucky (and before you flame me, look at my address. I've lived here for 60 years).
                                Rural Ky at that...not talking across the river from Cincy or Louisville or downtown Lexington.

                                Talking out in the country and I'd bet 911 was not any kind of option even if it was available and within cell service area...nearest Deputy probably part time and 15 miles away.

                                Sounds like nobody locally has much of a problem with this one.
                                When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Sounds like a mess, and a good reason to resist being pressured into panic mode. That whole "gotta pick the horse up right now or it dies!!!!" reaction
                                  apparently cut off all rational thought in the nephew and the cop. I don't know if the nephew realized that his aunt was getting angry enough to pull a gun, but he clearly knew something was up. So he calls the cop to help him get the horse (why? for protection? because the cop's buying the horse?) and the cop brings his family (which was a bad call, no matter how you try to defend it) and it sounds like the sheer presence of strangers escalated the situation. I'm not blaming the cop for shooting the woman once she'd pulled a gun, but he showed very poor judgement in going along with the nephew. Plenty of people might have done the same thing, but you'd think as a cop he'd have the training and experience to think past the emotional 'gotta save the horse" reaction to the dangers of a domestic situation.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by arabhorse2 View Post
                                    Kentucky is a commonwealth, as is Virginia. Sheriff's Deputies in VA have jurisdiction in the entire state, not just the counties where they're employed. I imagine Kentucky is similar.

                                    Sheriff's Deputies are allowed to carry their weapons at all times, regardless of where they are or what they're doing. So, for him to have his weapon on him was completely normal.

                                    To say this man was trespassing is really grasping at straws, C&C. He was there at the request of the nephew, to pick up a horse. Crazy woman threatened him with a gun, so he shot to kill. I don't see the officer at fault here.
                                    Agreed. And I'm glad no one else was hurt, including the horse.
                                    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                                    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                                    -Rudyard Kipling

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by riverbell93 View Post
                                      Sounds like a mess, and a good reason to resist being pressured into panic mode. That whole "gotta pick the horse up right now or it dies!!!!" reaction
                                      apparently cut off all rational thought in the nephew and the cop. I don't know if the nephew realized that his aunt was getting angry enough to pull a gun, but he clearly knew something was up. So he calls the cop to help him get the horse (why? for protection? because the cop's buying the horse?) and the cop brings his family (which was a bad call, no matter how you try to defend it) and it sounds like the sheer presence of strangers escalated the situation. I'm not blaming the cop for shooting the woman once she'd pulled a gun, but he showed very poor judgement in going along with the nephew. Plenty of people might have done the same thing, but you'd think as a cop he'd have the training and experience to think past the emotional 'gotta save the horse" reaction to the dangers of a domestic situation.
                                      Um, read waaay too much into scenarios there, riverbell?

                                      I have a feeling the nephew told the officer that the horse needed to be picked up by midnight, and not much else.

                                      Trust me, any LEO who's been told, "We have to move the horse NOW, 'cause my aunt's crazy and has threatened to SHOOT the horse!" is going to come with backup, not his family.
                                      Homeopathy claims water can cure you since it once held medicine. That's like saying you can get sustenance from an empty plate because it once held food.

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by JohnDeere View Post
                                        This could be a siggy line!
                                        We use it all the time in law enforcement. Trust me, if someone had a gun on me, I'd shoot as soon as I could. Ditto a knife, to be honest. We are LEOs, we get to go a step up the force ladder. We don't lose fights. Has nothing to do with a horse or machoism or anything other than I want to live, I want my family (had I a family and had said family been with me) to live and not see me shot down. As a LEO, I say he did the correct thing.
                                        COTH's official mini-donk enabler

                                        "I am all for reaching out, but in some situations it needs to be done with a rolled up news paper." Alagirl

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Well, sounds like the woman waving the gun was one of the millions of untreated mentally ill. Or under-treated. And that's exactly how mental illness can end up being fatal.
                                          I tolerate all kinds of animal idiosyncrasies.
                                          I've found that I don't tolerate people idiosyncrasies as well. - Casey09

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