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Arena Fee's

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  • #21
    Originally posted by Skyis4ever View Post
    Thank you for all the replies! I would understand the fee if they're were a lot of lessons but it's primarily a barn for trail riders. The group lesson I assume splits the fee but the owner rides in it as well and when I asked some of the riders in the group about handling the lesson fee for a clinic they didn't know anything about it. It could be taken charged directly into what they pay for the lesson? If I took a private lesson with that trainer after the group I would be expected to pay the fee to the owner with my board, it would not be added to the lesson price.

    There is no one out when i do my lessons and there are only a few people that ride on a regular basis. No one else is affected because only that group takes lessons and whatever they pay is very minimal. A dollar or two. If I continue my lessons at my normal rate I'm looking at $80 plus a month. Do I ask for the ring to be dragged or watered before my lessons if I'm paying that? And honestly I can't justify paying that in my budget.
    This is a common practice even if it's not universal.

    Talk your BO/BM and see if you can negotiate a rate.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

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    • #22
      Originally posted by trubandloki View Post
      Not uncommon at all.

      The outside trainer has not overhead and the barn has tons. The outside trainer shows up, makes money using the facility, ties up the ring, does no maintenance, just walks away with their lesson money. the ring use fee covers that.
      This! Why should an outside trainer get to come in and use my, rather nice, facility for free?
      http://www.facebook.com/pages/Fentre...24774504235082

      http://fentressfieldsequestriancenter.com/

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      • #23
        Originally posted by quietann View Post
        ...

        The fees situation can get out of hand, though... at a former barn, the BO wanted anyone part leasing a horse from a boarder to pay her $25 for every ride. I thought that was not exactly OK.
        I chuckled when I read this. I used to let my trainer use my schoolmaster for lessons and I charged the riders $25 each time to use my horse. This was in addition to the lesson charge. One gal actually asked me to put that horse in full-time training and split that fee with her because she felt it would be cheaper than paying me per lesson. When I listed the total expenses for that horse (board, shoes, supplements, Legend, chiro, insurance, vet etc) she realized she was getting quite the bargain at $25/ride.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by atlatl View Post
          I chuckled when I read this. I used to let my trainer use my schoolmaster for lessons and I charged the riders $25 each time to use my horse. This was in addition to the lesson charge.
          Yes but this money would not have come to the horse's owner; it would have gone to the barn owner, who, assuming the leaser rode three times a week, would have picked up an extra $300/month.

          At current barn, if my trainer uses my horse in a lesson (which has only happened once or twice), I get $10 directly from the rider.
          You have to have experiences to gain experience.

          1998 Morgan mare Mythic Feronia "More Valley Girl Than Girl Scout!"

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          • #25
            Originally posted by mpsbarnmanager View Post
            This! Why should an outside trainer get to come in and use my, rather nice, facility for free?
            Why should your boarder have to pay extra to use the arena she already pays for? She's riding for the same amount of time and it isn't her fault you don't provide an in house trainer.
            http://weanieeventer.blogspot.com/

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            • #26
              Have your attorney or accountant meet you at someone else's office and try to conduct business using their facilities. If someone is conducting business and earning income on someone else's property it is certainly not unreasonable for the property owner to be compensated

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by enjoytheride View Post
                Why should your boarder have to pay extra to use the arena she already pays for? She's riding for the same amount of time and it isn't her fault you don't provide an in house trainer.
                Originally posted by Tuffytown View Post
                Have your attorney or accountant meet you at someone else's office and try to conduct business using their facilities. If someone is conducting business and earning income on someone else's property it is certainly not unreasonable for the property owner to be compensated
                Yup, that's it.
                The boarder can use the facilities she already pays for all she likes - but that doesn't mean the BO has to allow others to come into her facility to make money, without getting a cut of the money being made on their property, off their facilities. That's pretty self-explanatory.

                It's super nice when barn allows outside trainers in without charging a fee (my current one does, yay), but I've been at barns that take a cut in some way and always thought it reasonable.
                Proud Member Of The Lady Mafia

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                • #28
                  I fully expect to pay a ring fee if I'm trailering in to another farm for a lesson. It makes sense because I'm not a regular boarder there. The fee helps pay for wear and tear on the facility and to cover things like using the aisleway, picking up manure and getting rid of it, dragging the arena, etc.


                  I wouldn't want to board at a facility that charges a ring fee to boarders who are bringing in an outside trainer if that same facility does not have a resident trainer. The only circumstance under which I would is if the place did have a resident trainer and I had to pay a fee to bring in someone else instead. I think that would be fair.

                  But if the barn doesn't have a resident trainer, forget it. I wouldn't want to pay a ring fee.

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by quietann View Post
                    Yes but this money would not have come to the horse's owner; it would have gone to the barn owner, who, assuming the leaser rode three times a week, would have picked up an extra $300/month.

                    At current barn, if my trainer uses my horse in a lesson (which has only happened once or twice), I get $10 directly from the rider.
                    I agre with you point about t lease. However, in the latter example, you should have been compensated by the trainer as she was using your property (horse) to make mo0ney/ply her trade.
                    F O.B
                    Resident racing historian ~~~ Re-riders Clique
                    Founder of the Mighty Thoroughbred Clique

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                    • #30
                      The problem is it is usually the horse owner who has to pay for everything (regular board, the lesson, and the ring fee). Generally the idea is that the BO gets a bit of $ for the trainer getting to use the facility to give lessons, but rarely is it the trainer that pays.
                      As Peter, Paul, and Mary say, a dragon lives forever.

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                      • #31
                        Originally posted by CrowneDragon View Post
                        The problem is it is usually the horse owner who has to pay for everything (regular board, the lesson, and the ring fee). Generally the idea is that the BO gets a bit of $ for the trainer getting to use the facility to give lessons, but rarely is it the trainer that pays.
                        True, but that is the boarder's problem, as it were. Not BO's. BO wants a cut and may not particularly care if trainer pushes the cost off onto the student.

                        Perhaps the OP should negotiate with their trainer, go halfsies on the fee? After all, the trainer is using BO's facilities to make money. If OP can't afford both fee and lesson payment, trainer will make no money off the situation at all.
                        Proud Member Of The Lady Mafia

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                        • #32
                          $10-$15 is norm for my area depending on the facilities-for an outside trainer to teach a boarder. From what I understand $25+, is expected for any trailer ins.

                          This time of year, farm electric bills skyrocket. I can 100% agree with an added fee for winter indoor use - especially if the lesson is during a time the lights would not normally be on. Also, with the light fixtures I am familiar with (indoor) it is actually more expensive to keep turning them on and off-then to just leave them on. Actually did a 4 month ledger one year.

                          Also something to take into account-do you expect the ring to be private or semi private during this time?

                          Personally, a $10-$15 fee is to be expected. BO deserves to make some coffee $ for the hassle.

                          And it CAN be a hassle.

                          If you are taking 4+ lessons a month-ask if you can do a flat rate? But this works both ways. If you miss lessons-don't stiff the BO.
                          Flat rate means flat rate.
                          "The Friesian syndrome... a mix between Black Beauty disease and DQ Butterfly farting ailment." Alibi_18

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                          • #33
                            Originally posted by Tuffytown View Post
                            Have your attorney or accountant meet you at someone else's office and try to conduct business using their facilities. If someone is conducting business and earning income on someone else's property it is certainly not unreasonable for the property owner to be compensated
                            That's the situation where you're trailering in to meet the trainer at an arena. In which case it's 100% normal to get charged an arena use fee.

                            The situation in the OP is where you're already renting office space, and you have to pay an additional fee every time you have a professional meeting in that office. Which is why people think it's double-dipping

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                            • #34
                              Originally posted by arapaloosa_lady View Post
                              That's the situation where you're trailering in to meet the trainer at an arena. In which case it's 100% normal to get charged an arena use fee.

                              The situation in the OP is where you're already renting office space, and you have to pay an additional fee every time you have a professional meeting in that office. Which is why people think it's double-dipping
                              That's exactly why I'd refuse to board at a place that made boarders or trainers pay a ring fee for every lesson.

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                              • #35
                                I boarded at a few barns that allowed outside trainers, and they did not charge a lesson fee.

                                I think it's a silly thing to charge. Does the barn owner also charge a "farrier fee" or a "vet fee" when these professionals attend the property to provide services to boarders? After all, the farrier & vet don't have the overhead, don't have to pay for lights or maintenance on the barn, etc.
                                Jigga:
                                Why must you chastise my brilliant idea with facts and logic? **picks up toys (and wine) and goes home**

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                                • #36
                                  There was only one barn in suburban Boston with an Indoor that didn't charge a fee and that place felt a bit sketchy. All the nice places either didn't allow outside instructors at all or charged between $15 and $20 per lesson. Most even charged for training rides. At that point I threw my hands up and decided not to go Indoors last winter. I was NOT going to pay a ring fee for training rides. It ended up working out fine and we rode in the snow and took a couple months off when the weather got really bad.

                                  But I feel like as a boarder, I am paying to use the ring. I should have to pay twice just because somebody is talking to me while I ride.
                                  ==================
                                  Somehow my inner ten year old seems to have stolen my chequebook!

                                  http://reriderandpony.blogspot.com/

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                                  • #37
                                    I haven't boarded for years, but I used to - and where I boarded the BM was also the trainer and made their $$ off of a robust lesson program. In that situation, I can see charging a ring fee. It does seem fair, and a bit of a discouragement to bringing in outside trainers -- which would basically be taking $$ out of her pocket.

                                    However, if there is not an in-house trainer or lesson program, I think it's penny-wise and pound-foolish to charge boarders to use the ring for a lesson. They are supposed to be using the ring, that's one of the "perks" of boarding. So, the idea that there is more dragging, watering, lights, etc., does not hold up, IMHO.

                                    However -- perhaps it could be addressed in the boarding contract 1.) so you know going in whether you actually get to use the ring as part of your board, or if you are going to have to pay extra if you want to use it for a lesson; and/or 2.) to limit the use of outside trainers -- say, outline in the contract that outside trainers must have their own insurance, apply to the BM for training privileges (to keep out the crazies) and can teach no more than 4 lessons per month to legitimate boarders ... or something to that effect.

                                    I can see a barn owner / manager not wanting a trainer to actually launch a lesson program in their barn, to their boarders -- where it could get out of hand and there would be multiple lessons per day, really adding to wear-and-tear on the arena and restricting use for others.

                                    Perhaps the OP could have a sit-down and work out some sort of compromise that works for everyone.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      The OP has since edited her original post, but I'm confused: is the OP's BO expecting the OP to pay the ring fees, or the trainer who gives the OP lessons?

                                      I've heard of and find it very common to see the latter situation: someone said it earlier, but the trainer is essentially using the space for free. Plenty of BO's have per lesson ring fees for outside trainers coming in to teach. But the TRAINER pays those fees, not the one taking the lesson.

                                      I've never heard of the former situation, the one taking the lesson paying the ring fees, unless they are trailering in, which the OP is not. So if I were the OP, paying board, which includes use of the ring, and then having to pay an additional fee on top of that to take a lesson is ridiculous.

                                      But I can't tell which scenario the OP is in: sounds like she's being expected to pay, not the trainer?
                                      Do not spoil what you have by desiring what you have not. Remember that what you have now was once among the many things that you only hoped for.

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                                      • #39
                                        If you're already boarding there, you shouldn't have to be paying an arena fee during your lesson - that would be something the outside/resident trainer would be paying for.

                                        Did your lessons go up in price in order to cover the new implemented fee for the trainers? That is the only way I'm seeing how this would affect you personally.
                                        Originally posted by katarine
                                        I don't want your prayers, tiny cow.
                                        Originally posted by Pat9
                                        When it's time for a horse to go to a new person, that person will appear. It's pony magic.

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                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by Tuffytown View Post
                                          Have your attorney or accountant meet you at someone else's office and try to conduct business using their facilities. If someone is conducting business and earning income on someone else's property it is certainly not unreasonable for the property owner to be compensated
                                          This is nothing like the situation.

                                          It would be more like,if you rented a building to run your business and you hire an accountant or lawyer to come in and meet with you, and your landlord decides to charge an "office fee" to the accountant/lawyer for using the property.
                                          Jigga:
                                          Why must you chastise my brilliant idea with facts and logic? **picks up toys (and wine) and goes home**

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