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Parelli on RFD-TV

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  • #41
    And my main objection(s) is/are the relentless "only our stuff is any good" marketing AND the manifest attitude that ONLY PNH training is any good and the rest of us are abusers. I even know of a Parelli Certified Trainer who got his certificate yanked because he dared use a CONVENTIONAL non-Parelli method to accomplish something with a horse. Bleah. IT's just commonsense normal good horsemanship/horse sense re-packaged and they act like they've invented something new.

    Yes, it's very useful for green riders w/green horses: BUT GREEN RIDERS SHOULDN'T BE BUYING GREEN HORSES, and if Parelli were ethical, he'd discourage people from doing it. Fine towork with them if they've already got the horse/got the problems.... but I've never heard of him discouraging people from even getting themselves in this position of the "I want a horse. I've never ridden or trained. I think I'll buy a 2 year old... or a wild, black (Arabian) stallion" nonsense.

    Comment


    • #42
      i agree Sandy M. Pat Parelli learned from Ray Hunt, same as Tom Dorrence, Buck Brannaman, and countless others. I was relieved and glad to hear Buck Brannaman say, at his clinic i attended, that you don't need the "name brand" stuff to work with your horse. He was referring to the couple people who had the Parelli stuff. the only "brand name" type thing he suggested was that everyone get themselves a good saddle that fit them and thier horse perfectly. I am not a Parelli fan because i feel it is really "cultish" and is an end to itself, not a progressive learning tool to continue you/your horses education.

      Comment


      • #43
        I dont usually posts on these threads, I just let my horsemanship speak for itself.

        However, to the green on green note: It is my understanding that PNH does discourage green on green. Actually, it is one of Pat's favorite sayings, "green on green makes black & blue" or something to that effect.

        The PNH level system is assessed- it is the student's choice as to whether or not they 'officially' assess with an approved instructor.

        The first three levels are for students only, the horse already knows how to communicate- it is the student learning how to read his/her horse.

        They (PNH) also say to go through the first three levels with your easiest horse- because YOU, the human, will have a learning curve.

        Unfortunately, people usually seek the help of Parelli after they got in deep with a problem they cannot manage. Parell is not to blame for that.

        There are instructors available, and there are resources available to everyone who wants to use them. Yes, they are at a fee, just like lessons and instruction at a stable.

        I do agree, however, that any green person should be working with an experienced horseman/instructor/trainer. A homestudy program is no replacement for that, and should be complimentary to in-person instruction.
        My blog: Change of Pace - Retraining a standardbred via dressage

        Comment


        • #44
          Two Simp ...

          I use a bridle with a mecate when I ride western and it's used for leading your horse. Very bad idea to tie a horse with it. If something startles him, his mouth gets banged, your bridle gets broken and by-bye, horsie.

          Spazabians, Founder of the Owners of Spastic Arabians support group:

          If Parelli works for you, great. But in my experience, there are no spastic Arabians ... only spastic owners.
          __________________________
          "... if you think i'm MAD, today, of all days,
          the best day in ten years,
          you are SORELY MISTAKEN, MY LITTLE ANCHOVY."

          Comment


          • #45
            Oh goody the first Parelli thread of the year.

            Comment


            • #46
              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by twotrudoc:
              i agree Sandy M. Pat Parelli learned from Ray Hunt, same as Tom Dorrence, Buck Brannaman, and countless others. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

              Ray Hunt would be the first to tell you he learned from Tom Dorrance, not the other way around.
              __________________________
              "... if you think i'm MAD, today, of all days,
              the best day in ten years,
              you are SORELY MISTAKEN, MY LITTLE ANCHOVY."

              Comment


              • #47
                are you thinking of toms dad, Bill Dorrence? but either way, i know the two of them, Hunt and Dorrence, have learned a lot from each other. In my experiences with these fellas, the idea of using your aids correctly in time with your horses movement DID come from Bill Dorrence.

                Comment


                • #48
                  I've never heard Parelli discourage green on green, but I'm no expert on him, so perhaps he does. HOWEVER... his methods are best for starting young or spoiled horses, and most people who deliberately purchase such horse either (a) know what they are doing and do NOT need PNH; or (b) Guess what? are GREEN ON GREEN. So obviously, he's not discouraging them enough. And why would he. If someone actually BUYS a schoolmaster, and takes lessons from a qualified trainer, they are unlikely to need Mr. Parelli. My first two horses were greenies, because that was all I could afford, but I'd ridden about 10 years on schoolies before that purchase. I worked with a good trainer. Neither horses was particularly talented, but I found each homes and moved on. They were not, however, problem horses and learned good ground manners and went quietly under saddle in the arena and on the trail. My next horse was school master and I learned a lot more; the next was well started though no a "finished" horse and I had him 11 years; then I bought another greenie and I still have that horse. The last three were all successful eventers/dressage horses/h-J, I worked with good, but not BNT, always riding and handling my horse(s) myself - no trainer riding - and guess what, never needed PNH. Fine for me. Others who for whatever misguided reason go green on green, or have problem horses, or whatever may do well with Parelli. But again, I don't think he discourages green on green enough AND I think they'd do just as well with a well-qualified conventional trainer.

                  As a part of - but separate from - the whole PNH thing: I really do wonder how the "general public" has come to this idea that - as Parelli, Roberts, et al. promote themselves - before the NH people came along NO ONE was gentle or understanding of horses. Every single program I've seen (not including PNH copyrighted stuff which doesn't deal with the subject that I am aware) starts with a bunch of cowboys, roping, throwing and bucking out a horse. Geesh!!! I rode horses when I was a kid in school and NO ONE started a horse that way! We're talking 1940s and 1950s! Oh sure, some "uneddicated" cowboy out in the wilds of Nevada might buck out and abuse a horse (or might not!), and there are always "bad" trainers in any discipline, but you can read books on riding and training back to the beginning of the 20th century that talk about handling babies so they will be amenable; getting horses used to pads, surcingles, etc., lungeing, ground driving, and NONE of them advocate abuse. Is it just the "cowboy" image in America? Do people think that foxhunting types back at the turn of the century back in Old Virginny whipped, spurred and bucked out there youngsters? That this is how race horses are started? This image is just weird to me - but faced with it, no wonder non-horse people think Parelli, Roberts, et all. are doing something magical.

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    The lead end of the mecate can be configured (not sure if that's the right word to use in this instance or not) so when you tie with it it will not hurt the horse's mouth. Basically you double your reins around your horse's neck, take the lead end and feed it though the loops, tie to itself twice, then use the remainder to tie to whatever. If the horse pulls, the pressure is on his neck not his mouth. For more understandable directions, Clinton Anderson's site has them in a printable format on his website.

                    Nevermind, Two Simple beat me to it.
                    Ride Mustangs - An American Original!

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by twotrudoc:
                      are you thinking of toms dad, Bill Dorrence? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>They're actually brothers.

                      "The Dorrance brothers, Tom and Bill, were oldtime cowboys who had their own way of doing things, a way that appealed to Wolter."
                      http://www.livestockweekly.com/paper...03/whlbow3.asp

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        you took the words right out of my mouth sandy, again!! A lot of the NH methods come from (gasp!) classical dressage, ie: Vaquero horsemanship/Spanish Riding School. and it has been around for eons.

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          well, i'm a doof then! I really thought they were father and son!! EVEN after reading Bill Dorrences book, and hitting the Brannaman clinics! Oh well, live and learn!

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Two Simp ...

                            Thanks for the INSTRUCTIONS. Please look very carefully at the #7. The horse pulls back and puts pressure on his mouth and rips out the slobber leathers (or rips up his mouth). I guess you won't end up with a broken bridle, but it's still a bad idea.

                            This was advice from an honest-to-god cowboy who made his living on a ranch with an honest-to-god remuda. Lead, yes. Tie, no. Use hobbles or ground tie him. But I bow to your internet INSTRUCTIONS and what you've seen other cowboys do.
                            __________________________
                            "... if you think i'm MAD, today, of all days,
                            the best day in ten years,
                            you are SORELY MISTAKEN, MY LITTLE ANCHOVY."

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by twotrudoc:
                              well, i'm a doof then! I really thought they were father and son!! EVEN after reading Bill Dorrences book, and hitting the Brannaman clinics! Oh well, live and learn! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                              It sounds like you picked up the right ideas. And that's all that matters.

                              Tom Dorrance was Bill's younger brother. But Bill said they all learned from Tom, who was born prematurely and was a slight man. As Bill put it, maybe Tom had to learn a gentler way of working with horses because he was too small to do the rough stuff. Whatever the reason, Tom had the touch.

                              If you ever get a chance, get the video of Larry Mahan and Tom Dorrance working together. It is a real treat.
                              __________________________
                              "... if you think i'm MAD, today, of all days,
                              the best day in ten years,
                              you are SORELY MISTAKEN, MY LITTLE ANCHOVY."

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Oh goody the first Parelli thread of the year. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                LOL So far its sort of civilized. I havent read page 3 yet! LOL

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Oh good grief people...get OVER the mecate tying.

                                  People actually teach the horse how to tie before dangling him from a bit for 3 days while they go shopping.

                                  This is nothing new or even remotely scarey compared to what some 'educated' riders do with horses.

                                  Is it just me or does the word 'parelli' show up and every ounce of common sense goes running from the comments.

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    I am a western person, Two Simp. Whatever gave you impression that I'm not? I can wear a cowboy hat and nobody can say "all hat, no cattle."

                                    I like my mecate. But I don't tie with it. Even though with your INSTRUCTIONS, I suppose I could. I was advised not to years ago and I don't like to.

                                    I also don't ride with it in my back pocket, even though I know people who do. Nothing to do with safety. I just don't like it there. Differences in opinions and styles among "western" folks. Who knew???
                                    __________________________
                                    "... if you think i'm MAD, today, of all days,
                                    the best day in ten years,
                                    you are SORELY MISTAKEN, MY LITTLE ANCHOVY."

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Hi all,
                                      This is in response to the green on green issue I read above. My experience with Parelli has been a little different, so I'll share in order to shine a different light. I've spent many, many years riding and training. First in Pony Club, then on to dressage. I am an acclompished FEI dressage rider. I've had the good fortune to train with some of the best in the country. Recently I decided to start raising sport ponies and I just happened to attend a Parelli clinic. I decided to give him a try since I have never actually "broken" a horse. I started using his techniques on my 2 yr old gelding. I have learned a tremendous amount about communication, especially on ground work. Now later on after they are broken, I probably won't be using is riding methods, but I will still be using his communication techniques. To me it is almost like learning a different sport with horses. Its just another aspect of training. Yes it costs a lot of money, but so has my dressage training. It has been beneficial and tons of fun! Now I don't think its the end all be all, but its a great addition to my knowledge of horses and has only made me a better horseman.
                                      I would like to see them encourage helmets. That is certainly a question I will ask if I ever have the opportunity!
                                      So I believe the comment was that people either know what they are doing and don't need PNH or are Green on Green. My only point was that there is another scenario. I also know of several pony club kids that are learning PNH for fun. These are not green riders, they just love horses, and like learning more about them. Parelli puts in an easy format for them to learn at home.
                                      Anyways, I just thought I would share my experience.

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        i take it this has been discussed before??

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by twotrudoc:
                                          i take it this has been discussed before?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                          Do a search on Parelli, NH or anything related, grab a LARGE amount of ________ (adult beverage) and start reading.

                                          Cancel all dates for the next 3 weeks-it will take you that long.

                                          Comment

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