Lameness gurus: what do you see? New videos

[TheJenners]

Thanks for all these extra eyes, guys. Keep 'em coming, and I'll be sure to update tomorrow after the appt.

[WannabeDQ]

I see LF and second to try blocking...

[J-Lu]

I also thought L shoulder.

[VFT]

I also see left front, but I thought knee, and that she is compensating with the shoulder trying to minimize the impact on that knee. Let us know what the vet says.

[LarkspurCO]

The head bob is indicating left front, especially since it is worse when tracking left.

Of course it could be something else, or multiple things. That's the fun of lameness.

The absence of reaction to hoof testers does not rule out laminitis, by the way. My mare did not react at all, even as she was well on her way to founder. My vet-farrier podiatry team said the same -- negative to hoof tester is not definitive.

[alibi_18]

I would not discard the PSSM idea.
I know you wrote the horse's been fed a special diet for a year now but maybe something changed recently? More luxurious grass, new treats, apples/carrots, new supplement that contains more sugar than usual? Less fat in the diet? Less training?

Localised myopathy is a sign.

[Ambitious Kate]

Why has she had a special feed for a year now? I see L shoulder.

[HungarianHippo]

Am I pathetic to have checked back like 3 times this afternoon to see if there's a diagnosis?

[WannabeDQ]

Am I pathetic to have checked back like 3 times this afternoon to see if there's a diagnosis?

Nope, seeing as I just checked on it too...

[beowulf]

Am I pathetic to have checked back like 3 times this afternoon to see if there's a diagnosis?

Nope, seeing as I just checked on it too...

Same!!

[Tuffytown]

I thought RH at first, shortened reach and unequal altitude in hip. She also looked hollow and back sore. As she warmed and started to reach down it looked like left front. Domino affect of one thing hurting and compensating with other limbs makes them and the back sore.

[Bluey]

She was clearly protecting the LF, maybe shoulder as she was short there.
Once starting to the right her RH hock was moving oddly for a few strides, could not see it after that.

Some front lameness can come from the opposite hind leg, but I still think there is something directly in that LF.

She may have tweaked something and be fine in a few more days, but it is enough now to have it vetted, in case it is something important about to show up that a vet can catch now.

Generally shoulder injuries can seem like a broken leg, they are so obvious and be fine in a few days.
She is not that sore to be the shoulder, but she was short from the shoulder, so who knows.

I don't think in cases like these you can even find two vets with the same opinion, better keep hunting for more clues.

[TheJenners]

OK, vet definitely saw hind in the video, and it was more pronounced today along with a slightly roached mid-back on the lunge. Negative to any palpation anywhere externally.

She still had digital pulse, and was negative on hoof testers all around. He was perplexed by that, but said he had to shelve that and concentrate on the obvious hind end issue. He did say she was possibly coming off a laminitic episode, that her feet are hard now but may still have some inflammation inside. She flexed negative, and moved evenly while trotting straight. He didn't think she was a Cushings candidate. Definitely not neuro.

He blocked her, starting low, no real change.

Then she friggin exploded on the lunge, the same bolt thing she had been doing under saddle, only this time only a nylon halter and she almost got away from me. I almost went skiing on my face, and actually felt some of the muscle fibers in my quads shredding and got burned through gloves. She did it twice on the grass, then again in the arena. Same as under saddle: head flies up, eyes go wide and BOOM. It looks like a spook except as soon as she is stopped, she is calm. It felt undersaddle like someone came up behind her and cracked her across the butt with a whip, except again, as soon as she's stopped, she is calm and sweet like nothing happened. This was one of the weird things I held back.

He thinks maybe internal pain somewhere, not actually a limb. He palpated her and ultrasounded, nothing showed up but she was very unhappy about him getting close to her ovaries, lots of squirming. So we're going to do two weeks of Regumate, see what happens.

I asked him flat out, "if she were a gelding, what would you do?" He honestly answered: "I would say that I am no where close to figuring this out." And this is a GOOD vet.

So boo.

[Simkie]

I hate to bring this up, and I really hope that this is not on the table but go scan through my big long thread here. Lots of what you're talking about in this thread sounds VERY familiar.

[TheJenners]

OK, I read through. She isn't uneven or neuro though is the thing, no issues picking up back feet. But I'll entertain it if this doesn't work. If this doesn't work, I suspect we'll be hauling to the clinic for more than one vet to consult on. This practice has, I think, five large animal vets working for it, including an internalist.

[Tuffytown]

Is this a Mt Vernon vet?

Not the same issue but we have been chasing some discomfort-lameness on a 23 yo with known issues that we handled with joint supplements etc to keep him in light riding. Lots of new symptoms of discomfort including sensitive painful flanks recently appeared. Came down to spring grass accelerated hoof growth and really rapid toe growth on the hinds causing back and hamstring soreness. A new set of hind shoes with the toe and breakover taken way back an there was extreme improvement the next day. All that just to commiserate on how tough some of these lameness issues are to puzzle through. Hopefully the regimate will clarify this for you.

[beowulf]

It could be kidding spine. A lot if the symptoms fit. Including the explosions.

[Bluey]

It could be kidding spine. A lot if the symptoms fit. Including the explosions.

Kissing spines is one more differential diagnosis, but also remember there may be more than one reason there, she may be off on several places and that may have one or several causes.

After hearing about the explosions, it makes sense to think that those alone could be caused by one problem, but also cause other problems, if she overstretched something or twisted something else during those.

One zebra here, we had one younger OTTB mare that one day started having the occasional explosion.
Out of the blue she would flip herself.
The vet decided she had something wrong with her brain, maybe a touch of sleeping sickness and that was the reason.

Until you have a firm diagnosis, it is best to keep all options open, even the further out ones.

I hope you find an answer soon.

[TheJenners]

We are keeping all options open, though I think it's safe to say that while it appears to be that hing leg, it's probably not a joint.

She did the explosion on the lunge yesterday, which I think would rule out kissing spine? No tack or person on her back. I don't know anything about it. Also, she's been massaged three times since this started and the vet palpated, would something not have shown up in either of those scenarios?

As for feet, which is what I had been thinking, she started this on the 12th and had her feet done on the 19th, and continued with the same behavior. To be fair, because she's such a steady horse, I had not been riding her very much and she did the behavior the first time to a lesson student at the barn (the BM uses her maybe once a month), but then did it to me the day her feet were done. I packed her feet, left her alone for a few days, tried riding again and she was tense and short striding (I think the short striding was because of the tenseness and head in the air, not true short striding), booted her and saw improvement, bought her boots and left her alone, rode her again and she was good, then she bolted again on the first day of a clinic. Buted her and was able to ride in the clinic the next day like everything is normal. (This was a low stress clinic)

For some reason I'm not getting my notifications, so if I don't get back right away to answer, I haven't dropped the thread.

ETA: yes, this is a MVVH vet.

[beowulf]

You can't really DX kissing spine by palpitation. Ive seen a lot of TBs DX with kissing spine, especially OTTBs. One at my barn has the "ligament" version.

They DX'd by X-ray and ultrasound. He had hind end lameness and explosions US and on the lunge line.