Needed: A Good Book on Selecting Horses for Inexperienced Riders

[dressagetraks]

A tenor hailed me as I was leaving choir tonight. He wanted to ask me a question. I don't know him well, but everybody is aware of the giant H on my chest, so it's not odd to get random horse questions from the unhorsey.

This one was different, not mere curiosity. He went on about 15 minutes, kept me standing by my car in the parking lot. He was so circumspect that it took me forever to figure out the exact point he wanted equine info on. It was like the hypercareful alter threads. He said at the end that there are legal issues involved.

Disclaimer: I DID say if there are legal issues, best involve a lawyer. He just wanted some recommendations for educational reading on the side while this unfolds.

His root question seemed to take off from the fact that some horses test the rider more than others, right? I agreed, definitely. So if an experienced and an inexperienced rider ride out together, does who is on the more testing horse need to be selected carefully? Yes, they do. I said this was important for anybody before letting others ride their horses. He offered the situation of a dude ranch or a lesson stable. I said the trainer/BO ought to match up carefully. Of course, people bear responsibility for how they present themselves, but some people flat lie or exaggerate their experience, and lots of people honestly don't realize how ignorant they are. So the matches should have some care taken, especially with an unfamiliar rider. Trainer/BO/wrangler should keep an eye on new riders and assess skills quickly himself vs. those claimed and adjust mount if needed. I did say folks can get scared/hurt even if all this is done correctly, of course. Emphasized that horses are not 100% predictable and are prey animals.

He at the end wanted a good book I could refer him to on the subject of matching up horse personality vs. rider ability and experience level.

So what say you, COTH? Know of a good one or at least with good chapters on that? I'm not sure if I've run across a whole book on it, but there probably is one out there.

Again, I DID and will again emphasize that intricate matters, which this obviously is, should be handled by an attorney and that a book isn't a do-it-yourself manual to make yourself an expert. He wants to read up on this anyway while the kettle of fish boils.

[Isabeau Z Solace]

Yikes!! I would tell him that no such book exists. What he most likely will stumble upon is some kind of "Horseanality" (Parelli) type stuff. Or perhaps some Linda Kohanov gobbedly gook.

I don't believe that there as been anything remotely like scientific research done on matching horse and rider. Anyone who claims to have written a book "knowing how," will, at best, be opening the door for riders to thoughtfully consider their own psychology, issues, and motivations. And then consider how the horse in front of them is going to respond.

Personally, I have been witness to some pretty darned inexperienced people getting along just fine with their gnarly, ill mannered or green horses. I have also witnessed people with years of "education," wreck a perfectly straight forward horse.

I would tell your friend that he might as well look for a book on what religion would best suit a person.

[Zuri]

Wow. Since his needs/interests are pretty specific, I don't know if a book is going to address them specifically. Perhaps his best bet is to talk to people like you, trainers, pros, riders, BO who have the experience with helping riders choose the best mounts for them.

[Paks]

Sounds like he is looking for a book his lawyer could reference in a trial instead of an expert witness.

[Guilherme]

I agree that no such book exists (with possible exception of some of the Parelli materials and I'm not sure we need to go there).

He'd be better off to go with you to a barn with a good manager and buy an hour of their time to ask questions about how the process works.

G.

[merrygoround]

Some things are beyond categorical explanation.

[In_]

This situation sounds odd - and one of those yellow/orange flag moments. BUT - for the question by itself - your tenor might consider publications that are catered to riding instructors.

For example - CHA's Composite Horsemanship manual - or the literature associate with the Trail Guide Certification OR Seasonal Equestrian Staff certification.

[Lori B]

He sounds like one of those people who have a hard time understanding that some questions don't have mathematically precise answers. And that most trail string folks mainly want their lives to be low stress, and they know that many folks overstate their experience / abilities.

[HungarianHippo]

and then, having read the books, articles, etc, there's the more important issue of whether a novice rider has the ability to recognize the qualities in the horse they've selected / were assigned, and to what extent they're actually causing the behavior in question. A horse that rubs his rider's knee on a tree may be a rank SOB doing it on purpose-- or he may be drifting sideways because the rider is unbalanced, looking at the tree in question and otherwise influencing his horse to move over.
The tenor seems to imagine the horse's behavior and personality are fixed no matter who's on them or what's going on around them. That said, if it's evidence he seeks, his attorney could probably subpeona the stable's records on other accidents, insurance claims, etc.

[Sparrowette]

http://www.westernhorseman.com/secti...him-in-the-eye

As I was rolling around the web the other day, I ran into this WH article. The guy got his early training with Ray Hunt and worked at the King ranch, so he isn't a slouch. Seems the info is geared more to horsemen/women than lawyers, though, so don't know it will be any help. Just putting it out there.

ETA.. Every horse/rider combo is different. The "testing" horse may think he can get it over one rider, and then not another, and who knows why? For the horse it could be the wind, the horse next door, or the side of the stall he woke up on. Same for people.

Most municipalities have some sort of statute governing equines. Found this:

http://www.equinelawsafety.org/

[Pocket Pony]

There's a book called "Ride the Right Horse" that might be a little bit useful. It talks about different horse personalities and different people personalities and who may or may not get along. But I don't know that there's necessarily anything there that an experienced horseman who also has a good feel of people and can see through the BS wouldn't be able to discern.

[dressagetraks]

Thanks for the links/suggestions. I'm building a list - gave him three this morning I found picking through Amazon. A basic equine liability handbook, one on safe instruction written by an instructor who is also a lawyer (with sections on horse selection and also a whole section on getting through a lawsuit), and one on trail riding with chapters on picking horses and on what to do in unexpected situations. I'll take him more on Wednesday. He liked the look of the first three, said I was "going to make someone very happy," and said he'd buy all of them this afternoon.

And I did once again emphasize this is NOT something you can get full understanding of from a book, is quite complicated with myriad variables, and that there REALLY needs to be a good lawyer involved. It is a weird situation, and he was clearly trying not to give details.

He did say he'd give me the horsey books when all is over.

[Dispatcher]

There are no books like that. There are books that address conformation and those would be helpful. The only way to become experienced is to be with experienced horse care people.

I'm not talking about "trainers" that say they were successful at showing or such. I'm talking about honest to goodness horse people that are not out to make their living off of you. Few and far between nowadays. Success in the show ring, or any other discipline does not a horseman make. Unless all you want to do is compete and not see the whole picture of horses and horse care.

As I've said before, my, my, how times have changed. There is and still should be a population of people who want to ride well, care for horses well. Real riders, not just those that want to buy their way into ribbons.

Sorry, I have become a bit jaded over the years

[dressagetraks]

Update as of last night: He's got the first couple of books from Amazon already, must have paid extra postage since I only gave them to him Sunday, or maybe he has the Prime service. I gave him more titles/links last night. He's reading up. He did say it was looking like a complicated issue - which I'd told him up front, but a lot of people need to see something in black in white. He is wondering obviously about liability issues, and since I have next to no details, I'm not going to play judge and jury in advance. Not impossible that there really was negligence on whomever's part, but also not impossible that he (or whoever is the rider, but if not him, I think it's in his immediate family; he is personally researching this with too much investment for just "a friend") contributed by misrepresentation of credentials, possibly without realizing how much the rider didn't know. I have known the man for a few years in music circles, and I have heard many speak of him who know him better; he does not have a reputation as an irresponsible sue-happy philosophy guy. And I have at all points advised him that horses are prey animals and that they are never 100% predictable nor risk free, even when all is done perfectly. The liability books I'm sure emphasize that, too, being written by BO's/trainers. Stuff does happen.

Dispatcher, I agree with your points, but this man isn't looking to buy his way into ribbons or become an instant horseman. He's wondering if mount selection was incorrect or not within a very specific context of something (I don't know what) happening in a "one-ride" setting for the rare rider, like a trail ride rent-a-place or a dude ranch, to use his own examples.

[skykingismybaby1]

http://www.equinelawsafety.org/equine/nj_equ.htm

Here is the New Jersey Equine Liability Law. It states (in a nut shell) that there are inherent risks that cannot be mitigated by an operator/barn owner/manager and that liability is assumed by the rider/client.

[dressagetraks]

Yeah, our state has one of those, too. That was pointed out. But I know that they do not cover every single thing and make a barn bulletproof against a judgment. How/if something is or isn't covered is a question for the legal system. I'm sure the liability book written by the instructor/lawyer with a specific section on going through lawsuits talks about those "inherent risk" laws, too. For all I know, reading about those in detail from a correctly insured/disclaimer BO side will make him and/or his lawyer realize that he doesn't have a valid case. Assuming that he doesn't. Since I don't know what happened, hard to say.

But to use an extreme example, I imagine that if your child went on a public trail ride given by a place new to the business using their own horses that they had around before going into trail riding, and Susie said she had "a little experience" (i.e. had ridden a few times in her life) but obviously didn't even know how to adjust stirrups or handle the reins, and if they still headed out after watching her get on with her mounted on El Fiero, their green-broke young stallion, and she was dumped on the ride and hurt, the inherent risk law probably isn't going to help them.

[OveroHunter]

Yikes that sounds like a mess. I wonder how a court could determine whether or not a horse was suitable for a beginner rider. I'm sure they could in an extreme example like the one you gave above, but then again good riders fall off saintly horses all the time for one reason or another.

[Lori B]

Unless something really obviously misleading and intentionally inappropriate was done, I doubt this guy's situation is an appropriate one to address with a lawsuit. People go around with so little experience / exposure to animals generally, they truly fail to grasp that animals are animals, and if you feel unprepared to take the risk of a tumble, you shouldn't get on, because no one can guarantee an uneventful experience. You can plan for it, you can do your best, but even the quietest trail mount is one big bad horsefly bite away from a rodeo moment.

[dressagetraks]

That's my general assessment in most cases, too. But I don't know the specifics on this one. I figure education on the complicated aspects of it from legitimate horse-expert authors can't hurt, and in fact that is what he's asking for. He did come across attitude wise as actually asking for information, not just looking for a rubber stamp, "Yep, sue em." Which I've never given him. I've said in every conversation so far that they can never be 100% predictable.

But there is a problem with "this is how this situation usually is" statistics. There are exceptions, even if less common. When I was 16, just a few months after getting my driver's license, I was in a car wreck. The man I hit was in his 50s, successful businessman. That, to him, was the entire matter, tied up with a bow. I was a 16-year-old kid with a new license. Ergo, it MUST be my fault. Ask any insurance company which is the reckless driver. Seriously, I heard him make this exact argument in court to a judge. Twice.

We went through two trials, one where the city sued him for damages (after I hit him, he lost control, though I didn't - as he was speeding and I wasn't - and he skittered off to one side and took out a traffic light post) and the second one where Mom sued him as I was a minor and couldn't, for damages on our vehicle. He lost both trials. And he still made the same argument to the second judge even after losing the first decision with the city.

You could tell that he truly believed it. Obviously, the 16-year-old new license holder is at fault. Frequently, even usually, I'd agree. Only in that case, I wasn't. I was glad that a whole string of people from the responding officer up through two judges were willing to listen to me and weren't quite as quick to that conclusion as he was.