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Spin off topic- Barn Hours?

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  • #61
    Just IMHO.... it is your barn and you can regain control - but you need to be tough.

    for the messy kids - charge them. For everything. Send them home with a bill for clean up fees, etc - their parents will get the message. Post your barn rules and send a letter home to each parent as well, therefore when you start charging extra fees this won't be a surprise. If the parents don't care about the extra fees atleast then you can hire someone else to check up on things and keep the barn clean with the extra revenue you're bringing in!

    At my barn, nothing other than leather is allowed in the tack rooms. Period. No saddle pads, etc. They must all be in your trunk and everyone respects this rule. It has been known on occasion, for the trainer to not teach someone who has disobeyed the rules. Even something as small as putting your paddock boots away.

    For closing the barn mid-day - seems rather unnecessary and nearly impossible to pull off. What if a lesson runs late, or a horse is super sweaty, etc. Once you make an exception to allow one to stay past 12:30 - all bets are off.

    I would never board at a barn that closed midday or on mondays. But I do respect the 9PM closing rule at my barn, and I work crazy hours but I make it work.

    Comment


    • #62
      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jsalem:
      Those who demand 24/7 access to their "kids" need to have their own barn. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

      I don't think anyone on this thread (or maybe I missed it) is expecting access 24/7 - it has consistently been "reasonable business hours." Most of us do recognize it's a business - but it's a service business for the boarders. But, like many have echoed, it's your place
      *Faune D'Helby*

      Comment


      • #63
        Jumping in late...

        Personally, I would have an issue with the barn being closed in the afternoon, since that is prime riding time for me when the little barn rat is at kindergarten. However, I see no problem with setting a closing time at 9:00pm. It starts to get dark around then and is the perfect time to do a evening walk through and final clean up.

        As far as messy boarders, well I can't even really understand that. My old trainer had a "my barn/ my rules" motto. She would confiscate EVERYTHING and lock it up in her tack trunk. One kid had to take a lesson bareback because she left her saddle out. No bridle? Well, you either had to do your lesson in a halter and lead rope or find a kind soul to borrow you one. Imagine that you are leaving for Devon and you have no girth. Oh well.

        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> If the kids are running wild, put them to work. I did. They sure do at Briarwood! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

        Pat- why doesn't that surprise me with Jack and Katie?

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #64
          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">However, I see no problem with setting a closing time at 9:00pm. It starts to get dark around then and is the perfect time to do a evening walk through and final clean up. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

          Ah, but see, I sometimes come to the barn at 8am. I don't want to do a "final walk thru/clean up" at 9pm! That's an 11 hour day! Those aren't reasonable business hours.
          http://patchworkfarmga.com

          Comment


          • #65
            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I'm shocked at the number of folks who expect to be able to show up before dawn or after dark. What they don't understand is that whenever a client is at the barn, there is the expectation of service.... I want to do a good job, but how can I be "on staff" 14 or more hours per day?... See, a barn manager's job isn't done until all the horses are tucked in bed with hay and water and the lights are off. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
            If I were a client showing up "late" (at 8 p.m. or something), I wouldn't expect the barn manager to still be there if the barn manager starts her day at 6 a.m. That *is* crazy. If there was a huge issue when I got there to ride (it looked like someone's horse was down colicking or someone's horse on night turn-out was three-legged lame by the gate), I'd take the liberty of calling the barn manager at home to see if she wanted me to call the vet (or she'd call herself), but, beyond that, *I* certainly wouldn't expect anyone to be around at 8 p.m., dragging the ring or sitting around to answer questions. And I agree with Duffy about the late people having to be extra careful to turn out lights and clean up after themselves. While leaving a mess is never a good thing, I think it is particularly rude when the "messer" is messing up a barn that has been left clean at the end of the day and is expected to be clean in the morning when it opens.

            As to being uncomfortable having folks at the barn when you are not there, that's a tough issue. If you have a range of clients - both kids and working professionals - you basically would need to LIVE at the barn, then, in order to have hours to accomodate all. . . . No?

            Comment


            • #66
              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Ah, but see, I sometimes come to the barn at 8am. I don't want to do a "final walk thru/clean up" at 9pm! That's an 11 hour day! Those aren't reasonable business hours. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

              Oh - you were posting when I was posting. Hmmmmm. If I were a working woman, riding at your barn, I likely couldn't get there before about 6:30 or 7 p.m., right? (I'd get off work at 6 p.m., drive to the barn, change, be in riding clothes at 6:30 or 7.) I'd be tacked up by 7:20 (assuming my horse is out on night turn-out, so I'd go get him, bring him in, clean him off, tack him up). I'd ride 'til 8:00, cool out, be off by 8:15. I'd hose down, clean off, re-fly spray, and have him back out by 8:40. I'd clean up after myself, put my stuff away, and be out the door by 9 p.m. I don't know that I could do it any other way, right? (And, again, I'm saying this as a woman who does NOT do it that way. I (a) have a bizarre schedule and (b) don't go to the barn much at all in the evenings these days.)

              But, if I did the above, would you feel like you needed to be there until I was done (at 9 p.m.)? That is to say, you wouldn't feel comfortable saying "e, I'm out the door. Please close up after yourself, and be sure to lock the tack room when you are done"?

              Comment


              • #67
                I agree with elizabeth - a BM isn't a babysitter. There is no reason, unless you're called in an emergency, that you can't leave when your last lesson is done and you've done your final walk-through for the evening. Management is one thing; micromanagment will make you crazy.
                In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
                A life lived by example, done too soon.
                www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/

                Comment


                • #68
                  At the barn i used to board at (now I have my own place) we were "closed on mondays" but in the sense that there were no lessons and most of the horses were off from the previous day of showing, but boarders could still ride if they wanted to.

                  Barn closed at 8 or 9pm I cant remember. It was a rule that whoever was leaving last would clean up and make sure all the lights were off for the night.

                  This is a good thread, now that Im starting my own lesson/boarding buisness, I have a lot to consider when posting barn hours.
                  ~Former Disgruntled College Clique...recently graduated and out in the real world...

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    I guess it seems to come down to two items.. you can run a barn with very strict times and rules and only have kids and lesson programs (which is what you seem to have)... or you can run a more business like barn and have more adults who can be trusted to turn out the lights when they leave and ride without your supervision. I think it is unfair to say because I expect to be able to access my horse and the barn that I expect the BM to be there for my beck and call.. that is a bit dramatic isn't it? I often ride alone (with cell phone attached) and worry about that, but you are right.. folks will accomodate your schedule by finding a barn that works with them. If you have a kid/baby sitting issue and it is not what you want.. perhaps your clients are not what you really want?
                    Horsemanship and the partnership, learn it, talk it, admire it, pass it on!
                    "The Pony" Theodore O'Connor 1995-2008

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #70
                      I wouldn't have a bit of a problem with what elizabeth proposes. The adults are usually very responsible.

                      I did have one adult that would come after hours and constantly call with one bitch after another- after hours. Really, I couldn't do anything right. I very nicely asked her to move on and we still maintain a very friendly relationship when I see her around town.

                      Back to my original post: My juniors are not as responsible. They have been riding when no one is around plus they've been jumping on their own- a no-no here at my barn. And they're messy.
                      http://patchworkfarmga.com

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        The barn I board at now has no official hours- but it did for a while. We had a boarder who worked part time in the mornings, Monday to friday. He would go home then come out to the barn around 7 and stay till 10pm. Ok fine, he works. But on Saturdays and Sundays he would do the same thing if not worse! Show up at 8pm and spend hoooooooooouuurs messing with his horse. And I don't mean training it, I mean combing out his mane, feeding him bushels of apples every day etc. He wasn't a very experienced horse person either so the Barn Owner felt they had to check on him periodically and make sure he was ok- BO and husband work all day - they don't want to be out there at 10pm on a saturday babysitting! They had to be on the properrty at the very least so they had no chance to go out to dinner etc. And I mean, the guy did this every weekend, without fail.

                        So Weekends the barn cloed at 7pm. And The gentleman moved to a new barn and then sold his horse because the new barn wouldn;t put up with his BS either.

                        I've been at barns that are closed Mondays- doesn't bother me. It sounds like you need a charismatic ambassador to the teens- I 've been at barns where the only adult on the property all day was the trainer out in the indoor teaching and the barn was immaculate and spotless and everything ran like clockwork all done by kids and teens.

                        my 500th post! woo!
                        Do not take anything to heart. Do not hanker after signs of progress. Founder of the Riders with Fibromyalgia clique.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jsalem:
                          Ah, but see, I sometimes come to the barn at 8am. I don't want to do a "final walk thru/clean up" at 9pm! That's an 11 hour day! Those aren't reasonable business hours. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                          Ah, but the horse business doesn't keep reasonable business hours. That's why I chose a "normal" 9-5 job instead of doing the horses as a business. Look at a large animal vet - they have much worse hours. Vets who prefer a more normal business day go into small animal practice.

                          However, most barn owners I know like to do a late evening bed check - I myself go back out to my barn (my husband and I have our own place, we don't board) as late as 10/11 pm to check the horses and I live a good 15 minutes away. 8 am - 9 pm is actually reasonable hours for the horse business; many people are up before 6 am to feed/ride/etc.

                          If your main problem is a bunch of messy kids, that needs to be addressed before changing barn hours. If it is irritating to you, just imagine how irritating it is to the rest of your "adult" boarders who are also dealing with the mess. Perhaps you need to cater your barn to adults if having children there is causing so many problems. If you really want to cater to kids, then some boundaries need to be set.

                          Good luck with everything!

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            I really have nothing helpful to add except a sort of funny story about a person that used to come out REALLY late.

                            I used to live in a little barn that had been converted to an apartment (three stalls, such luxury!) We had 1/2 acre pasture board for about 10 horses. All of the owners were just trail riders, and usually were done by 6pm or so. But we had one old guy (he was at least 70 years old) that like to go for night trail rides, and I mean, he would show up at 1 am for a ride!!! He even did it on Christmas eve. One time, his horse came cantering home around 3am and we had to go out looking for him (he was OK, but had to walk about 3 miles home). After that, the owner told him that he couldn't be on the property past 10pm, so he moved to a different place.
                            "Ponies are a socially acceptable form of child abuse." - said by a friend when asked if she was going to find a pony for her 5 year old daughter.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              JumperFun - that's just plain nuts, not to mention dangerous. I'll add that I am one of those folks who loves to fuss over my horse after a ride, which means that I am frequently one of the last to leave at 8:30 or so...it's part of the joy of horse ownership for me...but I sure as hell wouldn't do it at 11:00 or midnight. Our horses get night check, hay, alfalfa and beet pulp at 10:30 every night and then it's off to dreamland for them until 7:00 the next morning.
                              *Faune D'Helby*

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                It's your barn and your right to decide what hours you'd like.

                                I personally would be annoyed if I boarded at a place that was closed for hours in the afternoons, but that's just my opinion.

                                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jsalem:
                                (1) Staff cannot keep up when there are horses/riders constantly in the hall and wash/grooming racks. This summer we had to clean those areas 3x a day and they were still constantly dirty. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                Dirty as in some manure? Or dirty as in muddy water, bits of dropped trash, tack pieces lying around, etc? A minimal amount of "dirty" is all part of the fun of a horse barn.

                                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> riders absolutely WILL NOT clean up after themselves. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                Penalize them with zero tolerance. Add on a "cleaning fee" each time a boarder seriously messes up an area. Create a "wall of embarassment" where this week's messiest people will have their names posts. Or I'm sure you can come up with some way to motivate people to take responsibility.

                                And if you have enough staff around to clean a wash stall 3x a day every day, surely your staff can also notice who is doing it. I wouldn't have them handing out the punishments but they could leave a note on your desk when they see a problem.

                                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> (2) This summer there was no "quiet time" during the day for the horses to rest. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                Do you mean quiet as in the horses not being used are being kept "awake" by peoples' noise? Or that the horses in general are being overused/overworked?

                                Horses don't sleep 8-hour blocks like we do, so it's not as big of a deal if they don't get a silent 3 hour afternoon nap. In my opinion at least, i'd focus more on making sure any one horse isn't overused. The one barn I visit keeps a log of every time a horse is ridden, and at a glance they can see if he needs some time off.

                                If you have people boarding there, you can't decide for them if their horses "need" quiet time. It's up to them to decide if their horses need an afternoon nap. Not to say you're not entitled to your beliefs, but shouldn't it be up to the owner to decide this?

                                Maybe a compromise is to limit the amount of noise, commotion, and so on for those hours?

                                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> (3) I can't provide supervision to riders all the time. I'm having an issue with my teenage riders breaking the rules when I'm not around. Riding without anyone at the barn when they drive out there at 8:00 at night after I've gone home. Jumping outside of lessons which they know good and well is not allowed in my training program. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                You're right to be concerned! Trouble is teens sometimes do what they please. If you limit the hours, they'll find another time to go off and do their own thing. You can't watch the barn, arena, pastures, and trails every moment the barn is open.

                                Solution: threaten to kick out those who are the worst offenders. Zero tolerance. Post the rules on the wall to avoid "misunderstandings" or even better have each rider sign off on it.

                                I know some teens won't agree with me, but I don't think a group of minors should be running around a stable or riding unsupervised. They could come and ride if one of their parents came along to supervise the group, if they were in a lesson with an adult trainer, or if they have explicit prior permission from you each time. I know teens can be good riders and be responsible, but if they do get hurt you know the parents will blame you. You can't be babysitting each teen 24/7 and you'll go nuts trying.

                                But by cutting your night hours really short, you'll be penalizing the adults who can only ride after work.

                                Suggestion: Simply don't allow minors onto the property without their own parent/guardian present after 7 or 8pm. Also make sure parent sees the lists of rules (like no teens jumping without instructor present) so the better parents can help you enforce things.

                                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> And during the summer I'm definitely going to close between the hours of 12:30 and 3:30 so the staff can finish morning chores and the horses can nap. ... In fact, what do you guys think of closing for lunch year round? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                There are two ways to look at this:

                                Either there aren't may people coming by between those hours (so closing won't inconveninece many people)... but if there aren't many coming by, then why can't staff clean around them and the horses rest anyway?

                                Or there are lots of people coming by preventing your staff from cleaning... but would it make sense to close during a busy time of the day?

                                Either way you look at it, the hours seem odd in my opinion. Sometimes people need to come by at certian hours. For example in that other post about the horse for sale -- it's a pain to sell a horse when a barn closes unexpectedly or early. It's also harder to schedule a trainer, vet, farrier (assuming you allow outside profressionals in). Just the idea a barn is only open a few hours in the morning, closes for the afternoon, then is open till only 7pm in the evening may bother people. We live in a world of 24 hour stores and people do like conveninence.

                                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I'd like to think the afternoon riders should be able to arrive to a clean barn and rested horses. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                As a rider I'd like to arrive to a barn I can enter and ride at than one that will be spotless clean. Every hour you're closed is an hour someone can't visit their horse, ride, or take care of business.

                                If you've got your heart set on cutting your barn's hours, how about compromising with your people by offering hours "by appointment". They'd have to give you advance notice they're coming by, but you'd have to be accomadating to them by not discouraging them. It'll really help people who, for example, can only meet a prospective buyer at 1pm... and it'll help you know who is coming/going.

                                You could also lessen the burden on yourself by appointing one of your adult staff as a barn manager. He/she would be able to also let people in by appointment and/or keep the barn open, but they would also have the authority to enforce the rules or ask people to leave.
                                Veterinarians for Equine Welfare

                                Comment


                                • #76
                                  <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pat:
                                  For all you folks that ride thier horses between 1 and 3 pm in the summer, you should be ashamed. It's too hot!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                  How would suggest a person condition their horse for COMPETING at this time of day? Most of my x-country times were around noon, with stadium jumping following around 1:30-2:00 p.m.

                                  Competing at Level III in dressage, my times were always around 1:00 p.m.
                                  Founder of the Olde Farte Clique

                                  Comment


                                  • #77
                                    As a working adult, I wouldn't generally have a problem with you closing in the middle of the day (Mon-Fri) unless I needed to have the vet/farrer/etc out.
                                    However, limiting nighttime hours would be a problem since I work a full-time job, I can never get out to the barn before about 7pm. By the time I ride, cool down, do my stall, etc, the earliest I ever get outta there is about 9pm (though thankfully our barn hours are 7am-10:30pm every day).
                                    On the other hand, I do not expect the BO to be at my beck and call--if there is an emergency, I can run and knock on his door, other than that, he does not need to be around other than to do his closing check around 11pm.
                                    Amwrider: May the fleas of a thousand camels infest their genitalia and may their arms be too short to scratch.

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #78
                                      Great thoughts, MayS. The summer problem was that kids would ride starting at 9:30. The last group started at 11:30. By 12:30 the chaos wasn't people starting to ride, but juniors sticking their horses on the wash racks or hall and leaving them to dry while they socialized. The help couldn't get by to bring horses in, couldn't blow the hall, couldn't hose off hot horses. By 1-2:00, it was kids eating lunch or socializing in the tack room with a soda (which they would invariably leave on the tack trunks) Honestly folks, summer lunch time closing would not inconvenience my clients.

                                      And my issue with the staff was that they have other things to do instead of cleaning the lounge 3-4 times per day.

                                      I know the rotten hours of this job! I have a really nice barn and I do a really good job- but I won't be doing this forever. When I walk away from my big, beautiful barn (which I dearly love), I'll be returning home to my little 5 stall barn to do my thing in relative peace, having come full circle.

                                      But for now, I sure enjoy this discussion!
                                      http://patchworkfarmga.com

                                      Comment


                                      • #79
                                        For all you who "show in the afternoon", you do not show every day, you do not work for a solid hour at a clip at a show, and you do not need to ride in the afternoon every day to "acclimate" the horse. I can take any one of my horses to a show this afternoon and they'd be just fine, thanks. Ok, today is a bad example 'cuz it's awfully nice today, but you get my point.

                                        The problem is usually not business hours, it's the sense of entitlement that many, many people have. I ran a largish, public, multidiscipline barn for a while. It was open 14 hours a day, 6 days a week. 98% of the boarders could handle that. The 2% that couldn't gave me more grief about the hours we kept than any other single issue. It got to the point that I would have to start turning off the lights in the indoor to get them to leave. With the exception of the 5 or 6 teenagers, each person in that barn was a working professional. Some had conventional hours, some not. Most of the horses where ridden daily, those who weren't were big pets that did little but eat and poop.

                                        If you want to know the kind of crap that these people put me thru, just ask Lauren!, she was one of them. (we love you, Lauren)

                                        Hey, Penthilisa, PT me, how you doin'?

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                                        • #80
                                          Pat, I don't think anyone said they needed to ride EVERY day to acclimate their horses. And, when it's as bad as it's been some days of late, I sure don't "work a solid hour at a clip". Heck, I don't do that when it's nice out!
                                          \"Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion. It seizes a person whole and, once it has done so, he will have to accept that his life will be radically changed.\" -- Ralph Waldo E

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