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I got swindled with my Northampton cutie!!!

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  • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Quinn:
    Seahorsefarms, I don't believe that was the inference at all. What I do believe is that you are once again on the attack. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Hey Quinn, I call 'em like I see 'em!
    FWIW, I just adopted a real rescue horse...his cribbing was not disclosed to me...nor did I ask! The object of rescuing is to provide a loving, safe home - regardless of the flaws. Sounds TO ME like the OP wanted to be able to claim "saving" this horse, yet wants to ditch it since it cribs...that is NOT from the heart.
    www.savethehorses.org GA Horse Rescue
    http://community.webshots.com/user/seahorsefarm

    Comment


    • Tall Oaks, if you did a pre-purchase before you paid for the mare and the mare vetted with clean x-rays, let me know and I'd be interested in buying her from you.

      Comment


      • Cartier...I believe that you are doing talloaks no favors by fanning the flames. Just my opinion.

        Comment


        • Somehow my whole post din not post so here is the rest:

          I'm trying to be constructive for you about the problem itself.
          A miracle collar lots of time does the trick. They live in it and everybody is happy.
          You can make a homemade nasty tasting coating for surfaces in the stall that will keep her from cribbing or mouthing: dish soap, hot sauce, and cayenne pepper. You of course can buy a clear substance if you prefer.
          Put hotwire on the top rail of the paddock she is out in and that will keep her from ever cribbing on it.
          I have my cribeer out with my fantastic warmblood colt. To ease your mind some. He is controlled with the miracle collar and I have no worries.
          I boarded at a barn before I had my own place with a mare that would not be controlled with a collar. No other horse ever cribbed, including my imported mare and foal that were across from her.
          Please do not dismay. This is a problem that can be controled. For whatever reason you ended upw/ the mare & you should get on to enjoying her. She sounds fantastic.
          In the event you cannot control the cribbing, put her on the market. I think you could recover most, if not all of the purchase price.
          http://www.camelotfarmhorses.com/index.htm

          Comment


          • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lightness:
            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FairWeather:

            And what happens when we miss a question? We cannot be involved in sales of horses because then we can be held accountable. Again, Does Equine.com stand fully behind the horses listed? Does COTH stand by all of their advertised horses? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

            I'm sure that there's a way to make it between the buyer and seller and protect Canter. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

            Whoa. Let's use a stock market analogy. A person buys shares of Enron from a person selling shares of Enron. The buyer and the seller are matched up on the New York Stock Exchange. Enron goes belly up through management corruption. Is the New York Stock Exchange responsible for marking a list of things a buyer should have asked before purchasing the stock? I've yet to see a court in the land that would uphold that one!

            IMHO, CANTER acts in the same manner that the NYSE does. It merely matches buyers and sellers...and unlike the NYSE, they do not earn a commission for their efforts!

            There is NO WAY that CANTER should feel responsible for this, nor should they put themselves in the position of having to educate buyers. As in every other business in the world, in the horse business it's "buyer beware." If you're not savvy enough to ask the questions you need to before finalizing the purchase, you get what you deserve.

            That said, if Hay Worthy has passed a vet exam with x-rays, I'd be happy to buy the mare for the original $3,500 and split the shipping costs to CA.

            Talloaks, if you're truly interested in "doing the mare a favor" and "providing a good home" for the mare, you'll take me up on my offer. Your meat sale comments make me physically ill.

            Comment


            • talloaks...what would you be willing to sell her for?

              Comment


              • I bought a horse from a private buyer whose cribbing was not disclosed.

                Was I disapointed and angry? Sure. But it was my fault for not asking, and it's not the end of the world. I learned to always specifically ask if the horse cribs (I hadn't). Could I have sued or some other such nonsense? I suppose but why? I'd most likely lose since I never bothered to ask. My other horses haven't taken the slightest bit of notice of the habit, and haven't picked it up. And he's a lovely horse.

                I do understand your dissappointment and frustration. I felt it to. But swindled is really kind of a nutty word to use. It's like calling a hangnail a life threatening injury.

                It sounds like your problem is solved either way though, youve got plenty of offers to buy her. Let the poor thing go to a home where she'll be a joy and not a burden.

                Comment


                • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Regarding the MEAT MARKET for heaven's sakes everyone, the big issue with Canter and other groups is just that---to keep these horses out of the meat sales. THAT IS WHY I BOUGHT HER!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                  Haven't read most of the thread but this irked me. Do you **REALLY** think that the owners would simply take this horse to the meat market if they couldn't get their $3500 firm price?? I see several steps between $3500 firm and selling for meat prices. So gimme a break. you goofed and it bit you in the arse. Give it a rest already.

                  <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I'd like to add my 2 cents of support for talloaks here. Since I know her personally and professionally, I'm willing to attest that she is a first class horsewoman and a real asset to the horse community. She is very well liked and respected by her peers. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                  Not after statements like she's made here she isn't as well respected.

                  <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>These Canter people survive on their reputation and the public’s ability to trust how they represent a horse. In my mind, based on your experience, I would not deal with them… they have demonstrated they can NOT be trusted and there are too many ethical sellers who CAN be trusted. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                  UMMM.... HELLO!!!???!!! When you deal with a CANTER horse, unless it is OWNED by CANTER you are dealing with the owner/trainer NOT CANTER. Do you even know what CANTER stands for??? Communication Alliance to Network Thoroughbred ExRacehorses. Does anywhere in that description make it sound like CANTER people are the ones selling the horses? NO!! So do the thoroughbreds a freaking favor and keep your yap shut if you don't have a clue, ok?!
                  ************
                  "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

                  "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike

                  Comment


                  • Talloaks... regarding your comment about her coming in last because she was a cribber... the OTTB I board won a couple in his career. He was aquired from a CANTER like organization's help and specifically we asked if he was a cribber... oh no. Well when he got here he was. At first we were a bit miffed- but he is such a cool horse all was forgiven.

                    *** edited to say those horses were all together 24/7 too so it is not like they were just exposed to the cribbing for 20 min a day.
                    And to the comment about young horses 'learning' the behavior... my 5yo gelding that cribs was raised in the same paddock as 2 same age fillies (he started cribbing before he was a yearling). Heck he was even stalled with one of the fillies overnight occasionally. They never cribbed. The 3 yo Appy mare has been here a year (since she was 2).. and was pastured with 2 that were 3 yo, 1 other 2 yo and 1 yearling... none learned to crib.

                    Comment


                    • Cartier--whoa. You choose to accept that the trainers (who sold the horse for $3500) told a CANTER volunteer (who gets paid nothing and has nothing to gain) that the horse cribbed, and this was clearly third-hand information? Shame on you.

                      TallOaks, there are some generous people here offering good alternatives. I suggest you take them up on it. Please, please, take one moment to look at this from this poor mare's prospective. Do the right thing and find her a good home. If you need to donate her to make this happen, call me or any CANTER volunteer you know.

                      So in response to all this, I'm going to start a new thread:


                      Anyone here ever had a horse that showed up their barn, was not what they wanted, but ended up being the horse of a lifetime?

                      I have had two...both never passed a vet check. One was a cribber. He's on the first Ohio CANTER page (the bay jumping). The second one is in my barn right now. I would not trade him for any horse in the entire world, and he is far from perfect.

                      By the way I have a nice warmblood for sale. (sorry Erin)

                      Nancy
                      www.canterusa.org/ohio

                      Comment


                      • I finally had time to go through the entire thread and was very upset at the CANTER bashing. They are a wonderful group of people, and they are volunteers! There is no profit motive for them; just the love of horses and finding good homes for them. The woman that walked around with me was completely upfront when she knew a horse had any type of issue, and she was equally upfront when she didn’t know a particular horse. People who purchase horses at sales like this need to be experienced, ask a lot of questions, and not spend any more on a horse than they can safely afford to lose because it is a bit of a crapshoot. I’m giving my mare a full month off and putting her out on grass every day so that she can unwind and put on some weight. So, I still don’t know for sure what I have beyond a very sweet disposition. But she was inexpensive enough that I haven’t gone out on a limb, and I can feel good about providing her with a good home if she isn’t suitable for lower level dressage or trail riding or whatever. If you are truly “rescuing” a horse, you take the good with the bad.

                        Although I think the trainer should have revealed the cribbing problem, you Talloaks, as an adult, were responsible for asking the question especially since cribbing is clearly such a big issue for you. I did see Hayworthy at the sale, and she is a charming mare for those of you who are seriously interested in buying her.

                        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> if enough people feel deceived in their experiences with acquiring CANTER horses, it will make it much more difficult for CANTER to do the good work of ensuring that these horses go on to good lives after the track. If CANTER can’t place these horses, then the organization probably won’t survive. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                        Yes, but the bigger issue being that the horses (quite literally) probably won’t survive. Those of you who have been “attacking” CANTER, please think long and hard about the disservice you are doing OTTB in the future with your disparaging remarks. Many of these horses would have gone to slaughter already if it wasn’t for the good work of CANTER.

                        Comment


                        • My last two horses have lived in the same stall, successively, for nearly 20 years. For half of more of that time, at least one of the horses in the stall opposite has been a cribber. Neither if my horses cribs. My understanding is that other horses "learning" cribbing is an Old Wives (Old Grooms) Tale.

                          Comment


                          • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by talloaks:
                            Karousel posted:
                            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Originally posted by talloaks:
                            Tiramit, I just can't let my expensive warmbloods, foals and other youngsters pick up the vice.


                            <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                            It was my trainer who used that quotation to me last night about my warmblood foals being expensive and not wanting any of the youngsters to pick up cribbing. She also said it doesn't really matter if you have a barn full of older horses because they won't pick it up---it is the young impressionable ones that may.
                            So for what its' worth---I wasn't saying my horses were expensive, Cathy did, and was saying that in comparison to the OTTB's that goes for such very low prices. That's all, nothing major. And I am not one to toot my own horn, so if you knew me at all, you wouldn't be making that remark. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                            You said in your first post "My husband is furious and my trainer is also and they both say get that horse out of here. We breed expensive warmblood foals and don't want them to pick up any vices from this mare." Notice I left the previous sentence in to show that Im not taking this sentence out of context.(FYI My reading comprehension skills are very good) In your first post you clearly implicated that it was you who thought that-not your trainer. Maybe you meant your trainer? This sentence is really contradicting to what you have said to me: You said "Tiramit, I just can't let my expensive warmbloods, foals and other youngsters pick up the vice."



                            You also seem to have missed the entire point of my post too. Here is what I said :

                            "
                            quote:
                            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            Originally posted by talloaks:
                            Tiramit, I just can't let my expensive warmbloods, foals and other youngsters pick up the vice.
                            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



                            Hmmm I raise not so "expensive" warmbloods (they are priced very reasonably~expensive to me means overpriced). My broodmare is a cribber and not one of her foals has picked it up. And I highly doubt they ever will. Yes there is a genetic component to cribbing,however, I think the driving force that causes a cribber is its environment. If you keep your youngsters in stalls and dont provide a more "natural" upbringing for them the chance of the youngster becoming a cribber rises exponentially. "

                            I was clearly giving an example where my mare is the cribber and her offspring dont crib. Her offspring are young impressionable horses -not older horses. My experience clearly demonstrates that most young horses will NOT start to crib, even when their influence is their own cribbing mother! My experience with cribbing strongly suggests that young horses do not "pick up" cribbing, something from their environment causes them to crib. For instance, the youngster may have ulcers, be stressed, bored , not enought turnout etc.


                            I agree with everyone else..... find her a new home or deal with her cribbing. And I repeat someone else, "if cribbing is so important to you why not ask if the horse cribs?"

                            And you did not rescue this mare. To me a rescue consitutes taking a horse you cant really use for what you want.

                            Comment


                            • First of all, let me say that all my opinions and suggestions are well intended (just in case).
                              Tall Oaks: you are right. They should have told you she was a cribber. But you should have asked.
                              Yes, it is wrong that they wont take back the mare. But you did have the chance to vet check and you didn't.
                              They shouldn't have done this but they did. You shouldn't trust complete strangers, but you did (although in ideal world it would be nice to..).
                              Maybe a LITTLE venting is healthy but it's time to do something productive about the situation.
                              In my eyes, you have three ways to go:
                              1) Sue the sellers (if a lawyer deems litigious)
                              2) Sell the mare to someone who doesn't care much about the cribbing
                              3) Buy a collar, medicate her against ulcers (prior vet check, of course), give her plenty of turnout and paint anything cribbable with something nasty (they sell some products for that).
                              FWIW: Here's a pic of my cribber.

                              http://community.webshots.com/photo/...92292245ABDWvg
                              No, I didn't pay a few hundreds for him ($80,000 to be exact....). He is a fancy warmblood. He lives with 12 other horses and not one has picked up the vice (young or old), and after a few months of collar, turnout, smearing and medictaion, he hasn't cribbed again.
                              I hope, if you keep her, that she turns out to be half the horse "Over" is.
                              Over what hill? Where? When? I don\'t remember any hill....

                              www.freewebs.com/caballerizadelviso

                              Comment


                              • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cartier:
                                Talloaks has said that Canter knew the mare cribbed. That should have been disclosed and failing to do so reflects poorly on Canter. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                No... talloaks said the sellers said CANTER knew. That's definitely NOT the same thing! Perhaps it is an unscrupulous seller... would you put it by them in that case to lie about what CANTER knew??
                                ************
                                "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

                                "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike

                                Comment


                                • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by faraway46:

                                  FWIW: Here's a pic of my cribber.

                                  http://community.webshots.com/photo/...92292245ABDWvg
                                  No, I didn't pay a few hundreds for him ($80,000 to be exact....). He is a fancy warmblood. He lives with 12 other horses and not one has picked up the vice (young or old), and after a few months of collar, turnout, smearing and medictaion, he hasn't cribbed again.
                                  I hope, if you keep her, that she turns out to be half the horse "Over" is. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                  Hee, hee. I'll give you the few hundred dollars (that we've been told cribbers are worth on this thread) for him!
                                  "Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are right." -Henry Ford

                                  Comment


                                  • Cindeye,

                                    First, I wasn't trying to imply that CANTER held any responsibility here. If you read my original note, I think it was clear that I was simply suggesting that CANTER could help ensure that buyers know the important information about such horses, and do so without incurring liability. This could include not only things like cribbing, but things that I'd want to know about a horse that I was purchasing, e.g., worming schedule, feeds used, shots, teeth floating, wolf teeth status, etc. Many people either don't know to or forget to find out things like this.

                                    And to use your NYSE analogy, if enough people feel that they were getting a raw deal when buying on the NYSE, they would not use the NYSE to facilitate trading. That's in part why the NYSE has a keen interest in strong regulatory systems, even though they are just the matchmakers. NYSE also provides tons of educational information, although the comparison may not be fair as NYSE is very different from CANTER and the analogy is a weak one.

                                    Even though CANTER isn't here to make a profit, they provide a good service. Helping people do a better job of interacting with sellers will help them continue to provide that service, which is to the benefit of the horses.

                                    Comment


                                    • NMS wrote<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> posted Oct. 07, 2004 02:46 PM
                                      Cartier--whoa. You choose to accept that the trainers (who sold the horse for $3500) told a CANTER volunteer (who gets paid nothing and has nothing to gain) that the horse cribbed, and this was clearly third-hand information? Shame on you.

                                      TallOaks, ... Do the right thing and find her a good home. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                      I have known Talloaks for a considerable period of time and trust her implicitly. So “yes” I do believe that Canter knew about the fact that the mare cribbed. As for scolding Talloaks that she should do the "right thing" ... I have absolutely no doubt what-so ever that Talloaks will do the right thing, but this situation should never have happened. The fact that the mare cribbed should have been disclosed and I stand by everything I have written here about this situation and about Canter. Canter should care about this situation because it reflects on their reputation and it is critical to their goals that the public can trust them.

                                      AS for the personal comments, I am not going to be dragged into responding in kind. This is not about personal vendettas, nasty old gossip etc.
                                      Logres Farm on Facebook
                                      http://logresfarmpintowarmbloods.com/
                                      http://logresdobermans.com/

                                      Comment


                                      • Ther's not enough hundreds in the world, Tiramit , but if you are willing to spend a few hundreds to visit him, you can ride him as much as you want! He's a diva and loves the foreign company !!!
                                        Over what hill? Where? When? I don\'t remember any hill....

                                        www.freewebs.com/caballerizadelviso

                                        Comment


                                        • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by faraway46:
                                          Ther's not enough hundreds in the world, Tiramit , but if you are willing to spend a few hundreds to visit him, you can ride him as much as you want! He's a diva and loves the foreign company !!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                          I may take you up on that!!
                                          "Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are right." -Henry Ford

                                          Comment

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