Dancing Lawn,
Is this really the direction you want this thread to go? You seem determined to twist and inflame this. I think Talloaks point about the Inspection is that putting one on (and hers is amazing by any standard), involves self-less hours of uncompensated work for the benefit of others. IF you want to dispute that, go right ahead. But what is your ultimate point?
In 27 pages here is what is true.
Talloaks purchased a Canter rescue horse because she believed that it was sound with no issues (which is basically how the mare was advertised). She feels swindled, especially with respect to the cribbing not having been disclosed. Many posters on this thread have come forward to say cribbing should have been disclosed and that cribbing is a deal breaker.
Then a bunch of other folks come forward to say essentially, “Hey you fool [Talloaks] you should have known that people at the track lie and are deceitful and will basically say or do anything for a buck… you were stupid to have trusted these people.” Some went a lot further.
Here is what I see…. Talloaks trusted the word of others because she is trustworthy herself. That is not a terrible flaw in Talloaks, rather, that is how we all should be. For those who are asserting that buyers should never trust the word of track people … how does that help Canter or any person [organization] place these OTTB? Talloaks is the buyer you would all want to reach (as are we). We are the buyers willing and able to make a long-term commitments to our horses and we turn ourselves inside out providing for them. This incident (and the responses to it about the utter lack of credibility of track people) would make me run screaming from an OTTB.
A few of you posted that Talloaks has ruined her reputation… that is silly, her reputation is that of a credible breeder who’s word can be trusted. I would do business with her in a heart beat. But what on earth do you think you all have done for Canter’s reputation?
Somewhere on this thread someone posted the link to Hay Market, the Canter page with the original ad for her. It very much appeared to me that Canter was involved in the placement of Hay Market. So let me offer this, IF buyers could have some sense that what is posted about a Canter horse is accurate then more people like Talloaks and myself might be willing to give these horses a try. And if Canter had popped up here and said something like, “Hey, the experience Talloaks had is NOT what we endorse or promote, we will get back to this seller and ask that they be more forth coming in the future” then I would have respect for Canter. But that didn’t happen, instead it seems that Canter maniacs personally attacked Talloaks.
IF we all take a few steps back here… this situation is analogous to the placement of rescue dogs in the following ways:
First: There is an ongoing need to place the surplus of dogs, be the racing Grey hounds or other dogs discarded as worthless.
Second: Canine rescue organizations DO NOT misrepresent the dogs they place. Rather, they try very hard to accurately represent the dogs they are placing so that a suitable match between the rescued dog and the new home can be found. Doing so is in the best interest of the dog and the purchaser. And this approach gives the public confidence that they can trust the rescue organization. It is in everyone’s best interests.
Third: canine groups, including canine rescue organizations stopped “rescuing “ the puppy mill puppies from pet shops windows, because when we purchased a puppy mill puppy the pet shop made a profit and continued to breed the puppy mill dogs to fill the window. We couldn’t purchase them all and we were ultimately making it easier for those who make their living based on the pain and suffering of high volumes of animals being bred and discarded. We [the rescuers] had become their customer. What proved more effective was for the AKC and dog folks to go to the source of the puppy mill dogs, i.e., the puppy mill breeders and require them to accept more responsibility for the animals they breed.
The analogy here is the TB breeders, race track trainers etc, make their living off of the pain and misery of the horses who eventually end up going through Canter or going to slaughter. These breeders and trainer are getting a free ride and leaving others to clean up their mess. How about these TB breeders, trainer etc accept responsibility for these animals. I am not an animal rights activist, but I can certainly see their point in all of this.
What I do not see is the reasoning of some on this board that says essentially , “It’s okay for track people to lie, swindle and cheat, “ ‘cause heck, that’s what they do,” but it’s not okay for someone like Talloaks to be upset and say something when it happens to her. It’ seems like some of you are siding with the right to lie and cheat rather than the side of being honest and acting with integrity.
Is this really the direction you want this thread to go? You seem determined to twist and inflame this. I think Talloaks point about the Inspection is that putting one on (and hers is amazing by any standard), involves self-less hours of uncompensated work for the benefit of others. IF you want to dispute that, go right ahead. But what is your ultimate point?
In 27 pages here is what is true.
Talloaks purchased a Canter rescue horse because she believed that it was sound with no issues (which is basically how the mare was advertised). She feels swindled, especially with respect to the cribbing not having been disclosed. Many posters on this thread have come forward to say cribbing should have been disclosed and that cribbing is a deal breaker.
Then a bunch of other folks come forward to say essentially, “Hey you fool [Talloaks] you should have known that people at the track lie and are deceitful and will basically say or do anything for a buck… you were stupid to have trusted these people.” Some went a lot further.
Here is what I see…. Talloaks trusted the word of others because she is trustworthy herself. That is not a terrible flaw in Talloaks, rather, that is how we all should be. For those who are asserting that buyers should never trust the word of track people … how does that help Canter or any person [organization] place these OTTB? Talloaks is the buyer you would all want to reach (as are we). We are the buyers willing and able to make a long-term commitments to our horses and we turn ourselves inside out providing for them. This incident (and the responses to it about the utter lack of credibility of track people) would make me run screaming from an OTTB.
A few of you posted that Talloaks has ruined her reputation… that is silly, her reputation is that of a credible breeder who’s word can be trusted. I would do business with her in a heart beat. But what on earth do you think you all have done for Canter’s reputation?
Somewhere on this thread someone posted the link to Hay Market, the Canter page with the original ad for her. It very much appeared to me that Canter was involved in the placement of Hay Market. So let me offer this, IF buyers could have some sense that what is posted about a Canter horse is accurate then more people like Talloaks and myself might be willing to give these horses a try. And if Canter had popped up here and said something like, “Hey, the experience Talloaks had is NOT what we endorse or promote, we will get back to this seller and ask that they be more forth coming in the future” then I would have respect for Canter. But that didn’t happen, instead it seems that Canter maniacs personally attacked Talloaks.
IF we all take a few steps back here… this situation is analogous to the placement of rescue dogs in the following ways:
First: There is an ongoing need to place the surplus of dogs, be the racing Grey hounds or other dogs discarded as worthless.
Second: Canine rescue organizations DO NOT misrepresent the dogs they place. Rather, they try very hard to accurately represent the dogs they are placing so that a suitable match between the rescued dog and the new home can be found. Doing so is in the best interest of the dog and the purchaser. And this approach gives the public confidence that they can trust the rescue organization. It is in everyone’s best interests.
Third: canine groups, including canine rescue organizations stopped “rescuing “ the puppy mill puppies from pet shops windows, because when we purchased a puppy mill puppy the pet shop made a profit and continued to breed the puppy mill dogs to fill the window. We couldn’t purchase them all and we were ultimately making it easier for those who make their living based on the pain and suffering of high volumes of animals being bred and discarded. We [the rescuers] had become their customer. What proved more effective was for the AKC and dog folks to go to the source of the puppy mill dogs, i.e., the puppy mill breeders and require them to accept more responsibility for the animals they breed.
The analogy here is the TB breeders, race track trainers etc, make their living off of the pain and misery of the horses who eventually end up going through Canter or going to slaughter. These breeders and trainer are getting a free ride and leaving others to clean up their mess. How about these TB breeders, trainer etc accept responsibility for these animals. I am not an animal rights activist, but I can certainly see their point in all of this.
What I do not see is the reasoning of some on this board that says essentially , “It’s okay for track people to lie, swindle and cheat, “ ‘cause heck, that’s what they do,” but it’s not okay for someone like Talloaks to be upset and say something when it happens to her. It’ seems like some of you are siding with the right to lie and cheat rather than the side of being honest and acting with integrity.
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Talloaks, I think you original intentions were probably good. A rescue is taking a HORSE from a bad situation and giving it a second chance at a new career or just life! It is not about MONEY or people or how it fits into your breeding program, farm, husband/trainers view point. If it is truly a rescue, it wouldn't matter if she came off the truck three legged lame, it would be about doing what is best for the HORSE, not your disappointment that she cribs or how much MONEY she cost. So forget the mistakes you may have made, what anyone may have said, give your heart to this HORSE, and you will both be rewarded.
) new mares!
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