• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 2/8/18)
See more
See less

I got swindled with my Northampton cutie!!!

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by talloaks:
    Hobie cat, why did you have to post everything about the mare?? I have been very careful to leave the trainer's name out of this and now you have brought it to everyone's attention. Why are you doing this??? To be spiteful??? Who do you think you are helping?? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    What is wrong with posting the mare's info? I went & looked her up on the CANTER web site, and I'm sure others did also. Posting those links wasn't exactly like posting CIA classified information - anyone who was interested could have gone to the same links on their own, like I did.

    What are you going to do with the mare, now?

    Comment


    • free - But are people offering her $3,500 - $4,000 for the horse that they now know cribs? From what I have read the most has been $500...

      Comment


      • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by shelly:
        free - But are people offering her $3,500 - $4,000 for the horse that they now know cribs? From what I have read the most has been $500... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

        Cindeye offered $3500. I would pay the same amount also, as long as the mare has clean x-rays. Others offered, but didn't specify price - don't assume that they would only offer a few hundred dollars. (I didn't specify price in my post, but if talloaks actually took me up on my offer, that is what I was figuring).

        But I'm guessing from talloaks "grubby hands" comment that any offers to purchase the horse from her will be declined.

        Comment


        • Lisa - dang! And I went through all the posts to see who offered what, must have missed that one by Cindeye, sorry. So if someone is offering that price for the mare and a good home I hope talloaks accepts. Still don't see why she's still the bad guy for being upset at what she received and wanting to "rehome" it...

          Comment


          • Talloaks: I have a horse in my barn who cribs the second (and I mean SECOND) I remove his miracle collar. If I am riding him and happen to stop and linger too long next to the arena fence, he'll try to crib...He is THE greatest horse I've known and a stellar schoolie in my lesson program. I don't get why cribbing is a deal breaker. None of my horses have picked it up. Nor have any horses at any of the barns I've ever known that had cribbers.

            PS...YOU gave out the mare's name and where you got her from. Wouldn't take Scooby Doo to figure out the trainer's names, so don't get angry at anyone for posting links, particularly since there are people on this board who seem willing to take (purchase) this burden from you and may want to see what the mare looks like.

            So what ARE you going to do with her? Keep her or try to sell her?
            Remember...though eagles may soar, weasles never get sucked into a jet engine.

            Soar like a weasle my friend.

            Comment


            • I think alot of these comments are uncalled for. Talloaks made her comments out of being upset. We all say things or words that are taken the wrong way. Knowing Talloaks, she will make the best out of the situation and also the mare will have a very loving, excellent home with her, if she keeps her. If she chooses not to keep her, the mare will be carefully placed with a very responsible, loving home. If I was told no vices or issues, then I would expect the horse not to cribb. Alot of trainers cannot be trusted. Just thank goodness the mare is no longer with her trainers. Also with a little time, she may quit cribbing. Good Luck Talloaks!
              Photos and videos of my beloved boys and girls!
              http://community.webshots.com/user/cathykb
              http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i296/cathykb/
              http://www.clipshack.com/9424

              Comment


              • As the above poster said Talloaks, YOU gave out the mares name and where you got her from (Northhampton cutie, in your subject line). It surely doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out where to find a picture of the horse, I was rather surprised there wasnt one posted before now (tho it was mentioned).

                I for one wanted to have a look at the mare that caused this much controversy that you are so devastated over. Her info is a matter of public record as you gave out her name in your original post. Don't insult the rest of us by trying to deflect angst, imagined or otherwise. I was rather non-emotive in my first post as I thought there has already been enough emotion heaped atop this pile of BS that is your whining about having purchased a horse without duly ascertaining her suitability. I understand your comments were most likely made out of frustration, but they were made nonetheless.

                I was also interested in her from a broodmare prospect point of view as she is a granddaughter of Halo, my all time favorite sire. I can email you her 3 generation pedigree if you so desire. Her third dam Punter is the dam of 2 stakes winners PRINCIPLES ABOVE and BIG PUNT, and the stakes placed "Gingermint" who was on the board 20 of 38 lifetime races, earning nearly 80k in the early 70s. VERY nice, but a bit further back in the pedigree than I am interested in.

                Apparently my bit of advice about your reputation being priceless was totally ignored. Dont shoot yourself in the foot over this, it really isn't worth it.
                Jessi Pizzurro ~~ Pennyroyal Stables
                Racehorses, OTTBs ~~ 330 383 1281
                Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway. -- John Wayne

                Comment


                • Okay...I'lll admit that I haven't read through the entire thread....

                  I agree that any reputable seller should absolutely disclose cribbing without being asked, but I don't understand the concern about other horses "learning" to crib. I do believe it's possible for a seller to not know that a horse cribs. I had no idea that one of my old geldings was a cribber until I brought him in as a 3 y.o. and stabled him for the first time. He never exhibited this behavior in his pasture situation, even though there were ample surfaces available for him to crib on. No brainer that this one needed to be kept in a situation with ample turn out. Oh- and I sold him in a five-figure price range, after, of course, disclosing to the sellers that he was a confirmed cribber and included the information on the bill of sale.

                  Horses are either genetically predisposed to crib or they aren't. It's not learned behavior, although I will agree it can be irritating or destructive. However, none of the "expensive warmbloods", including mine, that he lived next to for years ever learned this habit from him. He was boarded, and yes, I did disclose that he would crib in a stall before I moved in.

                  I also purchased a horse (another "expensive warmblood" again)that cribbed. Seller disclosed prior to sale, but the horse was so nice it didn't even factor into my purchasing decision. When I treated him for ulcers, the cribbing stopped.

                  If cribbing makes you crazy, please find this mare a good home with someone very much like me, and move on.

                  Comment


                  • Ok from reading the whole post some common sense stuff comes to mind...
                    First off, before buying any horse, make a list of dealbreakers, be they cribbing, weaving, wrong color, whatever, its different for every person. If its a comprehensive list of things you as a buyer just won't take, keep it around, spend time on it, THEN go through the checklist, and if a horse qualifies buy it, if not then don't buy it.
                    Its obvious from reading all these posts, that yes some think cribbing is a really bad vice, but a majority do not. Trainers unloading unsuccessful track horses, see them as just that, track horses, what they do in thier stalls, they could really care less about. The same cannot be said for people buying horses off track, so BUYER BE WARY, but you have to ASK about this stuff. Buying anything from anyone, is a exercise in faith, if you really want something to be as you want it, better ask a million questions and if the answers aren't what you like, you have every right not to buy. Once the horse is standing on your farm, hmm well thats another story. After that you OWE the horse, plain and simple, they didn't ask to be there and its not thier fault they came with a ding or two. Its like adopting a child, if it came from a bad nieghborhood and had some emotional issues you don't send it back because your good kids will learn, you teach it to be good, or the best it can be. The mare sounds lovely, but in your post you sounded like you had Godzilla in the barn and it would corrupt all your other horses. Give her a chance. You owe the mare that much for bringing her home. I do not think you are a bad person, but I do think that saying you were swindled, or that the mare is unacceptable is false. As many people on here who have asked a fair price for her show that to be false. She maybe be unacceptable to you, but its too late to say it was a disclosure problem now. I was upset by the meat market comment simply for the context in which it was written where you were stating you extremely unhappy, angry and wanted the mare out of your site, I hoped it was statement made in the heat of the moment and now that looks to be true. Just would not make a comment like that again...lol people are touchy me included. I hope she turns out to your favorite and maybe the cribbing will either go away, or in the face of her being such a possibly awesome horse, no big deal. Good luck!

                    Comment


                    • Talloaks,

                      I have a beautiful OTTB mare. She was bred and owned by an ex-boyfriend of mine. I knew her for many months before I got her and she never cribbed. Her parents didn't crib either. I hate to say it, but within two weeks of moving to my fabulous barn she started to crib. I was horrified at first. I also have other horses and had no desire for a cribber, actually I had no desire for an OTTB mare either! Why did she start? I have no idea, but I do know that she did not crib when at my ex's barn. Anyway, several years later she irritates me with her cribbing and she'll do it out in a lush pasture with the other horses, but I wouldn't sell her because of that anymore, she has too many other great attributes. Sorry you feel you were swindled. I am sure you can give away the horse if you really don't want it.

                      Comment


                      • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RioTex:
                        So when you are buying a horse, you observe or ask if they do it, right? It's not like you need an X-ray to discover it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                        Absolutely. Even if they still say that they have no vices I like to observe them in their stalls if I can (if they live in a stall).

                        Comment


                        • I have to add my two cents. I haven't read pages 11 and 12.

                          First off, Canter is not at fault in anyway. Many have posted the info from the canter site.

                          It is my understanding that Canter horses are not Rescues, they are OTTB's that trainers have for sale for new "careers". Some are priced low and unfortunately make it to the meat man. From reading the Northampton posts, it was very apparent that all of the Canter volunteers were running around like chickens with their heads chopped off trying to help these trainers find good homes for their horses and help potential buyers get access to these horses. To me, any horse that was advertised over a $1000 didn't seem to be at risk, but that is just my opinion. I unfortunately did not have the money to purchase one of the less expensive horses to save it in the event of a purchase from the meat man. However, if I did have the money, I would have fully expected an OTTB to have some sort of problem. These are not pampered show horses that aren't even allowed to walk through a puddle, they are doing hard work at a young age. You should be glad that she ony cribs and does not have a life threatening leg injury. So with all of that being said, if you don't want her because she is a cribber, sell her. Who know's you might get back what you paid for her. Everytime you buy a horse, it is a gamble, you just got one with a minor vice. She could have come off the trailer and dropped dead. So, I hope your decision is in the best interest of the horse.
                          Missouri Fox Trotters-To ride one is to own one

                          Standardbreds, so much more then a harness racing horse.

                          Comment


                          • [QUOTE]Originally posted by Jennasis:
                            I have a horse in my barn who cribs the second (and I mean SECOND) I remove his miracle collar. If I am riding him and happen to stop and linger too long next to the arena fence, he'll try to crib...He is THE greatest horse I've known and a stellar schoolie in my lesson program. I don't get why cribbing is a deal breaker. None of my horses have picked it up. Nor have any horses at any of the barns I've ever known that had cribbers.
                            [QUOTE]

                            I too have known horses that were stellar schoolies (or whatever their job may be) that were cribbers. If other people want to own them then fine by me, but I just won't for myself. I already own one who is super mouthy & needs to be occupied 24/7. He has more toys that I did as a kid! He would probably pick it way too easily.

                            Then there are some horses that never pick it up. My mare lived right across from one for a year & never picked it up. The one habit he did teach her was to "chew" on her tongue (ie: play with it in her mouth).

                            Comment


                            • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Amy:
                              Speaking from a barn of 23 horses and 3 cribbers... those that were cribbers crib, the others don't. I don't believe the old 'learned cribbing' school of thought. Why not? Well the first cribber I ever owned was born here! With no cribbers on the property. With no cribbers in his pedigree that I know of (can vouch for sire/ dam and have several half siblings from either sire or dam). He just cribbs. He was raised with 2 fillies his age- both from the same sire and neither crib. They are all 5 now. Yes it is a PITA vice but I will take that over nuts any day. Plus almost all are controlled by a collar.

                              But if you like you can send her to Texas and I will take her! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                              Yep I have seen the same thing...we have a whole bunch of yearlings and no cribbers anywhere near them except for the one who has been cribbing since before he left his momma's side and he hasn't taught any of his pasture mates to do it yet either and they are almost 2 now I'll take her also if you feel like sending her to TX Cribbing usually doesn't affect the way they go under saddle Or at least not to me....

                              Comment


                              • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by talloaks:
                                Well its a fact now. The horse I bought through the Northampton canter attempt to find good homes for horses is a cribber and it was not disclosed by the sellers, even when I asked them if there was anything wrong with her. She was listed on the canter list as being "sound, no issues" and the owner trainer said so also. She happened to have been the most expensive, non negotiable horse on the list at $3500 and sounded just like what I wanted in a riding horse.
                                She arrived on Monday night and the hauler and I watched her for awhile in the stall---and then she started cribbing!!! It was never disclosed!!!
                                Hubby came home and was furious--send the horse back!! I made a phone call to the sellers, who did want the phone call to know she arrived, and they said that I never asked about "cribbing" specifically and that if I had they would have told me. They have lots of cribbers and it doesn't bother them. But they wouldn't take her back although the Mr. said give me 2 days to think about it. Well that was last night--no phone call.
                                I called this morning only to get an answering machine.
                                My husband is furious and my trainer is also and they both say get that horse out of here. We breed expensive warmblood foals and don't want them to pick up any vices from this mare.
                                The pretty black 5 year old TB is Hay Worthy and I am sick over this. She is perfectly wonderful and everything I wanted BUT SHE CRIBS!!! On the feed tub!!On the fence!! Must get her a collar today.
                                Does anyone have any suggestions???? My husband says just to send her back to the seller period. He is so angry at this transaction and the fact they with held important information from me.
                                Are there no ethics in horse sales?? I was only trying to do a horse a good favor by giving her a good home. With shipping she cost about 4K so its not as if she was $500 and I could just send her to a meat sale!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                I've had the same situation happen to me but I would not change it for all the money in the world. About a year and a half ago we decided to take a TB mare from a friend of a friend. No issues with the mare other than she was not sound enough for daily jumping. The mare was an OTTB. I didn't mind that she was not sound for jumping, I don't jump, just as long as she was sound for breeding. The friend of the friend delivered the mare to us and you can imagine the look on my face when the mare walked off the trailer with a cribbing strap on. Great....I've never owned a cribber and didn't want to start now. But the mare was beyond adorable and bottom line she was free. We had a sock made to cover the cribbing collar and at first she would crib like mad if you took the collar off. The mare's demeanor changed over a course of a year and now, 7 months pregnant, she is a content animal. She gets turned out without her collar and never offers to crib. If you take it off of her in the stall while you're grooming her she would rather scratch your back with her muzzle then crib. So maybe she's a reformed cribber?? I think the change in atmosphere may be a contributing factor, I dunno. All her other qualities, like her conformation, temperment and pedigree outweigh her little vice so I think I'll just deal with it. It could have been worse!

                                Next time make sure and ask if the horse is a cribber. And in the meantime, if the mare's other qualities outshine her vice why not give her a chance? If not, I'm sure someone would love to give her a chance.

                                Comment


                                • I've got a crib mask (metal with fleece around the part that would touch their nose) that would allow a horse to graze/eat without a collar or cribbing if anyone wants it. I used it briefly on a mare that I no longer lease. I'll be happy to GIVE it to you. Drop me an e-mail...sophab2@yahoo.com

                                  Comment


                                  • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by talloaks:
                                    Lisa Cook posted:
                                    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> track people in general don't give a second thought about cribbing. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                    Well if the seller, a track person, doesn't give a hoot about cribbing, and they said so, why in the H--- won't they take her back and return my money????
                                    That would be fair as far as I'm concerned. Why should they go laughing to the bank while I am left with a problem???? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                    They didn't sell her to you because her CRIBBING was the problem She was on CANTER because she probably can't outrun a fat man...which for the most part is what the folks at the track care about. I don't care if they crib!!! That's what collars are for!!! It doesn't affect their performance which is what I care about.

                                    Comment


                                    • You'd think someone who'd been around horses for 27 years would know that cribbing isn't a learned trait.

                                      Oh well, one more breeder to add to my "list."
                                      \"It is good to be fine.\"

                                      Comment


                                      • This is probably like trying to put out an inferno with a water pistol...but.
                                        TallOaks - I am sorry for you. It's hard to have something represented to you as different than what you expected.It definitely is the art of sales, if they don't ask, don't tell. I'm sure when you wrote the post you were still upset and maybe didn't realize the way some things are lost in translation in print. I'm sure you're kicking yourself for not asking specifically about cribbing. Lesson learned. Hindsight is a beautiful thing.
                                        What I and a lot of other people have the biggest problem with is Cartier's post saying that CANTER should be accountable. HELLO???? It's been posted numberous times what their mission is, you'd have to be in a coma not to get it.
                                        I am in a similar situation, I have two OTTB's, both have issues. One with an old suspensory/check ligament issue which I didn't know about until he had to do a year of layup. One foundered shortly after bringing him home, with no identifiable cause. I never asked if he had foundered before. I sure wish I had asked now! OTTB's are lovely horses, and they all have issues of some sort, but they have so much to offer for the right person. I'm sure you'll grow to love her and if not, I'm sure that you will find a loving home for her.
                                        "We're still right, they're still wrong" James Carville

                                        Comment


                                        • I have not read through this whole thread yet, but wanted to add to it.
                                          I currently have 11 racehorses. THREE of them crib. All three of them wear collars. They wear them because the sound is annoying....
                                          On the track, you usually will not see a horse wearing a collar....well, it all depends on who has the horse and where it is I guess....they really don't care. More than likely, if it's cribbing at the track and wearing a collar....it's because the horse is DESTRUCTIVE.

                                          If the horse runs....trackers don't care if they crib.


                                          Now....if you have been in the horse industry for 27 years....and I'm sure you've done your share of buying/selling.....and you HATE cribbers....why on earth wouldn't you specifically ASK if the horse was a cribber??

                                          Why won't they take the horse back? Probably because they had a horse waiting to take her place when she left....one that will actually make them some money racing. Race track people sell, and then move on.

                                          Now.....how can you figure a horse that crobs can only be worth a few hundred dollars? I take offense to that.

                                          I sold an event prospect who cribbed something aweful, for $6k....one year later (after the young girls discovered boys) he was sold for $18k. He is kicking butt now...who freakin cares that he cribs??
                                          RIP Spider Murphy 4/20/02 - 10/31/10

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X