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I got swindled with my Northampton cutie!!!

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  • This whole thread makes my blood boil. First to have someone who thinks they "rescued" a $3500 track horse who is upset because it turns out to have come with an undisclosed vice that she didn't even ask about. And then to have it turn into several people feeling the need to blame and bash CANTER in support of their friend who MADE A MISTAKE.

    How about admitting your mistake, taking ownership of that mistake, and moving on by finding this lovely mare a home where she'll be loved. You've had NUMEROUS offers of people who are interested in buying her. How about ending this now and just taking someone up on their offer?

    The power of this board is pretty amazing. You don't want to do any more damage to your reputation than I'm sure you already have.
    I would like to think I will die an heroic death...

    But it's more likely I'll trip over my dog and choke on a spoonful of frosting.

    Comment


    • I wish to address the implication that CANTER knew (and presumably chose to hide) the fact that this mare cribbed.

      First, please note this specific disclaimer that we posted on the Northampton Information Page to reinforce the point that we ARE NOT and CANNOT be in the position of vouching for the soundness, temperment and appropriateness (to your situation) of these horses. YOU as the buyer must decide that.

      We are NOT the sellers, and are not involved in the transaction; that would make us brokers and we would be pocketing money for our services instead of leaving our families behind to assist horses on the backside AS VOLUNTEERS.

      Frankly I find it sad, and puzzling, that someone would be so spiteful toward a volunteer group: what would any of us have to gain in withholding information? We work hard, week in and week out, and very much value our connection to buyers--but we cannot protect you in spite of everything if you choose not to follow our suggestions.

      From this page on our Websitewww.canterusa.org/newengland/NoHo/index.htm)

      "The majority of horses being sold at the fair are not based at Suffolk Downs racetrack. Owners and trainers ship in to the fair from tracks and smaller operations throughout the country. CANTER New England volunteers will do their best to compile all available information about horses for sale, but please note that we will not be as familiar with most of these horses' backgrounds, as we normally are with the horses at Suffolk. As always: we urge caution, a pre-purchase and having an experienced person along to help evaluate horses (if you are not)."

      I would ask all reading this to keep in mind the circumstances of the Fair and WHY we posted an entire page of information--including the above disclaimer: in the space of 4 days we took over 120 horse listings while active racing and race training took place AND while working to assist injured and at-risk horses. (The meat buyers actually walk the backside at NoHo, and there is an auction that trainers can take horses to where they are sold for meat.) We still have 4 horses in care that we took on after NoHo, and we assisted 8 others get to the TRF. Helping those horses, and facilitating discussions around homes for at-risk horses, was our primary objective. Frankly, a sound, beautiful $3,500 mare who appeared not to be at risk did not merit a volunteer taking 30 minutes to hang out by her stall to watch for any vices. We took the listing as given and went on to help other trainers list their horses.

      Many, many folks (we've helped to find new homes for over 400 horses since 2002) can tell you that we work very hard (as volunteers with nothing to gain from misrepresenatation) to faciliate successful transitions--but we always are clear that if we don't own the horse that you need to exercise due caution and be CLEAR about your questions, needs and concerns.

      Unfortunately, Talloaks did not have the horse vetted (as I understand it), and did not specifically ask if the horse was a cribber--though it appears to have been of vital interest to her--so she did not follow the specific advice that we offer to all buyers.
      The Communication Alliance to Network Thoroughbred Racehorses of New England--dedicated to helping New England\'s retiring racehorses AFTER the finish line

      Comment


      • How sad is it that Ellen felt she needed to actually DEFEND the saintly work she and her wonderful group of volunteers do week in and week out to save horses.

        Talloaks, Cartier and others, you should be ashamed.
        I would like to think I will die an heroic death...

        But it's more likely I'll trip over my dog and choke on a spoonful of frosting.

        Comment


        • I agree with this poster… <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Talloaks - I do sympathize - I have an ottb mare that I can't give away bc she cribs AND is a grouch. I know for a fact that at the sales, one of the conditions of sale is that you can turn a horse back if it is a cribber and not disclosed. Personally, I would think twice about buying a cribber - it REALLY drives me nuts - and is one of the few things about horses that my husband notices and complains about LOUDLY. OK - Viv - I'd still take your guy (I recognize that ring!!) - but it would have to be an exceptional horse - bc I think that it is hard to resell them if they crib. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


          It’s rather sad that a few of you are so willing to jump in and criticize Talloaks. How about you all take a deep breath and walk a few steps in her shoes. Talloaks tried to do a good thing for this mare. Cribbing was a vice, AND she did ask if the mare had vices or issues or whatever the exact terminology was prior to purchase. IN response to Talloak's question, the seller (if they had been ethical) should have disclosed that the mare cribbed. Talloaks has a right to feel swindled… she has a right to express how she feels about this situation. Now, some may disagree with her (which is their right), but they should do so with civility. Talloaks certainly does not need to be scolded or harangued. And, maybe, before you jump in to disagree, you could consider this from Talloak’s perspective.
          Logres Farm on Facebook
          http://logresfarmpintowarmbloods.com/
          http://logresdobermans.com/

          Comment


          • Ditto Fessy's mom!!! Ditto on all statements.
            ************
            "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

            "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike

            Comment


            • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cartier:
              Talloaks certainly does not need to be scolded or harangued. And, maybe, before you jump in to disagree, you could consider this from Talloak’s perspective. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

              We've heard her perspective and we STRONGLY and vehemently disagree. She does need to be scolded like a child if she's going to behave like one.

              Her original post was nothing but a tirade against a horse and a good organization. That is childish and deserving of a scolding.
              "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"

              Comment


              • I don't think anyone is questioning Talloaks right to be upset. But, her original post did imply (at least to me) that if she hadn't paid $4,000 for the horse that she would take her to auction and sell her to whoever, even if that was the meat man. Since CANTER was working to make sure that the most at-risk horses at NoHo did NOT go for slaughter, OF COURSE the comment about meat got people upset.

                Now, Talloaks would probably never take a horse to auction and have it knowingly end up at the slaughterhouse. But, it is a topic that should NOT even be mentioned. It is a "hot button" for lots of horse lovers!

                Then, you, Cartier, start bashing CANTER. This certainly did not make anyone feel any more sympathetic!!!!

                I bought a horse, sight unseen and paid $7,500. (I even borrowed money from my parents to buy this mare!) Then found out the horse didn't trailer well and had a habit of sitting back while tied. I had EXTENSIVE conversations with the owner and trainer but didn't ask these specific questions. You can bet that when I look to buy a horse now, I ask these questions. It was a PITA to have this mare randomly sit back and break halters, lead lines and even a 4x4 post! But, I had no one to blame. It was just one of life's little lessons. And NEVER did I even joke about sending the mare to the meat man. I eventually found her a good home with an owner she got along with better than she did with me.

                I can sympathize with the situation but bashing CANTER does NOT solve a thing. Solutions have been offered and at least one person has asked what Talloaks will take for the mare. I hope that Talloaks can find a good home for Hay Worthy and that the mare will be loved and appreicated.

                Comment


                • Talloaks -

                  I have a Miracle Collar you can have. It's not new, but it's still in a good, servicable condition. I haven't had to use it in over 2 years. A lifestyle change (lots of turnout and friends) stopped my "confirmed cribber" from cribbing. If you'd like it ... it's yours.

                  If you just want to find the mare a home, I have a huge pasture and lots of friends for her to play with.
                  www.longleafsporthorses.com

                  Comment


                  • talloaks, seems as though your "problem" has been solved on this thread...so are you willing to follow up with those who have offered to take her, or are you just gonna keep bitchin?
                    www.savethehorses.org GA Horse Rescue
                    http://community.webshots.com/user/seahorsefarm

                    Comment


                    • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>And, maybe, before you jump in to disagree, you could consider this from Talloak’s perspective. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Okay, I'll bite. I just went back and re-read the OP. I walked in her shoes right up until I got to this point:<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>With shipping she cost about 4K so its not as if she was $500 and I could just send her to a meat sale!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>and then I had to pry those puppies off! Try as I might, those shoes just don't fit me.

                      talloaks, sorry that you had to learn the hard way that buyers have responsibilities too in a sale, and that not all sales are reversible.

                      Comment


                      • WOW. Imagine if Maxxtrot had freaked out and demanded that Wonser needed to be returned, because obviously, calcified lead rope in the stomach is a issue!

                        That story, Talloaks, is a horse rescue. Your story is sad, and it all falls on that poor mare.

                        I hope both you and Cartier feel ashamed for ANY possible damage you have done by trashing CANTER. They work too hard to be treated like that, it is clear on their website what they do.
                        My treasures do not glitter or clink,
                        they gleam in the sunlight and neigh in the night.
                        ~bedouin proverb

                        Comment


                        • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cartier:
                          It’s rather sad that a few of you are so willing to jump in and criticize Talloaks. How about you all take a deep breath and walk a few steps in her shoes. Talloaks tried to do a good thing for this mare. Cribbing was a vice, AND she did ask if the mare had vices or issues or whatever the exact terminology was prior to purchase. IN response to Talloak's question, the seller (if they had been ethical) should have disclosed that the mare cribbed. Talloaks has a right to feel swindled… she has a right to express how she feels about this situation. Now, some may disagree with her (which is their right), but they should do so with civility. Talloaks certainly does not need to be scolded or harangued. And, maybe, before you jump in to disagree, you could consider this from Talloak’s perspective. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                          And what perspective is it that we should consider? That because teh SELLER may or may not (NONE of us were there, not even you Cartier) have done her a disservice, that she is willing to dump the horse for meat? Or perhaps the perspective that you seem to share -- that CANTER is responsible for this so-call attrocity? Or maybe we should all be so supportive of teh attitude that says "I'm going to rescue a horse so I can feel good about myself" which quickly turns into horrible rants when the horse that was rescued isn't perfect -- especially given that she did not have a pre-purchase done? Or maybe the perspective that a horse is CRAP if it has a vice?

                          Now... tell me... which perspective are we to consider before telling her that she screwed up in the transaction as much (if not more) than the seller, that CANTER is not responsible and does not in ANY WAY deserve bashing whatsoever, to buck up and deal with the situation in one way or another (with many suggestions being offered)?

                          Sorry, but talloaks was trying to get a "good deal" which turned out to not quite be such a GREAT deal as she thought. If she really wanted to rescue, I'm not sure a $3500 firm priced horse qualifies.
                          ************
                          "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

                          "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike

                          Comment


                          • I cannot see this from her perspective because this is her perspective:

                            "with shipping she cost 4K so its not as if I could just send her to a meat sale."

                            And then blaming the seller, when in fact if you read the post it says he would "think about it" and when she called, she got his answering machine. So in reality, he still has not said he would not take her back.

                            And then the CANTER bashing, resulting in bringing the ED of CANTER to defend policies that are clearly eligible for everyone to read. No, I cannot see this from her perspective.

                            These CANTER volunteers give up their free time and pay their own expenses just to help these horses. Without them THOUSANDS (fact!) of horses would have been at greater risk of ending up at a "meat sale."

                            So Talloaks, have you actually HEARD from this trainer yet?
                            www.canterusa.org/ohio

                            Comment


                            • Just think how many TRUE rescues she could have gotten for that $3500!
                              www.savethehorses.org GA Horse Rescue
                              http://community.webshots.com/user/seahorsefarm

                              Comment


                              • I bet there's someone out there who was really sad that they didn't get this mare...and now the person who has her doesn't want her except as meat value.

                                Poor horse. Poor people who would give her a loving home where she would be appreciated just for what and who she is.
                                "And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling." - Capt Reynolds "Firefly"

                                Comment


                                • NMS -- thankfully, it seems that only a very few specific people seem to be ignorant of CANTER's clearly stated policies.
                                  model citizen, zero discipline

                                  Comment


                                  • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cartier:
                                    And, maybe, before you jump in to disagree, you could consider this from Talloak’s perspective. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                    If I understand her perspective correctly:
                                    talloaks saw the horse listed on the auction site, thought her gorgeous, chatted with the owner at the track but did not vet her. Purchased her. Brought her home thinking she had "rescued" the horse. Found out that the horse has a minor flaw that the trainer did not disclose (and does not affect the soundness or rideability of this horse) and wants to cancel the rescue and get her money back.

                                    Is that correct? If so, I can't see why anyone would have an issue with that perspective.
                                    "Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are right." -Henry Ford

                                    Comment


                                    • The horses that are sold and placed through CANTER, do not need the negative publicity coming from this type of thread. I know how infuriated, angered, and upset, people are on both sides, but there are horses out there on the CANTER sites, at the Tracks, at the rescue farms, at the foster homes,at the auction blocks and sadly at the slaughter houses....horses that need people, like all of you to make a difference.

                                      I would like to see the mare in this thread find a wonderful loving home, and for Talloaks to be happy with her involvement and maybe try again in the future....but most of all, I do NOT want CANTER or any of the incredible individuals involved to feel they have to defend the amazing, unselfish and HONEST work they do.

                                      Let's not let this thread become something that could possibly hurt what I know all of you have so much heart and compassion for.
                                      "All life is precious"
                                      Sophie Scholl

                                      Comment


                                      • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Moesha:
                                        The horses that are sold and placed through CANTER, do not need the negative publicity coming from this type of thread. I know how infuriated, angered, and upset, people are on both sides, but there are horses out there on the CANTER sites, at the Tracks, at the rescue farms, at the foster homes,at the auction blocks and sadly at the slaughter houses....horses that need people, like all of you to make a difference.

                                        I would like to see the mare in this thread find a wonderful loving home, and for Talloaks to be happy with her involvement and maybe try again in the future....but most of all, I do NOT want CANTER or any of the incredible individuals involved to feel they have to defend the amazing, unselfish and HONEST work they do.

                                        Let's not let this thread become something that could possibly hurt what I know all of you have so much heart and compassion for. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                        Sad that you had to say that, but you are 100% correct.
                                        "Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are right." -Henry Ford

                                        Comment


                                        • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tiramit:
                                          cancel the rescue and get her money back. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
                                          dontcha mean cxl the "sale"?
                                          www.savethehorses.org GA Horse Rescue
                                          http://community.webshots.com/user/seahorsefarm

                                          Comment

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