• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 2/8/18)
See more
See less

If slaughter is banned, what happens to all the unwanted horses?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #41
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">People who ship horses to a slaughter plant are not likely to wait around long enough for other possible owners to come and look them over just to make a profit. They will already make one once they get the horses to the plant. If they hold them they have to feed them. If the kill buyer doesn't bother to feed them, then he will lose profits the longer the horse waits and starves off weight. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Not around here. The local kill buyer sends a load every 2 weeks. If you have one for the load, you drop it off at his place. He also has people shop at his kill pen. I have go out an looked at his "killers" and made a gamble or two on horses. I know a kid the has done very well in the HS rodeo world on kill pen rope horses. My team is from the kill pen. Some out of that kill pen become rodeo bucking stock. Not all killers get shipped to the plant. In fact less than half the horses that pass through this kill buyers lot are sent to slaughter.

    LF
    Lostfarming in Idaho
    http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t...etPleasure.jpg

    Comment


    • #42
      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LostFarmer:
      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">People who ship horses to a slaughter plant are not likely to wait around long enough for other possible owners to come and look them over just to make a profit. They will already make one once they get the horses to the plant. If they hold them they have to feed them. If the kill buyer doesn't bother to feed them, then he will lose profits the longer the horse waits and starves off weight. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

      Not around here. The local kill buyer sends a load every 2 weeks. If you have one for the load, you drop it off at his place. He also has people shop at his kill pen. I have go out an looked at his "killers" and made a gamble or two on horses. I know a kid the has done very well in the HS rodeo world on kill pen rope horses. My team is from the kill pen. Some out of that kill pen become rodeo bucking stock. Not all killers get shipped to the plant. In fact less than half the horses that pass through this kill buyers lot are sent to slaughter.

      LF </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

      Not around here anymore that I know of. Long time ago (when I first moved here 10 yrs ago)there used to be a trader like that. Guy around here now just loads em up and goes!
      ~ Shannon Hayden ~

      Comment


      • #43
        I'm in the camp thet there's too many. Stopping slaughter here isn't going to stop it everywhere. it's a leaky faucet. You can keep mopping up the water, but there's still gonna be an overflow.
        -Grace

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #44
          Lost Farmer, that is the way that the two kill buyers around here work too. I know that they have bought horses at auctions above meat price because they think they may be able to turn them around. It is almost as if they are pseudo rescue people because they do sell off some of the stock that they get but some also do go to slaughter.

          Here is another thought...what about the rescue groups that go to auctions and buy nice horses who are in need then go home and breed them? There is a rescue group around here that picked up a registered Shire stallion somewhere. They go to auctions and buy other horses. In their ads that I have seen on the Internet they have their set price for what they want for the horse and if it happens to be a mare they give you the option of a free breeding to their registered Shire stallion. To my knowledge they do not stand this stallion to any other mares, just the rescue mares they bring in. I actually inquired about the stallion because I thought he would make one heck of gelding to drive but he was not available for adoption.

          Comment


          • #45
            My personal opinion is that if you are going to rescue, you shouldn't breed. And I would love to see gelding a horse/not breeding a mare a requirement of rescues that put them up for adoption.

            Comment


            • #46
              Exactly, and people will be more willing to give away their unwanted horses rather than to look for that last buck. When money is the bottom line the cheapest route will be taken and giving the horse away is still cheaper than feeding them or euthanizing them.


              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pat Ness:
              The way I see it is when you are alive, you have a chance of a "good" life, even if things are bad at stages in your life.

              When you are walking down the plank to your death, your chances are slim to none.

              It should mean I can work harder now to stop neglect as I won't need to work on the slaughter issue any longer. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

              Comment


              • #47
                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rodeio:

                Here is another thought...what about the rescue groups that go to auctions and buy nice horses who are in need then go home and breed them? There is a rescue group around here that picked up a registered Shire stallion somewhere. They go to auctions and buy other horses. In their ads that I have seen on the Internet they have their set price for what they want for the horse and if it happens to be a mare they give you the option of a free breeding to their registered Shire stallion. To my knowledge they do not stand this stallion to any other mares, just the rescue mares they bring in. I actually inquired about the stallion because I thought he would make one heck of gelding to drive but he was not available for adoption. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                That is another good reason for having standards and laws for rescue organizations. Most I have seen geld all their stallions so they can be placed as riding horses more easily.
                No hour of life is wasted that is spent in the saddle. ~Winston Churchill

                Comment


                • #48
                  <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">her breeding stock paint colt was unlucky enough to be born without "color" and was less than perfectly built so she was fattening him up for slaughter. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                  My Appaloosa Arabian cross is flea bitten grey, I read where the Appy people hate that color most of all. He also has a U shaped neck and it's short. One foot toes in. He's the wrong size too short for the popular hunter world as a horse but at 15H not a pony for the pony classes.

                  Fortunately for him he's registered as half Arabian and cleaned up in the hunter shows, clearing 3'9" fences when the shows where held at the Devon Horse Show grounds. He was champion at this show for 5 years in a row and year end champion the last 2 years. He jumped, he did side saddle, pairs, teams, dressage, driving, western pleasure, games, 4-H, Pony Club and now that he's 34 year old with his heaves and allergies and I'm sure he must have arthritis somewhere he is retired on a farm I named after him, Nomad's Oasis, the king of Chester County, PA He bosses his Nokota buddies around, he rules his pasture and is loving his life and would still take a kid for an occasional pony ride quite willingly then follow them around and love them.

                  Nomad is in great shape but I've chosen not to ask him to do anything he doesn't want to but last year someone came and we took him and his buddy to a farm and his buddy was being ridden and I asked if they wanted to ride him too. The young girl got on him and he gave her a great ride, I just said don't push him to do anything he doesn't want to. She gently asked him to canter and he did quite willingly and pleasantly and he eyed up the jumps too. Of course he was just a baby of 33 then.

                  I think after all he offered to so many kids and adults he deserves a nice retirement and he thinks so too. His pasture mates think he's the bomb.

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #49
                    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">giving the horse away is still cheaper than feeding them or euthanizing them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                    But how do you know that the person who you are giving your horse to is not going to turn around and see if they can make a buck off the deal?

                    It really is not that easy to give a horse away. I tried to free lease a horse that I had 8 weeks of under saddle training put on this past spring, then found out I was pregnant and not willing to get on a greenie. Even with the help of the trainer who had him those 8 weeks I could not find one person to take him for the summer. He was not a difficult horse either, very willing, why no one wanted to ride him I have no idea! So he spent the summer in the pasture, with some ground driving on the side to keep some of what he learned intact.

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ise@ssl:
                      Well we see people send horses to New HOlland in Pennsylvania with this DELUSIONAL idea that someone will BUY THEM. Yes the killers do - but it's almost as though they are in denial about that and refuse to face their own responsibility to these animals. They've convinced themselves - someone else will buy them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
                      That's exactly what is going on, and it's the same as the people who drop an animal off at the shelter with excuses like "I don't have enough time," or "I'm moving." It's highly likely that neither of those situations is an emergency, and the owner could at least attempt to work with their vet and friends to place the animal. But they don't, because it is far easier to dump the animal off and make someone else accept responsibility if something bad happens, like euthanasia. For every "innnocent" seller who doesn't understand what could happen (and isn't it telling that they don't try to find out?), there are plenty who don't want to know because it will cause their shriveled conscience to flare up, which could be painful for them. The killer buyers, the auctions, even the slaughter plants are just doing their jobs, no matter how distasteful we may think it. No, the real criminals are the sellers who don't want to know, they just want the horse gone. So the next time you hear somebody say things like "I can't afford to keep a horse I can't ride," or see an ad for an owner looking for someone else to provide lifetime care for the horse that they rode into the ground, think about where that mentality may lead that horse.

                      People are brutal to one another, and if not brutal, are happy to remain indifferent and uneffected so their little world remains secure and pleasant. Speaking as someone who spent yesterday at the vet with an abandoned week-old kitten (one of three that were dumped by someone's trashcan) helping to pick maggots out of his sheath, I have to ask: why should that surprise anyone?
                      "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." -Don Marquis
                      **CEO of the TQ "Learn How To Ride or MOVE OVER!!" Clique**

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        [QUOTE]Originally posted by county:
                        So do you know for sure the killer buyer was going to send it to slaughter?

                        Yes I do. I even talk to them when they are outside before the horses sell with their little calculators trying to eyeball how much they weigh x the price per pound. I have seen them electric prodding them off and on their double decker trailers. I watch them and what they bid on during the sales. And for those of you who think they only buy the lame skinny ones you are wrong. They want the fat healthy ones. I know they also buy occasional riding horses to resell too. I wait til the end of the sales when they run the loose horses through like cattle, that is when they get the majority of the horses to take to slaughter. Also I have lived at the two ends of the lines. Texas within a couple of hours of both slaughter houses and now Montana within a couple of hours of the Shelby Feedlot.

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BabyGoose:
                          In my book, if a horse goes through a sale yard and nobody BUT the killers bid on it, then it is an unwanted horse.

                          I think there is a problem with unwanted horses in this country. Take for example the thousands of race horses that don't cut it at the track. They may not be exactly "unwanted" because I want to take all of them. But obviously I can't afford to do that. Only so many will be "rescued" by people who want them and have the means to take them. The rest will go through the auction and get bought by the killer, because nobody else wanted them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                          Unfortunately, most of these horses at the track are bought AT THE TRACK by killer buyers and loaded up AT THE TRACK because some trainers need to squeeze that extra buck out of a horse. Most are perfectly sound, young horses that didn't make the cut, former stakes winners that have nagging injuries that the owner or trainer does not want to deal with anymore or horses that at one time did well and now just can't hit the board anymore. It's not that people don't want them, it's because most people DON'T KNOW about them. And with the TRF available to these trainers? Why donate a horse for free when they can make that extra buck?

                          Here are several examples thanks to our trainer nagging the living hec out of her fellow trainers at the track to give these horses a chance!

                          This mare, a 16.3h 3 yr old, was just toooooo slow for the track. She was being walked onto the "kill truck" when my trainer stepped in.

                          Jerry At the Bar

                          9 yr old, 17.1 hand gelding, a former stakes winner of $192K!!! Trainer couldn't keep him sound to run so he was going to sell him to a kill buyer. Uh, no ya don't! Horse is currently SOUND and training dressage.

                          Stretch

                          We kept this filly. She was a $50K yearling, broke down as a 2 yr old, has screws in her RF ankle and the trainer couldn't keep her sound to run. Off to the slaughterhouse you go...until our trainer stepped in. This filly is bred to the HILT with a page so loaded in blacktype we bred her and she is expecting her first foal in '06.

                          Philly

                          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> There is no good solution. Try to cut down on the numbers by responsible breeding would be a start. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                          I agree with this. But how to regulate? As long as commercial breeders are hellbent on getting that classic winner, $9mil yearling, world champion, etc., the culling will continue.

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Lost farmer, I bet most of those horses that get pulled are just lucky for the time being and eventually end up back there again.

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Oh, one more example of an "unwanted" horse (well, not really unwanted because I wanted her!) I bought this QH mare at auction and in the first pics you can still see her hip numbers. The trader had her mane all banded (maybe hoping someone that shows would want her) but ran her thru a sale that the kill buyers do frequent. The first pic was taken in May the day I bought her and brought her home.

                              Mia

                              And what she looked like 3 months ago

                              Mia - August

                              The point I'm trying to make is that there aren't unwanted horses because someone somewhere will want it!

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                That CAN'T be the same horse!

                                Congrats!

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Does anyone know for a fact if the horse population in the US is going up or going down?
                                  Until they are safe.
                                  www.safehorses.org

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Lost farmer, I bet most of those horses that get pulled are just lucky for the time being and eventually end up back there again. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                    You are correct. I have taken some home to work with and returned them the next week. One was a nut case that was great on the ground but a spoiled widow maker when you tried to ride him. He reared over backwards twice on me. I am guessing it was a man made fault but I am not goint to take the risk.

                                    Some do make it out and become great mounts but many are there for a reason.

                                    I have been around a horse or two I would take great pleasure in eating a steak from.
                                    Lostfarming in Idaho
                                    http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t...etPleasure.jpg

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      The population has increased significantly over the last 10 years. There are statistics on the http://www.hr857.com web site. Just go to "what to do with the horses" link.

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        What I'm concerned about is, we cannot even support the wild mustang herds in the west... there isn't enough grazing land for them.

                                        How can we support all of the horses; because every year, there will be more, and more, and more.... and unless there are controls against breeding - there's no end in sight.

                                        Consider the changes in breeding rules that have happened... embryo-transfer...

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          I guess we could be like china and limit the number of kids while we are at it.
                                          Lostfarming in Idaho
                                          http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t...etPleasure.jpg

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X