• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 2/8/18)
See more
See less

If slaughter is banned, what happens to all the unwanted horses?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #21
    I currently have two rescues who are aged (over 10 years considered "aged") and have just taken on two yearlings/2yr old POA (?) ponies to gentle and halter break.

    Just as there is nothing apparantly wrong with the older horses, there is nothing wrong with the ponies--other than they've never been handled. They were born either wanted or "accidently", but finally ended up in a west coast feedlot waiting to be shipped to slaughter. Reason? See above. Whoever allowed them to be born couldn't be bothered to teach them to be solid equine citizens, so they became "unwanted".

    When these two ponies learn to do what is usually required of domestic horses and ponies, they will become desirable. They're cute, large enough for a small adult to ride, and wouldn't make a bad looking driving pair. See these unwanted ponies at: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/eorndoff/album?dir=5e0f&.src When you link there, then go to the Pony Girls album. These were taken right after they arrived.

    Comment


    • #22
      I am so sick of the "unwanted horse" excuse to justify the torture and killing of tens of thousands of horses to hypothetically save them from abuse that has not yet even happened yet. Like OntheBit said...they aren't unwanted, they were for sale. They were unluckily bought by a killer buyer instead of a private person for a riding horse.

      Yes, some of the horses slaughtered are lame, crazy, dangerous or otherwise unuseful, but the vast majority are sound useful young animals that just ended up there due to bad circumstances. Perhaps they were culls from a large breeders herd...or like one poster here on COTH who posted once that breeds paints...her breeding stock paint colt was unlucky enough to be born without "color" and was less than perfectly built so she was fattening him up for slaughter.

      The people who abuse horses are sick people who currently have slaughter as a legal option to rid themselves of their horses...yet they don't use it...instead they starve their horses anyway. Slaughter does not prevent abuse but statistics show us that it has the opposite effect. Texas has two slaughterhouses and the highest abuse/neglect rate in America...how can that be? It is ridiculous to assume that all 60,000 of the horses killed in slaughterhouses annually will end up abused or starving yet I hear it thrown out all the time as a impending crisis.

      Comment


      • #23
        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The OP never said that all Auction/For Sale horses are unwanted. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

        Your right the OP never said this, but this is what the horse slaughter plants and their propagandists would like us all to believe.

        I have asked the proslaughter contingent repeatedly over the past 4 years to show us the data, facts, statistics to prove that the horses slaughtered in the US were "unwanted".
        Tim Cordes himself replied to me in a public forum in front of 100+ people this past April at the "unwanted" horse summit that they did not have any data, FACTS, or statistics to answer my question!

        So, basically, the horse slaughter industry (and its proponents) keep perpetuating this "unwanted" horse MYTH in order to fool people who care about horses into believing that what they do is somehow "necessary".

        There is no such thing as an unwanted horse. The problem as I see it is lies in educating horse owners and breeders to become more responsible about the business or hobby of horse ownership. Some people just arent responsible enough to own horses and some just shouldnt own them because they cant afford them. Why should the horses be blamed for our failures as their human stewards?
        www.horse-protection.org

        No Horses to Slaughter Clique

        Comment


        • #24
          How can it be Tx. has the highest abuse numbers? Law of averages, they have the highest number of horses in that state.
          Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

          Comment


          • #25
            So why do you feel that you can't recoup your money? I guess I would think that if prices dropped, you would pay less for them to start with, put the same training into them as you currently would, and be able to sell them for more money.

            A hypothetical example for what I am talking about-

            Currently- Purchase for 400.00/sell for 800.00

            if prices dropped-purchase for 200.00/sell for 600.00.

            Same profit, just lower starting/ending points.

            Kind of like when the used car market drops, due to heavy incentives on new ones. They are appraised for a lower trade in value, but then sold for less money...same profit margin, just different numbers.

            Comment


            • #26
              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daydream Believer:
              It is ridiculous to assume that all 60,000 of the horses killed in slaughterhouses annually will end up abused or starving yet I hear it thrown out all the time as a impending crisis. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

              I agree, I think it's ridiculous to assume that.
              --------------------------------------
              Creo que el mundo es bello,
              que la poesÃ*a es como el pan, de todos.
              .

              Comment


              • #27
                Its alot like rescue people that go to a sale and say they rescued or saved a horse. They did nothing differant then anyone else at the sale. They bought one for the highest bid. Not an umwanted one but one that someone sold. Theres no rescue or saving about it. Unless someone made the statement " for sure if I buy the horse I'm sending it to kill" They have no idea what the next highest bidder would do with it. I've seen many horses sell where the two bidderrs at the end were " rescue people " I've seen horses sell for three times what meat price is and the buyer tell others they saved it from slaughter. I don't hardly think so. They just bought a horse that was for sale nothing more nothing less.
                Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

                Comment


                • #28
                  Your talking way bigger numbers then these horses ever bring jetsmom. I'm talking horses that are pretty skinny, have feet curled back, wild, in many cases. A freind and I bought 5 this spring for $300 if we get $66 for the 5 were happy. No training on our part I have plenty of the ones I breed to train. Just feed these till there 1/2 ways looking like a horse and try to find homes for them. If they have to go to a sale where no one there wants them you can't give them away. But many find great homes two went to Fl last fall, one to Pa. some around here I just like to give them a chance at life again. But realistically there not all going to get one. But why condem them all to an abused fate because of a few?
                  Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    In my book, if a horse goes through a sale yard and nobody BUT the killers bid on it, then it is an unwanted horse.

                    I think there is a problem with unwanted horses in this country. Take for example the thousands of race horses that don't cut it at the track. They may not be exactly "unwanted" because I want to take all of them. But obviously I can't afford to do that. Only so many will be "rescued" by people who want them and have the means to take them. The rest will go through the auction and get bought by the killer, because nobody else wanted them.

                    There is no good solution. Try to cut down on the numbers by responsible breeding would be a start. I think the first thing that should be done is to make the transport and slaughter more humane. Pass laws on trucking, redo the stun guns to better fit horses. At least those unwanted horses won't suffer as much while we work on way to ban slaughter without the glut of excess horses that might occur.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      [QUOTE]Originally posted by county:
                      . Theres no rescue or saving about it.

                      There certainly is if you outbid the killer buyer for it and you know who they are, which is easy enough to figure out.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pat Ness:
                        The way I see it is when you are alive, you have a chance of a "good" life, even if things are bad at stages in your life.

                        When you are walking down the plank to your death, your chances are slim to none.

                        It should mean I can work harder now to stop neglect as I won't need to work on the slaughter issue any longer. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                        My thoughts exactly but I would never have written it so well. The last paragraph is especially close to my heart.
                        "Concern for animals is a matter of taking the side of the weak against the strong, something the best people have always done." Harriet Beecher Stowe 1811-1896

                        Ponies are cool!

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by county:
                          Its alot like rescue people that go to a sale and say they rescued or saved a horse. They did nothing differant then anyone else at the sale. They bought one for the highest bid. Not an umwanted one but one that someone sold. Theres no rescue or saving about it. Unless someone made the statement " for sure if I buy the horse I'm sending it to kill" They have no idea what the next highest bidder would do with it. I've seen many horses sell where the two bidderrs at the end were " rescue people " I've seen horses sell for three times what meat price is and the buyer tell others they saved it from slaughter. I don't hardly think so. They just bought a horse that was for sale nothing more nothing less. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                          Here's a scenario: you are at a sale and a 2 yo colt goes through who can barely hobble because of a horribly blown up and twisted hock. He's near skeletal with that big worm belly. You watch as the ring stewards try to get this poor guy to perform and the only bidder is a known kill buyer... well at that point you know if you don't bid, the next place that poor colt will be is on a trailer headed for Cavel. An $80 horse in this shape is truly a rescue. And this is a true story.

                          Yes, sometimes people say that they rescued something that wasn't likely a rescue. But when you are talking a horse in very poor condition going so cheaply... do the math. If you frequent the sales and talk to people or watch who's picking up a trailer load of the worst horses in there every week, you know who's buying to kill. You want to hope that it's a rescue picking up all those horses, but fact of the matter is that any rescuer's I know can only afford to pick up so many at a time. Usually only 1-2 horses every few months. And they will as long as the money and space holds out.
                          ~ Shannon Hayden ~

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            So do you know for sure the killer buyer was going to send it to slaughter? Everyone that I know resells the horses they buy for the most they can get. The majority for riders. I know a lady at a sale two months ago that out bid a killer buyer for a horse that sold for $900. No way that horse was going to kill but she told everyone she saved it from that fate.
                            Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              spookhorse yes that horse was no doubt going to a kill buyer but then theres the case like I mentioned. Is the horse unwanted? I don't think so if it were no one would buy it. And I'm sure theres people here that would say if I bought it I'm a kill buyer. Even if I took it home fed it up and sold it to a good home.
                              Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                one thing that the pro folks never mention is how the killer buyers also go to the trouble to seek horses out to sell to the slaughter houses.Some not all go beyond the auctions and look in the newspapers and go look at peoples horses and lie when it comes to what their intentions are for the horses they buy from unsuspecting owners. I bet this happens more often then some may think. Now I would not classify horses sold and bought this way as being unwanted by any means. I have actually had people just drive past my place and see my horses and stop to see if I have any for sale, I do live on a busy road so there is traffic and maybe some are innocent and maybe some are just hopeing to get a cheap horse to resell for whatever reason. I have never and never will ever sell a horse that way. You pro folks just make it sound as if every single horse that happens to find its way into the slaughter house was meant to end up there no matter what. I am getting sick and tired of people asking that question of where will all the horses go. Plain and simple it is up to the owner to see to it that their horses are taken care of. Slaughter is just a easy out for so many cause they are to cheap to advertize the horses they have to sell, and then again it is up to the owner to try their best to make sure that their horse go to a good home. Do the pro slaughter people have no compassion?

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  People who ship horses to a slaughter plant are not likely to wait around long enough for other possible owners to come and look them over just to make a profit. They will already make one once they get the horses to the plant. If they hold them they have to feed them. If the kill buyer doesn't bother to feed them, then he will lose profits the longer the horse waits and starves off weight.

                                  Kill buyers will pick up as many cheap horses as they can fit on their trailers then make a run straight for the plant to get rid of them. If you pay attention to stolen horse alerts, the stolen horses that ended up slaughtered were done so usually within 2 days of being auctioned and sold to the kill buyer.
                                  ~ Shannon Hayden ~

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #37
                                    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">they aren't unwanted, they were for sale </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                    I am really not trying to be snarky here, honestly, but if a horse is for sale the seller no longer wants it right? Otherwise they would be keeping it? It could be for a variety of reasons...rider out grew the horse and needs a different one, was kids horse now kid is leaving for college, getting out of horses due to health or age...etc.

                                    I agree that there are people out there that will continue to neglect horses regadless of whether slaughter is an option or not. It also seems to me that when these cases of neglect are reported very little is done by the authorities to correct the situation. How many times has someone posted on this board about neglect or abuse with the authorities doing nothing? How much energy is put into getting bills passed to increase authority control in getting the neglecters and abusers out of business?

                                    I do not think because there is no slaughter option anymore people are going to wise up and all of a sudden start taking care of their horses and humanely put them down. If they will not take care of them in life and spend the money on them to live they really are not going to spend the money on them in death. There will be animals out there that will slowly die because their owners are too cheap to put them down and have them disposed of properly. I am not sure what the rates are for euthanasia of a horse but last spring when we put down our old granny mare due to old age it only cost $50, I was not charged a farm call for it either and even if I was the farm call is $25. Now to me that is not a lot of money and I will always humanely put my old or injured animals that do not have a positive prognosis for having the quality of life they deserve down.

                                    I guess my question was more for the horses that are in the kill pens at the auctions. Specifically in the kill pens, if there are no buyers for them what happens to those horses? Do they go back to the owners? What if the owners refuse to take them back? If a horse is consigned to a sale/auction and does not sell and the owner refuses to take it back what happens to that horse? Somewhere along the way that has to have happened.

                                    Even when doing your best and selling a horse to another person through a private sale, not through a sale or auction, you still cannot control what that person does to that horse once they no longer have a need for that horse.

                                    Its a nasty situation all around isn't it?

                                    Edited because my fingers typed faster than my brain should have allowed.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      I started to write this on page one but got side tracked by work, so forgive me if this has all been said already!

                                      The laws of supply and demand should kick in and the horse population will eventually be reduced to what the market can handle. Matter of fact I would guess that the market is reducing already. Sales in my area are so low that one of the horse sale yards is closing down. And, I have been watching the price of horses drop in the last year in Mississippi.

                                      If you look at other animals and abuse cases like dogs, it is a constant battle and no doubt abuse of horses will remain about the same. Organizations that spend their time and resources rescuing well horses from feedlots can now spend their time rescuing abused horses. Energy can be shifted to education, and new laws with stiffer penalties for animal abuse.

                                      I am no expert and can't predict the future any more than any one else but I would much rather deal with the extra horses (no such thing as an unwanted horse, one mans trash is another mans treasure) than to continue to see them inhumanly slaughtered. As long as horses are being slaughtered every horse I own is a rescue because they will never be sold, I keep my horses for life.
                                      No hour of life is wasted that is spent in the saddle. ~Winston Churchill

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Well we see people send horses to New HOlland in Pennsylvania with this DELUSIONAL idea that someone will BUY THEM. Yes the killers do - but it's almost as though they are in denial about that and refuse to face their own responsibility to these animals. They've convinced themselves - someone else will buy them. I'd rather euthanize a horse than have it end up in some killer transport destined for a plate in France.

                                        There are many many nice TB's and Standardbreeds going to New HOlland because those trainers and arm's length owners have decided this horse can't run - so it's just plain EASY to send truckloads to the sale - and many go to meat.

                                        It's like rescuing greyhounds - are you helping save animals or aiding the owners ability to just breed more dogs that will be mis-treated??

                                        If people have to FACE the responsibility of finding a home for a horse or having it put down and removed - they might not be so quick to own so many.
                                        Summit Sporthorses Ltd. Inc.
                                        "Breeding Competition Partners & Lifelong Friends"

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by county:
                                          How can it be Tx. has the highest abuse numbers? Law of averages, they have the highest number of horses in that state. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                          Yes, and they also have the most slaughterhouses available so they should have the least abuse of any state if you believe that the slaughterhouses are somehow preventing abused by eliminating unwanted horses.

                                          There just is no understanding why people abuse horses. I was watching Animal Planet..Animal Cops Houston the other day and there was a pregnant starving mare in that area owned by some folks they seized. The mare ended up dying but they saved the foal. Anyway, they showed this creep in court being sentenced and for the horrible abuse of this mare, he got 2 days in jail and a $1000 fine. Our laws protecting animals are a joke. When animal abuse is finally taken seriously and punished appropriately, maybe then we will see a decrease in it. That guy could have hauled her to Beltex or Kaufman any time he wanted and actually been paid for her but instead he chose to starve her.

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X