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Horse sale gone wrong...Insight please!

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  • #61
    Where is this elusive horse owner (the seller)? I did an extensive PPE on my mare with a very reputable sport horse vet, and the owner was present at the clinic to fill out the horse health history and consent forms (similar to what the OP described). We stood there and chatted while the vet and techs worked through the flexions, then I met with the vet privately to discuss overall results and view xrays. It wasn't a big deal, but the mare vetted beautifully so she had nothing to hide.

    As a seller, I wouldn't allow someone to take off to the clinic with a horse they hadn't yet purchased. I would haul the horse myself (or at the very least, accompany them, depending on circumstances), be present for the paperwork and initial assessment, then leave the potential buyer and vet to their private discussion (as a buyer, I was totally fine with that). I would want to be there anyway in case something came to light that needed to be addressed in the best interest of the horse.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by flypony74 View Post
      Where is this elusive horse owner (the seller)? I did an extensive PPE on my mare with a very reputable sport horse vet, and the owner was present at the clinic to fill out the horse health history and consent forms (similar to what the OP described). We stood there and chatted while the vet and techs worked through the flexions, then I met with the vet privately to discuss overall results and view xrays. It wasn't a big deal, but the mare vetted beautifully so she had nothing to hide.

      As a seller, I wouldn't allow someone to take off to the clinic with a horse they hadn't yet purchased. I would haul the horse myself (or at the very least, accompany them, depending on circumstances), be present for the paperwork and initial assessment, then leave the potential buyer and vet to their private discussion (as a buyer, I was totally fine with that). I would want to be there anyway in case something came to light that needed to be addressed in the best interest of the horse.
      That is what we do here and if the horse passes, the buyer, now the new owner, takes the horse home.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by flypony74 View Post
        Where is this elusive horse owner (the seller)? I did an extensive PPE on my mare with a very reputable sport horse vet, and the owner was present at the clinic to fill out the horse health history and consent forms (similar to what the OP described). We stood there and chatted while the vet and techs worked through the flexions, then I met with the vet privately to discuss overall results and view xrays. It wasn't a big deal, but the mare vetted beautifully so she had nothing to hide.

        As a seller, I wouldn't allow someone to take off to the clinic with a horse they hadn't yet purchased. I would haul the horse myself (or at the very least, accompany them, depending on circumstances), be present for the paperwork and initial assessment, then leave the potential buyer and vet to their private discussion (as a buyer, I was totally fine with that). I would want to be there anyway in case something came to light that needed to be addressed in the best interest of the horse.
        It sounds like the seller was working through an agent.

        Usually, when an owner is selling through a pro, it is because they do not want to (or necessarily have the time to) actively participate in the selling process.

        This says absolutely nothing negative about the seller.
        "Are you yawning? You don't ride well enough to yawn. I can yawn, because I ride better than you. Meredith Michael Beerbaum can yawn. But you? Not so much..."
        -George Morris

        Comment


        • #64
          I can't disagree with SNL more about only wanting to deal with pros. My experience is that they are not better, and often far worse than the amateur buyer. As for emotional, I have seen pros cry in order to get their way.

          My experience just this year. Buyer's agents tries horse, loves horse, and asks to purchase with trial. I don't usually off the farm trials, but we negotiate a deal that we both like. I send the contract. Hear nothing. Meanwhile, an out of state buyer is flying in to look a horse. I let the agent know that having no contract, I will show the horse. Buyer through agent has a hissy fit, totally changes the deal and makes a lowball offer. I say thanks but no thanks.

          Another buyer's agent comes out and spend hours trying 4 different horses. Selects one, arranges to do a off-premise trail ride and trailer him to vet for PPE. I will be paid in full and will return check if PPE is unacceptable. Hear nothing for weeks and then get a totally different offer from the buyer, now using a different agent. I walk away.

          Sell a horse (not a Fjord) though an pro, someone I have worked with and liked for years. When a sale finally goes through she increases her commission to 40% and adds in charges that I had never agreed to. She spent a lot of wailing over this transaction which netted her over $14K.

          Contrast this to the three other sales I had this year to amateurs. One lady bought online and is thrilled with the horse. The other lady tried him once, vetted him and had him at her barn 3 days later. Last couple came with their trailer and took the horse home the next day. All three buyers are happy with their horses!

          I'll stick with amateurs any day. You can have the pros.
          Where Fjeral Norwegian Fjords Rule
          http://www.ironwood-farm.com

          Comment


          • #65
            I'm sorry you've had only negative experiences with pros, Ironwood, but let's please remember that you are a pro yourself.

            There are pros that are absolute horror shows to deal with and there are amateurs that are a pleasure.

            Doesn't change the fact that at the upper reaches of most disciplines, most pros will only deal with other pros.
            "Are you yawning? You don't ride well enough to yawn. I can yawn, because I ride better than you. Meredith Michael Beerbaum can yawn. But you? Not so much..."
            -George Morris

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by SFrost View Post
              This is really long but I would really appreciate some feedback. I'm really unsettled by this situation and I want to know if this is the norm, or if I did something wrong so I can avoid this in the future.

              I had a rather uncomfortable situation arise today related to a horse I was in the process of purchasing. I am hoping COTH can offer some insight as to if what happened is normal or if I do have the right to have my feelings hurt/be upset.

              My gelding is ridable but has hock issues, ringbone and is on an off lame. I wanted to add another horse so I could get back into eventing and keep my guy comfortable with just dressage and trails.

              I had purchased an ISH mare who had not been started. I put the money into training and she turned out nicely and had upper level potential. However, she was just too green for me. (I have health issues and this makes me an anxious and not very confident rider. So it was just a bad match.) I sold her to a great home and went on my next hunt for a better match. I looked, and looked and looked. Nothing.

              I stumbled on a horse that happened to be for sale at our other boarding farm (there are two locations and I never even thought to look there). There were two horses, one owned by the BO (younger horse, more laid back) and another owned by a boarder (a 9yo, more energy and LOVES to jump, BO bred this horse so has had him around all his life). Both were very nice and were horses I thought were a good match. But the older horse was so smooth and a joy to ride. I had not jumped in a VERY long time due to my health and I jumped him over a small jump the first time on him. He was sane and made me feel so safe. I loved everything about him. Even better is he was so smooth so it really helped not cause pain in my pancreas. I was so excited.

              There was another person interest in him and I didn't want to lose him so I offered to buy him on the spot if there was a risk of losing him. It was a gamble, since I wouldn't have time to do a PPE but the horse was at the farm his whole life and I trust the BO. (I have never met the horse's actual owner.) They said don't feel rushed and gave me the first right of refusal if someone wanted to buy him. So, I was okay and had some time to ride him again and get a PPE done.

              Same night I ride hime I break my hand, so I can't ride. I was so bummed but the break isn't bad. I told them if someone came along that wanted to buy I was fine giving up my first right of refusal because I felt it would be unfair to hold up a sale given this woman needed to get the horse sold. If he was still for sale when I was able to get on again, then perfect!

              Fast forward to this week, horse is still for sale. I've been thinking about him nonstop and I knew in my gut he was perfect for me. My husband, being sensible, said I needed to do the PPE. I was ready to just hand over the cash and be done. He's right, especially since I want to Event and I let the people handling the sale know I wanted to buy and I wanted to schedule a PPE for next week. All was well. We had even worked out keeping the horse at the farm he is living at now for a few weeks so I can take some jumping lessons and get really comfortable before I take him back over to the other farm on my own. (No jumping instructor there.) I am not sure how much more clear I could have made it that I was going to buy the horse. I had even offered at one point to put a deposit on him if the owner wanted that.

              I use a sport horse vet and I am insistent on using them for just about everything. They have a form that they require for a PPE to be completed by the owner. It asks basic stuff, dates of vaccines, medical history, allergies, lameness history, vet, asks for release of records, and permission to examine, sedate, pull blood, do xrays, and all that stuff. I've seen this a lot in the Eventing world where I feel PPEs are way more in depth than some other disciplines. I feel the more info you have on your horse's health the better. Eventing is dangerous enough, we need to know any other factors that can make it more difficult on the horse and rider.

              I get why the form has to be done as well, the vets need permission to do the exam and procedures on the horse. I can't give it, it isn't my horse. The only things I can see people saying no to are 1) it asked if they can pull shoes (I'd say no to that myself and would not allow it on a PPE with her horse either) and 2) request for the horse's medical records. They can opt out of each by just writing in, you can do x,y,z but not this and that.

              I set up the PPE last week for this coming Monday, with the understanding that I was going to buy provided nothing huge came up. Or so I thought. Wouldn't you think that if you made arrangements for stalling, lessons, and the PPE?

              I get a call today from the gal that rides the horse and is helping with the sale stating that there is another "serious buyer" in the picture and we needed to talk about the PPE. I was kind of shocked that the horse was shown to another potential buyer not two days after I made arrangements to basically buy the horse. (In fact, if I understand correctly the horse was shown today.) I can get past that, because if the sale falls through they have someone else, but why tell me about it? I have the first right of refusal and I was ready with money and arrangements in hand for the horse pending the PPE. I was pretty upset about that, but that wasn't the worst of it.

              I was told that the owner was not okay with the release for the PPE vet and refused to sign it. That no one had ever seen anything like the document I sent them from the vet and the owner wasn't going to go for it. I said that no vet is going to touch a horse owned by someone else, sedate it, preform xrays and the like without written permission. I also said that knowing dates of vaccines and medical history is important and they would be things I needed to know anyway. If she didn't want to release prior vet records that was fine and she could just state that on the form.

              I personally give ALL my vet records or at least access to them to buyers for my horses as I have nothing to hide. I'll tell you everything about the horse good and bad. No horse is perfect and I am not going to hide flaws just to make a sale. That's me. I know that MANY people are not like that. Which is fine and why I will do a PPE with xrays and whatever else so I have all the info.

              Basically the conversation made me really, really uncomfortable. I felt like I was being ridiculous about doing an in depth PPE, wanting info and trying to do what's right for the horse. I am not using the PPE as a hunt to find something wrong with the horse and be a problem, I want to know if there is an issue am I able to keep him comfortable and can he hold up to the job I want him to do. My point was not all horses are cut out for eventing and in the interests of safety for my and the horse I need to know if there are issues. I think that's responsible and I'd want someone to do that if they were buying a horse from me.

              There were a few other things that made me uneasy, but I don't want to give ever detail.

              I ended the conversation stating that I was not okay with using another vet and if she didn't want to sign the release then there would be no PPE and no sale. I was told that they would see what they could do.

              The more I thought about it and some of the things that had been said and the tone of the conversation, the more I get that really horrible gut feeling. I emailed them again to reiterate my points so it was in writing. And I also wanted to say that I was disappointed that the horse I had made arrangements to buy was still being shown for sale even though I'd had the exam set, the stalling and lessons discussed...basically I felt, I can't even put it in words. Why not wait until after the PPE? It was on Monday and if I passed the horse could have been shown then. (Though I doubt I would have passed I REALLY want this horse.)

              The more I thought about it and the owner's refusal to sign a for okaying a PPE, the more uneasy I got and the more I was certain I had to have the exam done if I bought the horse. Was there something being hidden? Why was there so much pushback?

              I emailed them again and stated that due to the owner not wanting to comply with the vet's procedure for the PPE (even with her being able to opt out of certain items) I felt that I should pass. I also told them I felt as if dealing with my PPE was a hassle, which was upsetting because I truly had everyone's best interests in mind. I again pointed out I was disappointed that the horse was shown even though I had made all the arrangements to buy him.

              Is this the norm? I've left some things out to keep it somewhat generic. I can say I do trust the BO and I think the world of the farm and family.

              But what just happened? I can't believe I just lost what was the perfect horse for me (especially with my medical issues) because of something like this. When I got a call stating that there was suddenly another "serious buyer" who "loved the horse as much as I did" I felt pitted against someone else and pressured. I wasn't about to not do a PPE.

              I honestly don't know what to think. I am hoping that someone can offer some insight. More than it just wasn't meant to be and things don't work out for a reason. If you were a seller would you keep showing a horse that someone was scheduled to vet and buy in two days?

              I'm devastated by the whole thing. I even had my had re-xrayed to be sure I could ride him next week during the exam. I know there are lots of horses, but when you click with one it is really hard to let it go.

              Thanks for reading and any thoughts!
              There's a lot of emotion here.... if you still want to buy the horse, try to keep emotion out of it and be as businesslike as possible. And remember that basically, until money has changed hands and paperwork has been signed, you don't really have ANY rights, much less a right of first refusal, even if the owner says you do.

              Best of luck in finding the right match for you!!
              where are we going, and why am I in this hand basket?

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #67
                Macimage, I certainly do not have all the answers. I was simply trying to explain the reasons for the actions that people were stating could have been the issue. That's all. There was no annoyance or snottiness in my reply. Although I don't love to be called flighty. However, given I didn't give every detail of the situation I can see where some may have thought that. Impulsive is something I am guilty of, but not flighty.

                And Bluey, yes, thank you. I agree and I do appreciate the feedback given. Lessons learned and moving on.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Just like buying a house a Buyer/Seller contract voids all of your issues.
                  The price is agreed upon pending a successful PPE done using a mutually agreed upon Vet.
                  It is the buyers prerogative to choose the Vet....and it is the Sellers right to refuse if they have a personal/ professional conflict w/ Buyers choice. then a mutually agreed middle ground practitioner can be found!!!
                  To many ego s to many Unbending Wills going on here.
                  I have Never Ever been asked to sign any paper work for a PPE...although as a good seller I volunteer a statement of history signed dated and a request as Seller for blood to be drawn at beginning of PPE for a tox screen done then or later at buyers discretion.
                  This whole situation is baffling , unless you left a deposit w/ recipes, seller had every right to show horse up until PPE. And even take a back up deposit if someone really wanted him if you passed before or after PPE.
                  He s not your until you pay......and like I said if. Ore people would think to use a buyer seller contract just like in realestate less of this would go on.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    And SNL while I agree with you about the upper levels, the OP is hardly an UL rider seeking an UL horse. I think the OP will agree. She wants a horse for lower level dressage and possibly eventing. Many horses will fit her bill. And she is dealing with a pro (the BO seems to be an agent) and she knows this pro very well. I suspect the BO is not happy as the agent in this mess, just as the agents in my messes were very unhappy and actually apologized to me for the buyers' bad faith behavior.

                    I am pro and I do sell horses on consignment but never in a million years would I say dealing with a pro is necessarily better.
                    Where Fjeral Norwegian Fjords Rule
                    http://www.ironwood-farm.com

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by SFrost View Post
                      I did send two emails within a two or three hair period. I had decided regardless of what they got the owner to sign I didn't like the way things were handled and I really had that instinct this wasn't going how a sale should go.
                      If you had decided that no matter what you still were not going to buy the horse, why did you send them two more emails?!

                      Just move on to the next without sending emails when you have already made up your mind there is no response the other party can do for you to still be interested.
                      The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
                      Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
                      Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
                      The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #71
                        The first email was a follow up toor phone conversation regarding the paperwork. I jade reviewed It again and tried to find what was so horrible about it. My email consisted of where I could see her possible problems and what we could do to work around those. The second email was after thinking long and hard about do I want a horse that the owner doesn't want to release all the info on. The answer to that was no because of how Tue situation went down from the other end. I can't and won't have an event horse that is not full disclosure on health. Even horses with horrible injuries I've been told about. This scared ke to think I am getting pushback on the exam and not being given a detailed history. So I didn't just fire off emails like a crazy person. I've tried to explain that fact over and over but people are really caught up on it. I wasn't rude or mean. I simply stated what I wanted and if we can't get there I am not comfortable moving forward and I was not comfortable with the current status. Where I come from there's nothing wrong with that.

                        As for the type of horse...my goal would be to have something that can make prelim and have a really strong dressage foundation with the ability later to do 3rd Or 4th level. So while they don't have to be there now they need to have the ability to get there. Hence the involved ppe. At this point I save my money for a few months and buy an upper level packer.

                        What is done is done. I am no longer getting constructive comments for the most part. Those who are, thank you. I have no issue admitting faults in certain actions but repeated nary comments are really about at their quota. You think I am a flighty dumb ass who listened to that little voice that keeps you out of trouble. I am sorry I posted this thread. I had hoped people would offer more constructive comments rather than insulting me.

                        I am almost scared to even look at another horse because according to some on coth I mist he a total idiot. Which sucks given many of you are in my area and have horses I would be interested in. Live and learn I guess.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by judybigredpony View Post
                          I have Never Ever been asked to sign any paper work for a PPE....
                          My vet clinic has a "Seller's Statement" that asks about workload, deworming, vaccines, surgeries, vices, medications, joint injections, therapies, and has a statement at the bottom (with seller's signature):

                          To the best of my knowledge, the above named and described horse has no history of lameness other than that previously described, and has not been
                          given medication of any kind for at least 72 hours, unless noted.


                          That said, when I had a PPE done, I gave this information to the seller, but did not expect to get a full, signed statement back. My vet didn't seem to expect it either, but did his exam presuming all the answers were "unknown". If I were the seller, I might fill it out and sign it, but I wouldn't consider it a dealbreaker if the seller didn't fill it out -- nor would my vet (which is probably the most important part of this.)

                          So I think these forms are not uncommon, but whether the vet insists upon them probably varies from practice to practice.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            It seems that the OP has said her last on the subject. However, am I the only one here bothered by the fact that she paid board to the agent on an empty stall and no move was made to offer her a credit on her account for that time period? I wouldn't feel good about collecting on the empty stall if I were part of the sale gone south. Frankly, I would not do a refund. But I would offer a credit or partial credit over 2 months or something to try and have everyone walk away from this deal with a good taste in their mouths.

                            OP, I don't see anyone calling you a 'total idiot.' No one here knows your background and most of the things you have cited are really people trying to give good advice without knowing your credentials. I think (no offense meant here) that you are personalizing this a touch. I, personally, don't think you are an idiot. I think you had a bad deal come up with a horse purchase and that you are looking for support and advice. Do I have your intentions correct?

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              After reading this thread, another possibility is that they did not want to work with you.

                              Edit: I typed the above before you changed your original post. I see that you have edited it to essentially take out all your interactions that may have contributed to the problem.

                              Oh well, good luck to you.

                              For those that may read this thread later as some of the posts don't make any sense based on the changed OP:

                              Originally posted by SFrost View Post
                              This is really long but I would really appreciate some feedback. I'm really unsettled by this situation and I want to know if this is the norm, or if I did something wrong so I can avoid this in the future.

                              I had a rather uncomfortable situation arise today related to a horse I was in the process of purchasing. I am hoping COTH can offer some insight as to if what happened is normal or if I do have the right to have my feelings hurt/be upset.

                              My gelding is ridable but has hock issues, ringbone and is on an off lame. I wanted to add another horse so I could get back into eventing and keep my guy comfortable with just dressage and trails.

                              I had purchased an ISH mare who had not been started. I put the money into training and she turned out nicely and had upper level potential. However, she was just too green for me. (I have health issues and this makes me an anxious and not very confident rider. So it was just a bad match.) I sold her to a great home and went on my next hunt for a better match. I looked, and looked and looked. Nothing.

                              I stumbled on a horse that happened to be for sale at our other boarding farm (there are two locations and I never even thought to look there). There were two horses, one owned by the BO (younger horse, more laid back) and another owned by a boarder (a 9yo, more energy and LOVES to jump, BO bred this horse so has had him around all his life). Both were very nice and were horses I thought were a good match. But the older horse was so smooth and a joy to ride. I had not jumped in a VERY long time due to my health and I jumped him over a small jump the first time on him. He was sane and made me feel so safe. I loved everything about him. Even better is he was so smooth so it really helped not cause pain in my pancreas. I was so excited.

                              There was another person interest in him and I didn't want to lose him so I offered to buy him on the spot if there was a risk of losing him. It was a gamble, since I wouldn't have time to do a PPE but the horse was at the farm his whole life and I trust the BO. (I have never met the horse's actual owner.) They said don't feel rushed and gave me the first right of refusal if someone wanted to buy him. So, I was okay and had some time to ride him again and get a PPE done.

                              Same night I ride hime I break my hand, so I can't ride. I was so bummed but the break isn't bad. I told them if someone came along that wanted to buy I was fine giving up my first right of refusal because I felt it would be unfair to hold up a sale given this woman needed to get the horse sold. If he was still for sale when I was able to get on again, then perfect!

                              Fast forward to this week, horse is still for sale. I've been thinking about him nonstop and I knew in my gut he was perfect for me. My husband, being sensible, said I needed to do the PPE. I was ready to just hand over the cash and be done. He's right, especially since I want to Event and I let the people handling the sale know I wanted to buy and I wanted to schedule a PPE for next week. All was well. We had even worked out keeping the horse at the farm he is living at now for a few weeks so I can take some jumping lessons and get really comfortable before I take him back over to the other farm on my own. (No jumping instructor there.) I am not sure how much more clear I could have made it that I was going to buy the horse. I had even offered at one point to put a deposit on him if the owner wanted that.

                              I use a sport horse vet and I am insistent on using them for just about everything. They have a form that they require for a PPE to be completed by the owner. It asks basic stuff, dates of vaccines, medical history, allergies, lameness history, vet, asks for release of records, and permission to examine, sedate, pull blood, do xrays, and all that stuff. I've seen this a lot in the Eventing world where I feel PPEs are way more in depth than some other disciplines. I feel the more info you have on your horse's health the better. Eventing is dangerous enough, we need to know any other factors that can make it more difficult on the horse and rider.

                              I get why the form has to be done as well, the vets need permission to do the exam and procedures on the horse. I can't give it, it isn't my horse. The only things I can see people saying no to are 1) it asked if they can pull shoes (I'd say no to that myself and would not allow it on a PPE with her horse either) and 2) request for the horse's medical records. They can opt out of each by just writing in, you can do x,y,z but not this and that.

                              I set up the PPE last week for this coming Monday, with the understanding that I was going to buy provided nothing huge came up. Or so I thought. Wouldn't you think that if you made arrangements for stalling, lessons, and the PPE?

                              I get a call today from the gal that rides the horse and is helping with the sale stating that there is another "serious buyer" in the picture and we needed to talk about the PPE. I was kind of shocked that the horse was shown to another potential buyer not two days after I made arrangements to basically buy the horse. (In fact, if I understand correctly the horse was shown today.) I can get past that, because if the sale falls through they have someone else, but why tell me about it? I have the first right of refusal and I was ready with money and arrangements in hand for the horse pending the PPE. I was pretty upset about that, but that wasn't the worst of it.

                              I was told that the owner was not okay with the release for the PPE vet and refused to sign it. That no one had ever seen anything like the document I sent them from the vet and the owner wasn't going to go for it. I said that no vet is going to touch a horse owned by someone else, sedate it, preform xrays and the like without written permission. I also said that knowing dates of vaccines and medical history is important and they would be things I needed to know anyway. If she didn't want to release prior vet records that was fine and she could just state that on the form.

                              I personally give ALL my vet records or at least access to them to buyers for my horses as I have nothing to hide. I'll tell you everything about the horse good and bad. No horse is perfect and I am not going to hide flaws just to make a sale. That's me. I know that MANY people are not like that. Which is fine and why I will do a PPE with xrays and whatever else so I have all the info.

                              Basically the conversation made me really, really uncomfortable. I felt like I was being ridiculous about doing an in depth PPE, wanting info and trying to do what's right for the horse. I am not using the PPE as a hunt to find something wrong with the horse and be a problem, I want to know if there is an issue am I able to keep him comfortable and can he hold up to the job I want him to do. My point was not all horses are cut out for eventing and in the interests of safety for my and the horse I need to know if there are issues. I think that's responsible and I'd want someone to do that if they were buying a horse from me.

                              There were a few other things that made me uneasy, but I don't want to give ever detail.

                              I ended the conversation stating that I was not okay with using another vet and if she didn't want to sign the release then there would be no PPE and no sale. I was told that they would see what they could do.

                              The more I thought about it and some of the things that had been said and the tone of the conversation, the more I get that really horrible gut feeling. I emailed them again to reiterate my points so it was in writing. And I also wanted to say that I was disappointed that the horse I had made arrangements to buy was still being shown for sale even though I'd had the exam set, the stalling and lessons discussed...basically I felt, I can't even put it in words. Why not wait until after the PPE? It was on Monday and if I passed the horse could have been shown then. (Though I doubt I would have passed I REALLY want this horse.)

                              The more I thought about it and the owner's refusal to sign a for okaying a PPE, the more uneasy I got and the more I was certain I had to have the exam done if I bought the horse. Was there something being hidden? Why was there so much pushback?

                              I emailed them again and stated that due to the owner not wanting to comply with the vet's procedure for the PPE (even with her being able to opt out of certain items) I felt that I should pass. I also told them I felt as if dealing with my PPE was a hassle, which was upsetting because I truly had everyone's best interests in mind. I again pointed out I was disappointed that the horse was shown even though I had made all the arrangements to buy him.

                              Is this the norm? I've left some things out to keep it somewhat generic. I can say I do trust the BO and I think the world of the farm and family.

                              But what just happened? I can't believe I just lost what was the perfect horse for me (especially with my medical issues) because of something like this. When I got a call stating that there was suddenly another "serious buyer" who "loved the horse as much as I did" I felt pitted against someone else and pressured. I wasn't about to not do a PPE.

                              I honestly don't know what to think. I am hoping that someone can offer some insight. More than it just wasn't meant to be and things don't work out for a reason. If you were a seller would you keep showing a horse that someone was scheduled to vet and buy in two days?

                              I'm devastated by the whole thing. I even had my had re-xrayed to be sure I could ride him next week during the exam. I know there are lots of horses, but when you click with one it is really hard to let it go.

                              Thanks for reading and any thoughts!
                              The new revised OP:

                              Originally posted by SFrost View Post
                              Changed this to basically sum up the story with less detail.

                              The initial questions should have been just this....

                              As a buyer who is getting a PPE, what would you think if the seller refused to sign the paperwork related to the exam, thus making the PPE a non-option.

                              I could have used a different vet, but I wanted MY vet who I trust.

                              Many other factors at play here but this is the heart of the matter.

                              In the end it doesn't really matter since I passed given the resistance to the PPE paperwork. However, I am interested to see how people would handle this situation.
                              Last edited by Macimage; Nov. 24, 2013, 08:51 PM.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by SFrost View Post
                                The first email was a follow up toor phone conversation regarding the paperwork. I jade reviewed It again and tried to find what was so horrible about it. My email consisted of where I could see her possible problems and what we could do to work around those. The second email was after thinking long and hard about do I want a horse that the owner doesn't want to release all the info on. The answer to that was no because of how Tue situation went down from the other end. I can't and won't have an event horse that is not full disclosure on health. Even horses with horrible injuries I've been told about. This scared ke to think I am getting pushback on the exam and not being given a detailed history. So I didn't just fire off emails like a crazy person. I've tried to explain that fact over and over but people are really caught up on it. I wasn't rude or mean. I simply stated what I wanted and if we can't get there I am not comfortable moving forward and I was not comfortable with the current status. Where I come from there's nothing wrong with that.

                                As for the type of horse...my goal would be to have something that can make prelim and have a really strong dressage foundation with the ability later to do 3rd Or 4th level. So while they don't have to be there now they need to have the ability to get there. Hence the involved ppe. At this point I save my money for a few months and buy an upper level packer.

                                What is done is done. I am no longer getting constructive comments for the most part. Those who are, thank you. I have no issue admitting faults in certain actions but repeated nary comments are really about at their quota. You think I am a flighty dumb ass who listened to that little voice that keeps you out of trouble. I am sorry I posted this thread. I had hoped people would offer more constructive comments rather than insulting me.

                                I am almost scared to even look at another horse because according to some on coth I mist he a total idiot. Which sucks given many of you are in my area and have horses I would be interested in. Live and learn I guess.
                                I thought you sounded totally reasonable until you posted this.
                                "Random capitAlization really Makes my day." -- AndNirina

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                                • #76
                                  Originally posted by IronwoodFarm View Post
                                  I can't disagree with SNL more about only wanting to deal with pros. My experience is that they are not better, and often far worse than the amateur buyer. As for emotional, I have seen pros cry in order to get their way.

                                  My experience just this year. Buyer's agents tries horse, loves horse, and asks to purchase with trial. I don't usually off the farm trials, but we negotiate a deal that we both like. I send the contract. Hear nothing. Meanwhile, an out of state buyer is flying in to look a horse. I let the agent know that having no contract, I will show the horse. Buyer through agent has a hissy fit, totally changes the deal and makes a lowball offer. I say thanks but no thanks.

                                  Another buyer's agent comes out and spend hours trying 4 different horses. Selects one, arranges to do a off-premise trail ride and trailer him to vet for PPE. I will be paid in full and will return check if PPE is unacceptable. Hear nothing for weeks and then get a totally different offer from the buyer, now using a different agent. I walk away.

                                  Sell a horse (not a Fjord) though an pro, someone I have worked with and liked for years. When a sale finally goes through she increases her commission to 40% and adds in charges that I had never agreed to. She spent a lot of wailing over this transaction which netted her over $14K.

                                  Contrast this to the three other sales I had this year to amateurs. One lady bought online and is thrilled with the horse. The other lady tried him once, vetted him and had him at her barn 3 days later. Last couple came with their trailer and took the horse home the next day. All three buyers are happy with their horses!

                                  I'll stick with amateurs any day. You can have the pros.
                                  That, and some of them will try to lock the seller out on having any conversation with the buyer, the idea being that the seller will blow the sale.
                                  America dialed 911. Donald Trump answered the phone.

                                  Stop pumping money into colleges and start getting ready to earn money in the projected tradesman shortage of 2024. Make Trades Great Again!

                                  Comment


                                  • #77
                                    Sounds like this thread has already run its course. However, I'll add in my $0.02 regarding sales in general.

                                    If it gets to be too much work and feels like a headache, move on. If you like a horse, offer to make a deposit (which gets returned pending PPE), then do the PPE. If the sale begins to get contentious that's usually a sign of something fishy.

                                    I had a sale go south after doing all the above and then having the seller's agent refuse to let me use my vet. I was told that I had to have the PPE done in 2 days by a vet of the seller's choosing. My agent said we would like to use our own vet, but they couldn't come out on short notice, but we could do it in 4 days. Seller's agent refused.

                                    In the end, it worked out to my benefit. The horse was eventually sold, but hasn't done well at all on the show circuit since it changed hands.

                                    I ended up buying another horse who has done extremely well both with my trainer and me in the irons. I have been very happy with the new horse and am glad the other one didn't work out.



                                    Sounds like someone may have done you a favor.

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                                    • #78
                                      I had something similar happen to me a month ago. Went to look at a horse in PA( I live in Va) The horse sounded like what I was looking for. I tried the horse liked her and told them I would like to have a basic vetting on her and could they reccomend an area vet. Then I asked about Coggins, no current coggins. I told them I needed to have a coggins before I was going to transport her from Va, thru Maryland and West Va, into Va. I asked if I needed to give them a deposit and they said no. I set up a vetting and two days before I was supposed to go back to have her vetted, I got a message on my phone that they had sold the horse. They were very resistant about the coggins and it made me think there was something fishy going on. It all turned out for the best though as I found another horse and had her vetted this past Thursday. The owner had transported her to my farm( she had to pick up another horse in the area) and was glad that I was having my vet check out the horse. I tried to give her gas money for transporting the horse and she refused it.

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