Training Goal: Snaffle Bit

[zigzagz]

I just wanted to express my opinions on goals for training, and was wondering what other people think!

I personally think that a perfect goal when training a horse is to be able to do everything in a snaffle with loose reins. I don't think that is as far as you can go in training, I think that being able to ride tackless with full trust is one of the ultimate achievements. But I think that that isn't always realistic for everyone, and I think that the goal should be to use as little force as possible. And I don't mean a snaffle bit as in you are see-sawing on your horses mouth or jabbing him with spurs while riding in a bit, I mean you have perfect control without force. Whether you are doing dressage, jumping 5 feet, galloping cross country, or running barrels I would love to see horses that are happy with what they are doing and aren't being yanked around. I 100% understand that not everyone can reach this goal, and other bits and methods are usually used during training, I just think that it is a wonderful direction for people to work towards.

As for personal eq goals, I want to be able to do everything I can do with stirrups, without stirrups.

What are your training and/or eq goals?

[Guilherme]

There is nothing wrong with working in a loose, snaffle bit. It is not, however, the ideal for all disciplines.

My focus in Military Horsemanship as was taught by the Cavalry School at Ft. Riley. That form requires the rider be be in contact at all times (even on the march). Why? Because the mounted soldier must have instant response from their horse at all times, particularly when danger threatens.

Note that "contact" means you always know where the horse's mouth is and, conversely, the horse always knows where your hand is. If you're riding on a loose rein neither horse nor rider knows where the other is. If circumstance requires the taking up of slack so that a high level of communication (and thus obedience) can be had there is a real risk of "bumping" the horse's mouth. This is uncomfortable for the horse and may cause a momentary loss of focus. That moment could be critical, or even fatal.

We've been doing some fox hunting lately. There, too, a quick and accurate equine response to human input can be necessary. Once again, if you're in a loose (or worse, slack) rein there can be a moment where you must take up the contact to accomplish effective communication with the horse. This delay can cause problems ranging from mild embarassment to a collision or run away.

Last, and not least, is the issue of the "loose bit." If a rider is in contact and has proper hands the bit should be relatively stable. If the reins are loose that means the bit can be loose. I'm not sure that a bit "rattling" around in a horse's mouth is comfortable for the horse. Meaning the it's entirely possible that a loose rein is not at all humane.

Put another way, this is not an "either/or" situation.

Most of the "slack rein" demos I see are in an arena done in quiet circumstances. I've never, as in NEVER, seen this done sccessfully in the field.

Maybe it can be, but why? Riding in contact is not injurious to the horse. Where is the gain from "loose rein" riding?

If somebody want's to do that then God Bless 'Em.

G.

[Bogie]

My goals are to have my horses working properly over their backs, balanced, light and responsive. I foxhunt so it's important to me that my horses are not on their forehands (we go down hill at speed), can stand calmly at the check, respond to a light touch of the reins or a shift of weight, and jump safely in company.

As for me, my goals are to be fit enough and balanced enough to stay out of my horse's way, to have a light touch, and a plan. Oh yes, and to stay on!

Not every horse likes a snaffle, not every horse wants to go on a loose rein (some like the security of contact). I ride my horses in a range of bits (or bitless) options -- whatever works for them.

I was very pleased when I was at a hunter pace this summer and at the check one of the volunteers complemented my horse and his beautiful top line!

[Bluey]

There is nothing wrong with working in a loose, snaffle bit. It is not, however, the ideal for all disciplines.

My focus in Military Horsemanship as was taught by the Cavalry School at Ft. Riley. That form requires the rider be be in contact at all times (even on the march). Why? Because the mounted soldier must have instant response from their horse at all times, particularly when danger threatens.

Note that "contact" means you always know where the horse's mouth is and, conversely, the horse always knows where your hand is. If you're riding on a loose rein neither horse nor rider knows where the other is. If circumstance requires the taking up of slack so that a high level of communication (and thus obedience) can be had there is a real risk of "bumping" the horse's mouth. This is uncomfortable for the horse and may cause a momentary loss of focus. That moment could be critical, or even fatal.

We've been doing some fox hunting lately. There, too, a quick and accurate equine response to human input can be necessary. Once again, if you're in a loose (or worse, slack) rein there can be a moment where you must take up the contact to accomplish effective communication with the horse. This delay can cause problems ranging from mild embarassment to a collision or run away.

Last, and not least, is the issue of the "loose bit." If a rider is in contact and has proper hands the bit should be relatively stable. If the reins are loose that means the bit can be loose. I'm not sure that a bit "rattling" around in a horse's mouth is comfortable for the horse. Meaning the it's entirely possible that a loose rein is not at all humane.

Put another way, this is not an "either/or" situation.

Most of the "slack rein" demos I see are in an arena done in quiet circumstances. I've never, as in NEVER, seen this done sccessfully in the field.

Maybe it can be, but why? Riding in contact is not injurious to the horse. Where is the gain from "loose rein" riding?

If somebody want's to do that then God Bless 'Em.

G.

You answer your question in the last paragraph yourself in your first one.

You may have contact with a trained horse without anything on it's head.

I rode gathering cattle out of the canyons and brush, driving them for some miles up the caprock to shipping pastures on the plains, for four hours, without a bridle on my horse, a horse that came to me a few months before because he was running away with it's rider.

Would I have done that as part of a cavalry troop?
Of course not, wrong situation, "discipline" as you say, for that.
Out in our pastures, once for a demonstration, not any more risky than if I had a bit in that horse's mouth, if he had still wanted to run off with it's rider.
The training and situation was the difference there.

How could we ride without a bit?
I had the horse trained to other aids than a bit in it's mouth.
Pictures taken when I first got the horse in the spring and right before leaving to gather cattle that one day in the fall, without a bridle:

[Flash44]

Horses are usually going to look for the easiest way out, the path of least resistance. "Correct" to me, means that a horse is traveling in a balanced frame and responding softly to the rider's aids. It is HARD to get a horse to achieve perfect self-carriage and even professional riders on upper level horses will say that they cannot regularly go around on a loose rein with a snaffle bit and achieve perfect balance.

Think of a gymnast on a balance beam. That person spends many hours a day doing a variety of exercises so that she can do her routine and look perfectly balanced. Once she stops spending all that time doing exercises, she will probably start to struggle to maintain perfect balance.

[Bluey]

To answer the OP directly, that is a good question that will get all kinds of answers, plenty that we would not have thought about without prompting by this thread.
I see anything we put on a horse's head as one more of several ways we use to communicate with that horse.

My goal is to keep working on the skills that let me use all ways I have to relate to the horse I am interacting with, something that starts when I lay eyes on it and the horse notices me, working thru how I move and the horse responds to me, to both of us learning to understand each other.

That translates to what we do in the saddle and yes, if we use bits, as most do, to how we do that.

In the horsemanship tradition I learned to ride properly under, speaking about what we put in a horse's mouth, the mouth was considered sacred.

You learned first by being kind of ineffective with your reins as you gingerly learned how to use them.
You always were made conscious that, at the end of the reins, you were "talking" to the horse thru a very sensitive part of it, that should never be abused.

We didn't have all those bits we have today, a plain D snaffle was what most horses wore, rarely if a horse needed more refined aids was put in a regular curb, for us the old type military curb with a small port.
Very few horses were put on that, considering that many of our riders seat and hands were just not up to using those kinds of leverage bits safely for the horse's comfort.

Once a rider was becoming more skilled, into the intermediate and advanced categories, by then that rider had the motor skills of good balance and seat and leg and hands to work with anything you had on most horse's heads, other than difficult training problems in some horses.
Any kind of snaffle or any other bit really didn't matter that much, the rider's skills made do with any kind of bit the horse seemed to like best.

When it comes to contact while on a task that requires the horse being very active, like the bigger jumping courses or fox hunting or racing, you at times are in situations where you have to take a less than polite contact as the horse may get too strong with you, that is when you see the little momentary fights that happen during that.

The really good riders won't even have to go there but rarely, they and their horses are so attuned as making even the biggest efforts look smooth and easy, but most other riders will have their moments, more with the less trained or more difficult horses.

Now, when you see a horse and rider having regular battles for control, then that is what the OP is mentioning, where we really need to back off and train better before going there, trying to do a task the horse and/or rider are not prepared for.

I used to watch some of the better jumpers, on catch rides, horses they didn't train or even know hardly, still be able to put good, soft ridden rounds with them, why they got the ride.
It was wonderful to watch someone with those skills.

That is a good goal to work for, that we can have those kinds of rides with our horses, where we both work together smoothly.

That is not even touching on bits used for more finesse type communication, as some can be in the more trained horses, where it definitively is not any more about basic communication, but more technical riding.

[candysgirl]

I ride my Arab in several different ways depending what we are doing. The two bits he likes are JP Korsteel's oval mouth eggbutt and a mullen mouth Pelham.

I use the Pelham for very formal days at the hunt just because I like the traditional look. I used to use it for cross country schooling as well because he seemed to think that the best way to get over jumps was at Mach 10. He's since learned there is a better way and we now go in the snaffle.

For foxhunting, dressage and other arena work, I do ride on a light contact. Its necessary for instant communication.

When we do endurance rides or trail ride where instant communication is less important, I ride in a sidepull. He does respond to weight and leg cues just fine, its just not *quite* as instantaneous as with a bit.

We can do everything we do bitless in the sidepull, but I like the finer communication the bit affords for certain things.

[moonriverfarm]

I have trained many an OTTB and without fail the best results have come with Myler snaffles. I'm not a bit guru. They all went fine in regular snaffles, and I have a light hand but keep contact since that is how I teach them to move from behind. But man what a difference this bit has made in their use of their backs and hind ends. Just my experience.