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Letter in this weeks COTH (4/11)

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  • #81
    Personally I think both hunter and jumper is about as boring as it gets, but I'm not going to go slamming people who like it.

    Some people think racing is pretty boring...so?

    Not only was that girl's letter offensive, but she sounds rather ignorant and just plain dumb.

    Some of her "witty" comments (like her husband divorcing her) were about as un-funny as it gets. I'd be embarressed to put my name on a letter such as that.

    *J*
    Formerly "The Fjord Jockey"
    **Founder of the Jock Stalk Clique**...and so far, no one has joined...
    SLOTS=JOBS!
    -The Girl With Endoscope Eyes

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    • #82
      I think she missed Mr. Langer's point. If I remember right, his letter was the one stating that there are 19,000 hunter people and only 6000 jumper-only people and 'hunter-jumper' people. IMHO what he was implying if not directly stating was that the two sports should stay together because the jumpers can't go it alone, it won't work financially. Those dinky little hunter divisions that Ms. Lavigne despises are what pay for a big chunk of the horse show, including jumper classes. If the hunter people should wake up and demand that the hunter entry fees stay on the hunter side of the ledger, it will be Ms. Lavigne who is walking around broke, either from paying huge entry fees for her $25,000 jumper classes, or from pared-down jumper purses. And yes, some people like the challenge of trying to improve a horse's form over fences and train it to handle the demands of a hunter course without it becoming hot or fast. Not all horses should try to do big jumper classes, either for temperament, soundness, or scope reasons, and not all riders are made to go fast at big fences. But that does not mean there is no place for them in showing.

      If people are willing to pay the entry fees and show in the low level hunter classes, and they are profitable for the shows, then the shows can't be criticized for offering them, even if they are dull to watch. My advice to Ms. Lavigne is to just not watch them.

      If she can't stand hunter classes, she and other like-minded people should get together and have their own all-jumper show. I think there was one in Vermont a few years ago which had to be cancelled when the main sponsor pulled out, so maybe they could have it there.

      Comment


      • #83
        This topic raises a question that I have had for awhile. And the following is not intended as either a commentary or criticism of any kind.

        Why are there so many more hunter classes/shows than jumper classes/shows?

        Is this "consumer-driven"?...i.e. in response to the "demands" of the participants.

        Is this "manufacturer-driven"?...i.e. the show management "dictating" the available "products".

        Or is this "trainer-driven"?

        Again, none of the above is meant as a criticism.

        Any thoughts?

        Comment


        • #84
          Okay, so we have devoted five pages on opinions of Ms. LaVigne's style of writing.

          But what about the actual issue of spliting hunters from jumpers and running different shows? How would this help any? How would this promote either sport since many people cross over into both divisions? Riders, owners, and trainers would have to make the decision of: will we just do the hunters or will we just do the jumpers? Yes, they are two different animals, but that does not mean the person who show them are two different people.

          It would be just another headache for show go-ers if these divisions were to be run at different shows, at different venues, on the same day. How would one successfully compete in both? Even if they were run as separate shows at the same venue, the problem of waiting for riders to get over to the jumper or hunter ring would still be an issue.

          I just don't see how Ms. LaVigne's letter supports the notion that these divisions should be split. She did not prove or provide an answer of how to allow these divisions to exist in harmony whether they are split or unsplit.

          - Lindsay -

          Comment


          • #85
            Lindsay - I agree wholeheartedly! There are so many trainers, owners and riders that do both... Can you imagine what would happen to WEF if there were 2 different shows to run - what a NIGHTMARE!

            Comment


            • #86
              One of the main opinions here is that if it were not for the hunters then the jumpers would not exist since the hunters fund the jumpers. As I understand it, there are no hunters in Europe but yet the Jumpers are very successful.

              So my question is why how can the jumpers stand alone in Europe and be successful but not here in the US?

              "I thought I was dead once but it turns out, I was only in Nebraska."

              Comment


              • #87
                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Elghund2:
                One of the main opinions here is that if it were not for the hunters then the jumpers would not exist since the hunters fund the jumpers. As I understand it, there are no hunters in Europe but yet the Jumpers are very successful.

                So my question is why how can the jumpers stand alone in Europe and be successful but not here in the US?

                "I thought I was dead once but it turns out, I was only in Nebraska."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                Well there actually ARE hunters....it's just that next to the level and quality of jumpers and jumper ridersover there, the hunters seem, well, kinda lame. Very few people in France compete only in the hunters. We have a hunter show in the spring only because it makes a nice first show of the year after a winter of no showing and we can attract some young horses who need a smaller warmup before our big jumper show later in the week. We would never actually go on the hunter circuit that is in France.

                The quality of the jumpers and the jumper competitions in Europe is on an entirely different level and are run COMPLETELY differently than in the US. It's something you can't even imagine until you see it for yourself. I encourage everyone to go see one to get an eye opener and see the difference. Heck, come by any show I'm at...I'd be happy to show anyone around!

                June 10th, 2003. D(idi)-Day.....Le Retour Part II
                Centre Equestre de la Houssaye
                See our flyer to learn more!
                ---WHX---

                Comment


                • #88
                  In that I don't show either hunters or jumpers, but have the distinct honor of taking my boarder and friend to some very nice hunter shows, I have to say that I am in complete agreement about the following comment:

                  "But when we have to wait 2 1/2 hours for seven horses to go. . .because some professional is giving a clinic to some poor yahoo at the food stand--come on"

                  I was first incredulous which rapidly changed to being very irked when on ring was held up for 25 minutes because of a "trainer conflict"--so why exactly is it that an adult (in this case) cannot put together a simple course without the coach holding their hand. Now that is rude! So I think she does have a very valid point here. I would wish trainers fostered some sort of self-reliability when riding--instead of being a robot.

                  I think I'll go play in my dressage ring for a while.

                  Comment


                  • #89
                    OK I don't have my COTH yet and did not read all 5 pages of posts BUT..

                    There is a faction that does want to split hunters from jumpers on the national organizational level and perhaps that is what this Jumper rider is doing...trying to support the split.

                    I personally find it odd and offensive that any responsible horsman would slam another discipline...I am a lifelong horseman(or person for the PC group) and I love everything from Reining to Arab Halter to Working Cowhorse to Fine Harness to Hackney Tandem Pairs to the beer wagon teams and Barrel racers.

                    Anybody who strives to excell with an equine partner in any arena-even Hunters-is worthy of respect from anybody else who does the same in a different arena.

                    I think this about politics...and I find it offensive.

                    The Horse World. 2 people, 3 opinions. That's the way it is.
                    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                    Comment


                    • #90
                      I did not read the whole thread... But I did read the letter when I got my COTH. I thought the letter was rude, but being a jumper rider I do see her point. I do not like hunters (don't desperatly like dressage either) but I do respect that they are just as hard as any other equine sport at the "higher" levels, just no something for me. I have never liked the "political" side of hunters, but have done just enough hunters to know that to have that "perfect" trip it takes a lot of hard work (have not had it yet!).
                      I see her point because I get prize list after prize list where the jumpers are an afterthought...but for most big shows that is not a problem. As for people who think we need hunters to "start" good jumper riders...bullS**t...how do you think the rest of the world "manages" without hunters? They do pretty darn well? The hunters are a good way to start if you want to start before you are actually able to do a full jumper course...therefor before you should be showing. All money for the trainers and show org. really.
                      visit us at www.levremont.com

                      Comment


                      • #91
                        [QUOTE]Originally posted by Lord Helpus:
                        Back in the days when I rode with Joe and Conrad, they both would occasionally ride hunters for clients. Joe rode Valor at Devon and Conrad rode a horse called Play the Music at Indoors.

                        Both (but I especially remember Conrad) said that riding hunters made them SO NERVOUS that they hated it. Conrad could head into a huge Grand Prix every Sunday and not be nervous, but give him 8 jumps to perform over in the hunter ring (where all aids must be hidden and all movement flowing smoothly) and he started pacing around, wishing he had not given up smoking.

                        So, to anyone who thinks that only wimps ride hunters and that it is something you do if you are too scared to ride jumpers, I say that they are not riding hunters correctly. Ask J and C: a well ridden hunter round is/can be harder to achieve than a clear open jumper round.

                        It is just a different technique. Not an inferior one.
                        QUOTE]

                        I have enjoyed and admired your classy, well thought out posts since I began reading this BB. This recent posts even further supports my belief that you are a person of class and intelligence. Thank you.

                        -=vicki=-

                        **&gt;&gt;It's not bragging if you can back it up!&lt;&lt;**
                        Save a life...be an organ donor! Visit www.Transplantbuddies.org

                        Comment


                        • #92
                          Oh...and what about us people who only want to jump 2'6"? That is my right, and I am happy that show managers recognize this and offer me this opportunity. I enjoy my horse; I enjoy the partnership we share. It is enough of a challenge for me to stay out in my corners and get my pace to the the first fence. If I do that nicely, I have succeeded.

                          I dont need to jump 4'6" at breakneck speed to feel like I succeeded. If that makes me a "wimp" or a "loser" in someone's eye....oh well.

                          There are many more 2'6" riders than "Lila's".

                          **&gt;&gt;It's not bragging if you can back it up!&lt;&lt;**
                          Save a life...be an organ donor! Visit www.Transplantbuddies.org

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                          • #93
                            To FionaJ: regarding holding rings for trainers, my daughter has ridden with ALOT of different trainers, some BNTs, and everyone was adamant that "You do not go in that ring without me there". Whether it was because they could charge me that $60 coaching fee or because they felt they needed to be present (they didn't- she could have done fine without them there), you were under orders not to go no matter how much they called your name at the gate, until the trainer arrived. Alot of trainers have that sort of rule.

                            I understand your point tho- once you've walked the course, discussed your strategy and striding I would think that if you are riding at the rated levels you should not need a trainer to stand at the gate and shout directions or cluck to your horse.

                            Personally, I think having a ring held for them is a power trip for some trainers. At Gulfport there were some jumper riders who did not even start up from the barns until the announcer started calling their names over the PA system (and it could be one long walk from the barns). Once they arrived they then began to warm up the horse, the trainer would arrive and they would school the horse, before finally going into the ring for a 70 second round. Lila was there, waiting with the rest of us.

                            If Lila is blaming such waits on ring conflicts I think she is sorely mistaken. I think it is more a trainer attitude problem, for both hunters and jumpers. JMO.

                            Comment


                            • #94
                              I show in the A/O Hunters and the A/O Jumpers. I know Lila very well and have since she started showing. Imagine having thirty trips before your jumper goes and five trips before your hunter goes. One would think the hunter would go first, this is not true! You hurry up to wait at the hunter ring. I can finish my jumper and still not miss the hunter class. In my opinion to much time is spent in the schooling ring, trying to be perfect. This should be done at home, not by holding up the class.

                              Comment


                              • #95
                                Txjumper--I was at Gulfport and some of the conflicts you are refering to were because the A/O hunters and jumpers were going at the same time. Riders were told to go to the hunter ring first.

                                Comment


                                • #96
                                  <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Moesha:
                                  If there wasn't so much holier than thou and hypocrisy on this board by many of the posters who are up in arms over her letter I would agree it was out of line and harsh....yet look at the war threads the racist and closed minded attitudes many of you all have there?

                                  Forget the Pot and Kettle..complaing over her arrogance and irrational view is beyond comparison.


                                  She is a very successful jumper rider...and like many others here has her own view point, don't like it perfect don't agree...I DON'T I think it is silly.... but don't criticize her opinion while steadfast screaming your own about other subjects...and not caring how you offend or insult others.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                  Mo, You're brilliant and i love ya to pieces. I couldn't have said it better myself

                                  --- And how did you feel about being denied these Hungry Hippos?
                                  ------------------------------
                                  Life Goes On

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                                  • #97
                                    LordHelpus---the ONLY thing I can add to this discussion is to applaud your responses....very well thought out. Very well put.

                                    Thanks.

                                    "Fear the goat from the front, the horse from the rear, and man from all sides." .....russian proverb

                                    Comment


                                    • #98
                                      The thing that I love most about horses is that there is something for absolutely everyone at every level and every age.

                                      I believe the Hunter Ring to be boring at the lower levels, but I'll ride green horses in the hunter ring and have fun doing it. I wouldn't want to stay in the hunter ring but that's just not where my interest lies.

                                      I think that there is something for everyone at every level and that's the way it should remain. Agree that I'd love to NEVER have to explain the difference between a jumper and a hunter to anyone again, but if I felt that strongly about it I'd move to Europe!

                                      From reading most of the "Offened Hunter Riders" posts here it brings home the point to me that most of them have been sheltered from what it really takes to make a good jumper. If you watch the 3' and 3'6 Child/Am Jumper classes it's indeed frightening.

                                      However, going beyond that, you'll see what it takes to get to the bigger rounds. Those horses and riders have worked for years to get where they are now and its not by accident. Granted occassionally in the 4' classes you'll see some hack who has more money then brains, but usually they'll break a collar bone in the beginning of the season and you wont see them again for a while.

                                      Let the kids and the old ladies do their hunter rounds safely and have fun doing it! Who cares! More power to them! In the end it keeps everyone happy.

                                      "Just remember Dear, it takes a mighty fine man to be better then none!" ~ My mom.
                                      Stoneybrook Farm Afton TN

                                      Comment


                                      • #99
                                        wow....i dont know if im boring or what...but i love to watch the hunters. ill sit there all day and watch the whole show. i dont think its boring. but then again i normally go to the schooling shows and see a lot of greenies...not the perfect horses where every ride is the same, but i still enjoy that. oh well

                                        Ride for the go. Stop is not in our vocabulary. ~Lulu
                                        COWBOY UP!
                                        ~*Ride with Pride*~

                                        Comment


                                        • I have seen the author of the letter ride in some big classes and I can see why she did not excel in the hunter ring, at times it can be down right scary (gasping and grabbing the arm of the person sitting next to me, scary!!) She has a great horse (s) and the *balls* to ride on the edge. I am glad it pays off for her, but she is downright rude and her letter showed just how much class she really has.

                                          Perhaps if she had spent more time in the hunter/eq ring she wouldn't have to use rubber bands to keep her feet in the stirrups! Until I see her consistently winning at the international level and not just outrunning the competition in backwoods grand prix classes, then, maybe, I will consider listening to what she has to say.

                                          [This message was edited by Ash on Apr. 15, 2003 at 11:11 AM.]
                                          ************************************************** **********
                                          The government is best which governs least.
                                          -Henry David Thoreau

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