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Who pays for Barn Owner's liability insurance?

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  • #21
    The barn owner wants to be named as an "additional insured" on your policy which is not that uncommon at all and might even be a requirement of their own insurance policy. They are not in any way "trying to get you to pay for their insurance". It protects them if your horse injures someone by no fault of the BO. Example - you take Pookie out on a trial ride or to a show and Pookie kicks a kid in the head. Kids parents are going to go after your and anyone involved with the horse (looking for the deepest pockets). This in no way is due to anything the BO did or had control over so with the additional insured endorsement on your policy it would respond in the BO's defense along with responding to the suit against you.

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    • #22
      Am I the only one who has never heard of this??

      I've boarded at barns ranging from backyard to AA show barns, and have never come across this, or even heard it talked about?? Maybe I've just gotten lucky??

      Comment


      • #23
        FYI, when you add someone as a "Named Insured" on a commercial liability policy, that person/entity is covered BEFORE you are. So, if something terrible went down and both you and BO were found liable, it is possible that your BO could exhaust your policy before you ever got to use it.
        "A horse gallops with his lungs, perseveres with his heart, and wins with his character." - Tesio

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        • #24
          It's new but getting more popular in our litigation loving society where insurance companies go after everybody remotely involved with a claim-separate from any negligence suits brought privately by the injured.

          Most of the horse insurance underwriters offer it through their horse insurance agents, no State Farm does not and most home owners policies do not cover any damage/injury caused by your horse when in the care custody and control of another paid to assume that CCC. I don't know what the additional USEF insurance purchased does or does not include, do know the basic coverage you get as a member at no charge only covers at competitions and then only after your primary insurance is exhausted.

          Call the horse insurance people and ask about "Private Horse Owner Liability Coverage". Ask BO what company they use, that would be easiest. IIRC I paid under 200 a year for 1 million in liability as a requirement of boarding at a show barn. Started about 2005 I think.

          It was prompted by another trainer who had a hit/skip driver tear out 100 feet of pasture board fence in the wee hours of a rainy night out of earshot of the house. Horses wandered out, got hit by a car on the twisting rural 2 lane putting 3 people in the hospital and totaling that car and another that managed to hit the wreck AND a first responder and his car before they could get the flares out.

          Insurance companies involved went after the barn owner, the trainer leasing the property AND the OWNERS of the involved horses-one dead and two severely injured running up thousands in vet bills. All involved were under insured or lacked coverage. Local law enforcement lacked the resources to devote to finding the driver who took the fence out and it's not clear if s/he would have been financially responsible for the damage caused by the horses being out. It is assumed it was the neighbor with the beat up truck with new front end damage, expired tags and no license or insurance due to DUIs so wouldn't solve anything anyway.

          Accident victims sued everybody, insurance companies sued BO, trainer and horse owners, horse owners sued barn owner and trainer in return to recoup judgements against them as owners of the "offending animals".

          Additional liability seems reasonable for situations where multiple persons are responsible for caring for a horse.
          When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

          The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

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          • #25
            Originally posted by AlterTops View Post
            Am I the only one who has never heard of this??

            I've boarded at barns ranging from backyard to AA show barns, and have never come across this, or even heard it talked about?? Maybe I've just gotten lucky??
            Nope! Not the only one. I am in the same boat, I have boarded at kinds of places including the "big" training center out here, large 200+ horse boarding stables, small boarding stables, and private ranches - and have not (yet!) been asked to provide insurance.


            Originally posted by Coreene View Post
            At our barn, we need to carry a one million dollar liability policy with the barn and city added as named insured (our barn is on city property).
            Just curious, approximately how much does a policy like this cost in annual premium?
            APPSOLUTE CHOCKLATE - Photo by Kathy Colman

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            • #26
              Originally posted by Appsolute View Post
              Just curious, approximately how much does a policy like this cost in annual premium?
              Couple hundred a year for a million in liability, like 15, 20 bucks a month if you break it down. I did not have either mortality or MM on the horse at the time either (too old), maybe it's cheaper if you "bundle".
              When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

              The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

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              • #27
                Originally posted by Appsolute View Post
                Just curious, approximately how much does a policy like this cost in annual premium?
                IIRC I pay $260 per year. That's for the liability policy.

                Comment


                • #28
                  As others have said, he is asking you to list him as a named insured on your policy. This doesn't cost anything extra.

                  I keep my horses at my parent's house. I carry a liability policy on my horses, and both my parents are listed as named insured on my policy. This is because I keep them on their property. If my horses get out and cause a car wreck, my policy covers me as their owner, and if the policy maximum isn't exhausted in an incident, it would cover damages to my parent's as well should someone decide to go after them as landowner of where the horses are kept.

                  It doesn't cost anything extra.
                  "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."

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                  • #29
                    I have only heard of this requirement at stables on land that are owned by government agencies, one is a City as is Coreene's case and the other is at a stable that is at the fairgrounds own by the State. Both places are in California.

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                    • #30
                      I'm in Ohio and many of the the other area AA show barns as well as regular AA circuit barns from all over are either requiring it or strongly suggesting its a good idea for all concerned. It's also being suggested to them by their own insurance carriers.

                      With a show string on the road most of the year and heavy foot traffic in the home barn? Lots of people handling the horse care and lots of exposure to situations where Murphy can strike without warning, they get loose and cause damage, they kick or bite a visitor...stuff happens and, increasingly, somebody is going to have to pay.
                      When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                      The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by Donkerbruin View Post
                        FYI, when you add someone as a "Named Insured" on a commercial liability policy, that person/entity is covered BEFORE you are. So, if something terrible went down and both you and BO were found liable, it is possible that your BO could exhaust your policy before you ever got to use it.
                        Is this correct?
                        Auventera Two:Some women would eat their own offspring if they had some dipping sauce.
                        Serious Leigh: it sounds like her drama llama should be an old schoolmaster by now.

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                        • #32
                          Originally posted by RockinHorse View Post
                          Is this correct?
                          Yes. I'm an insurance agent.
                          "A horse gallops with his lungs, perseveres with his heart, and wins with his character." - Tesio

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by Donkerbruin View Post
                            FYI, when you add someone as a "Named Insured" on a commercial liability policy, that person/entity is covered BEFORE you are. So, if something terrible went down and both you and BO were found liable, it is possible that your BO could exhaust your policy before you ever got to use it.
                            Is this the same with a personal liability umbrella policy?
                            Alis volat propriis.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by Donkerbruin View Post
                              Yes. I'm an insurance agent.
                              Good to know. I do have liability insurance but no additional named issuered. This would make me very hesitant to add someone to my policy since we all know, in the case of an accident, EVERYONE gets sued.
                              Auventera Two:Some women would eat their own offspring if they had some dipping sauce.
                              Serious Leigh: it sounds like her drama llama should be an old schoolmaster by now.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by bluemooncowgirl View Post
                                Is this the same with a personal liability umbrella policy?
                                I primarily write business with Nationwide. On a Nationwide personal umbrella policy, I cannot add an additional insured who is not a member of the household. The rules might differ from company to company, but then again the policy is called a PERSONAL umbrella policy, so I would doubt that adding a non-household member would be allowed anywhere.

                                Disclaimer: I'm in North Carolina and all insurance rules vary by state.
                                "A horse gallops with his lungs, perseveres with his heart, and wins with his character." - Tesio

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Thanks, I'm in NC as well, but horseless so it doesn't apply to me in a boarding barn scenario as presented in the OP.
                                  Alis volat propriis.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by JT's Bank View Post
                                    RE "Coreene": Yes, I got personal liability insurance through USEF but that covers me in case of accident. He wants me to buy something to cover him which I don't get since I'm not a commercial entity or trying to run a business.

                                    Also, from other posts on COTH, I got that the USEF insurance may be supplemental, but in the absence of other insurance, would still cover you. Which company do you get your insurance from if you don't mind sharing?

                                    Two different things.
                                    A- There is insurance that you get automatically as a USEF member. THAT is supplemental/backup insurance

                                    B- There is insurance that you buy THROUGH USEF. You are getting your own insurance, and you are paying premiums, but you get a USEF discount. (I got my farmowners insurance "through" USEF. SInce the initial contact, USEF has not been involved (except that I need to be a USEF member to get the discount). I deal directly with the agent and the insurance company.)
                                    Janet

                                    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by Donkerbruin View Post
                                      I primarily write business with Nationwide. On a Nationwide personal umbrella policy, I cannot add an additional insured who is not a member of the household. The rules might differ from company to company, but then again the policy is called a PERSONAL umbrella policy, so I would doubt that adding a non-household member would be allowed anywhere.

                                      Disclaimer: I'm in North Carolina and all insurance rules vary by state.
                                      I'm pretty sure this is standard insurance practice - generally you can't name someone as an additional insured on a personal policy. Commercial general liability insurance, sure, you can do that, but not on personal policies.

                                      But the posters here have it right - everyone wants to be named as an additional insured, so YOUR insurance can be their primary rather than their own. I wouldn't do it, and I doubt it is even possible. I would be very interested to hear the outcome of this one. I handle insurance certificates / contracts for a big company, and I'm always interested in strange insurance puzzles.
                                      "Look, I'm trying not to test the durability of the arena with my face!" (Because only GM can do that.)

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by Fun Size View Post
                                        I'm pretty sure this is standard insurance practice - generally you can't name someone as an additional insured on a personal policy. Commercial general liability insurance, sure, you can do that, but not on personal policies.

                                        But the posters here have it right - everyone wants to be named as an additional insured, so YOUR insurance can be their primary rather than their own. I wouldn't do it, and I doubt it is even possible. I would be very interested to hear the outcome of this one. I handle insurance certificates / contracts for a big company, and I'm always interested in strange insurance puzzles.
                                        When I lease my barn I'm required by my carrier to ensure that my tennant has a level of coverage that my carrier names and that they receive a Certificate of Insurance proving the coverage. The carrier does this to put themself in a "second tier" coverage position. Of course they have no liability unless I'm named a defendant and am found negligent after an injury.

                                        Many national organizations that promote local events require the the local sponsor of the event carry a minimum of liability coverage and the promotor be added to the local policy as an Additional Named Insured. The promotor, of course, carries their own coverage but also does not want to be in the position of the primary insurer of the event.

                                        When I actively ran the barn I did not require boarders to have liability coverage nor did I ask to be named on their policy if they did. I always carried my own coverage to protect my interests. If I lived in a state with a particularly activist judiciary I might have taken a different tack.

                                        Coverage is invoked when a claim is made. Who did what to whom (or didn't do what to/for whom) determines the priority of liability and that determines whose policy will answer in damages.

                                        G.
                                        Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by Fun Size View Post
                                          I'm pretty sure this is standard insurance practice - generally you can't name someone as an additional insured on a personal policy. Commercial general liability insurance, sure, you can do that, but not on personal policies.

                                          But the posters here have it right - everyone wants to be named as an additional insured, so YOUR insurance can be their primary rather than their own. I wouldn't do it, and I doubt it is even possible. I would be very interested to hear the outcome of this one. I handle insurance certificates / contracts for a big company, and I'm always interested in strange insurance puzzles.
                                          Private Horse Owner Insurahce, which I carry, is not commercial insurance. I am required by the barn's owner and by the city my barn is in - which is on propery leased from the city - to have them as named insured on my policy, as is every other boarder at my barn. My barn carries their own insurance, which is of course a commercial policy.

                                          But it is fascinating to see how many people insist this isn't possible, or that it's at only one or two barns.

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