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Amazing Photos - Horses/Chariot Found in Thracian Tomb!

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  • #21
    Their heads are propped up with flat rocks. They were positioned there. I would not be surprised if they discovered some sort of other prop under them when they get to that part of the excavation.

    I also do not think the green colored metal disk was part of the harness, I think it was placed on their heads after the horses died. If it was part of the harness there would be other buckles and evidence of a bit. I believe they are assuming it was a decorative piece of the harness.



    Originally posted by Cindyg View Post
    If they slit the horses' necks, how did they get the corpses standing upright while they packed dirt around them?
    www.facebook.com/doggonegoodgoodies
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    • #22
      Originally posted by Cindyg View Post
      If they slit the horses' necks, how did they get the corpses standing upright while they packed dirt around them?
      If they can build pyramids/the colosseum/everything else in that era/area, I trust they can bury a horse upright.

      Comment


      • #23
        Originally posted by GoForAGallop View Post
        If they can build pyramids, I trust they can bury a horse upright.

        I find all the fainting and pearl clutching and talk about animals not understanding honor a little ridiculous, considering the brutality present in a lot of factory meat/egg/dairy farms today, now, in this country, with not even any sort of religious validation. To me, that seems a little more offensive than animals going to the grave with their people 2,500 years ago.
        Don't you say.
        Who is pearl clutching here?

        Those cattle are handled in a way no one should faint over and never saw it coming, no brutality there, none at all:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMqYYXswono

        It will be interesting to see what else they find once they get to the bottom.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by Bluey View Post
          Don't you say.
          Who is pearl clutching here?
          :
          I deleted it because I decided it wasn't relevant to the conversation at hand.

          To boil it down to a single sentence: with all the things that are done to animals, I hardly think that a couple of beloved horses going quickly and quietly alongside their owners 2,500 years ago is something to get upset about.

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          • #25
            Originally posted by GoForAGallop View Post
            I deleted it because I decided it wasn't relevant to the conversation at hand.

            To boil it down to a single sentence: with all the things that are done to animals, I hardly think that a couple of beloved horses going quickly and quietly alongside their owners 2,500 years ago is something to get upset about.
            People's sensitivities tend to run a wide spectrum, don't they.

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            • #26
              Originally posted by Bluey View Post
              Religious beliefs can make societies do awful things in the name of their gods.
              Still does today.
              well, most wars have been fought in the name of religion...

              In any case, daily we kill thousands of animals for no reason.
              I mean NO reason, not even food, or leather...

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              • #27
                Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
                well, most wars have been fought in the name of religion...

                In any case, daily we kill thousands of animals for no reason.
                I mean NO reason, not even food, or leather...
                You telling me.

                I did volunteer work at our local animal control shelter for long time and I still can't believe we are so carelessly killing millions every day, to no purpose at all.

                Those that died and were buried with, of all things, their horses, were not thinking about what is right for their horses.
                Would those horses at least not have been of better use alive, for who is left behind?

                We can have strange beliefs, don't we.

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
                  well, most wars have been fought in the name of religion...

                  In any case, daily we kill thousands of animals for no reason.
                  I mean NO reason, not even food, or leather...
                  Based upon my study of history I find this to be false.

                  The war might be fought in the name of regligion but the true purpose is generally secular. Religion is the handmaiden of the state universally until one event happens to break the chain. Care to venture a guess what that event was?

                  Even after this event God/god/gods are routinely invoked so maybe the chain just got a bit kinked, not actually broken.

                  In all of this I'm reminded of an observation of that great American philosopher, "Bandit" Darvill, who noted that how smart you are depends on where you happen to be standing. If he thought about it, I'm sure he'd add the fact of when you happen to be standing there.

                  G.
                  Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

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                  • #29
                    Sorry, but those "metal disk decorations" look suspiciously like the head of a brain bolt to me. If I wanted a burial to be perfect, and the deceased favorite chariot horses to remain in place without moving, a shot in the brain is the absolute solution. Horse is dead immediately where it stands, no muss, no fuss.

                    If they were merely harness decoration, they would have been wisked away by the archeologists immediately to prevent their loss.

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                    • #30
                      Alagirl is right when she said "most wars are fought in the name of religion.

                      Religion has been used as the catalyst for hatred and killing since humans stood upright and invented Gods. Doesn't mean that the true reason isn't actually land grabbing or economically motivated. Religion merely makes war legitimate and "rightious" in the eyes of the aggressor.

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                      • #31
                        Originally posted by 5chestnuts View Post
                        Sorry, but those "metal disk decorations" look suspiciously like the head of a brain bolt to me. If I wanted a burial to be perfect, and the deceased favorite chariot horses to remain in place without moving, a shot in the brain is the absolute solution. Horse is dead immediately where it stands, no muss, no fuss.

                        If they were merely harness decoration, they would have been wisked away by the archeologists immediately to prevent their loss.
                        They wouldn't be, if they were fused with the bone. Additionally, I'm not sure that captive bolt devices were a big thing 2,500 years ago.

                        They look identical to what you see on this pot from the same era: http://www.romanianhistoryandculture...tianhorses.png

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          I have to agree with 5chestnuts. I think those decorations are suspicious. If they were part of the harness, I doubt whether they would remain on the head during the excavation. And they certainly wouldn't fuse with the bone. As the skin sloughed off during decomposition, the decorations would have also slid off.

                          And a bolt would easily precede the knife or most forms of ritual killing where the object was treasured, not reviled, and needed to remain firmly in place at dispatch.

                          Why do people nowadays think that our modern society invented everything, or that past cultures and civilizations were stupid and inept?? These people lived much closer to big animals than our current western culture does at the moment, so means of dispatching animals quickly with little to no blood would have been part and parcel of their husbandry. They could very well have had a captive bolt mechanism that used a hammer rather than gunpowder. And there is nothing to say they didn't drug up the horses with a herbal that kept them both calm and tractable.

                          I wish people didn't judge past western civilizations by the "Conan The Barbarian" movie image. Many civilizations from the distant past were WAY more advanced in their time with technology, science, trade, economy, education, and knowledge when compared toe to toe to us in ours.

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                          • #33
                            Originally posted by gothedistance View Post
                            I have to agree with 5chestnuts. I think those decorations are suspicious. If they were part of the harness, I doubt whether they would remain on the head during the excavation. And they certainly wouldn't fuse with the bone. As the skin sloughed off during decomposition, the decorations would have also slid off.

                            And a bolt would easily precede the knife or most forms of ritual killing where the object was treasured, not reviled, and needed to remain firmly in place at dispatch.

                            Why do people nowadays think that our modern society invented everything, or that past cultures and civilizations were stupid and inept?? These people lived much closer to big animals than our current western culture does at the moment, so means of dispatching animals quickly with little to no blood would have been part and parcel of their husbandry. They could very well have had a captive bolt mechanism that used a hammer rather than gunpowder. And there is nothing to say they didn't drug up the horses with a herbal that kept them both calm and tractable.

                            I wish people didn't judge past western civilizations by the "Conan The Barbarian" movie image. Many civilizations from the distant past were WAY more advanced in their time with technology, science, trade, economy, education, and knowledge when compared toe to toe to us in ours.
                            Can you show me some evidence, any evidence, that such a method of killing was ever used? Considering how long ago they lived, we know an awful lot about them, from daily life to warfare. They had bolt-type devices, but they were crossbows used for warfare, not something that you'd shoot an animal with at close range.

                            Did you see the picture above of the piece of pottery with the horses in harness? The disks are in the exact same spot. If you look at this photo of the horses in question: http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/...19_634x477.jpg by their right ears (or at the left of the skulls, from the photographers viewpoint) you can see more metal remains. The horse on our left also has a piece of metal on the our-right side of it's nose, a little above the nostrils. If you look at this photo from a different viewpoint: http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/...63_634x474.jpg you'll see that the decoration down by the nose is the exact same "bolt" shape as the one up on the forehead.

                            I did already mention that grave companions, human and animal alike, were often drugged. You don't get whole households of servants into a pit to be killed just by telling them, with no panic, no matter how well-trained they are.

                            I'm not "judging them" as less than us, it's just a culture that I've found fascinating and we know, from first-hand sources, that the usual method of death was slit throats, for even the most holiest of holy animals.

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                            • #34
                              I found this incredibly interesting. Not just the article, but the discussion on the board as well.

                              I suspect the drugged the horses, then packed the dirt around them, propped thier heads up and cut their throats.

                              I can't suspect what the metal pieces on their heads are, but I am sure there will be further investigation. I would love to see the Chariot when they unearth it.
                              Chambermaid to....
                              Lilly
                              Reggie

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                              • #35
                                Originally posted by 5chestnuts View Post
                                Alagirl is right when she said "most wars are fought in the name of religion.

                                Religion has been used as the catalyst for hatred and killing since humans stood upright and invented Gods. Doesn't mean that the true reason isn't actually land grabbing or economically motivated. Religion merely makes war legitimate and "rightious" in the eyes of the aggressor.
                                Hence the saying: men of god and men of war have strange affinities.
                                AETERNUM VALE, INVICTUS - 7/10/2012

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by 5chestnuts View Post
                                  Sorry, but those "metal disk decorations" look suspiciously like the head of a brain bolt to me. If I wanted a burial to be perfect, and the deceased favorite chariot horses to remain in place without moving, a shot in the brain is the absolute solution. Horse is dead immediately where it stands, no muss, no fuss.

                                  If they were merely harness decoration, they would have been wisked away by the archeologists immediately to prevent their loss.
                                  I should add... brain bolts stun by destroying the cortex, they don't usually kill. That comes later.
                                  AETERNUM VALE, INVICTUS - 7/10/2012

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by Guilherme View Post
                                    Based upon my study of history I find this to be false.

                                    The war might be fought in the name of regligion but the true purpose is generally secular. Religion is the handmaiden of the state universally until one event happens to break the chain. Care to venture a guess what that event was?

                                    Even after this event God/god/gods are routinely invoked so maybe the chain just got a bit kinked, not actually broken.

                                    In all of this I'm reminded of an observation of that great American philosopher, "Bandit" Darvill, who noted that how smart you are depends on where you happen to be standing. If he thought about it, I'm sure he'd add the fact of when you happen to be standing there.

                                    G.
                                    Thank you for extending my thoughts.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by 5chestnuts View Post
                                      Sorry, but those "metal disk decorations" look suspiciously like the head of a brain bolt to me. If I wanted a burial to be perfect, and the deceased favorite chariot horses to remain in place without moving, a shot in the brain is the absolute solution. Horse is dead immediately where it stands, no muss, no fuss.

                                      If they were merely harness decoration, they would have been wisked away by the archeologists immediately to prevent their loss.
                                      I doubt 500 BC they would have used a bolt. A hammer, yes, or a mace.

                                      The heads were propped up and covered with dirt, it's most likely that it was some sort of copper or bronze disc, meant to adorn the horse.

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by hundredacres View Post
                                        I don't think the horses or the dog understood that it was an honor. It's sad that it happened just like it would be sad today. Religion and culture shouldn't make it okay.
                                        Animals do not understand any of that, They do not understand death, they just do not reason like humans. come on!

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