• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 2/8/18)
See more
See less

Stalkers, Jail Time for selling your horse and more ....yes, about Carriage Horses

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #81
    Originally posted by MandyVA View Post
    Maybe those of you inclined to offer suggestions would be interested in seeing a glimpse into what the industry is really up against:

    http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...GS04/130929970
    Can the carriage assn. go after NYCLASS for not reporting their donors, as they are required to do?

    Did any of the candidates they supported win? If so, is it possible to try to get an investigation into those candidates going, for "shady dealings" with NYCLASS to discredit their positions? If people feel the candidates were "bought" might that weaken their position, and give you strength to at least delay any ruling that might come in the future regarding carriage horses?

    Comment


    • #82
      Originally posted by MandyVA View Post
      Maybe those of you inclined to offer suggestions would be interested in seeing a glimpse into what the industry is really up against:

      http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...GS04/130929970
      Thank you, Mandy, for once again trying to get the thread back on track....

      ....and for those who are link allergic:

      he U.S. Supreme Court's watershed 2010 Citizens United decision allowing unlimited spending by outside groups came with a caveat: Corporations, unions and individuals had to keep that spending independent of campaigns. Any political consulting firm that works for a campaign, while simultaneously working for one of the so-called "Super PACs" that have since sprung up in the court ruling's wake, is walking a fine line.

      Prominent New York political consulting firm The Advance Group and one of its clients, the anti-horse carriage group New Yorkers for Clean Livable And Safe Streets, known as NYCLASS, pushed close to that line, if not across it, in several City Council races this year. While NYCLASS was paying the firm to wage "independent" campaigns to help certain council candidates, the firm was separately representing some of those same candidates. Any potential coordination is taken seriously by the city's Campaign Finance Board, an agency that has levied stiff penalties in the past in an attempt to level the playing field for candidates enrolled in the city's taxpayer-funded campaign system.

      New state campaign finance records show that NYCLASS spent $202,000 in the days leading up to the Sept. 10 primary elections on candidates that support animal rights. More than $137,000 of that went to the Advance Group, NYCLASS' political consulting and lobbying firm. Among the candidates that received support from NYCLASS were Democratic primary victors Laurie Cumbo of Brooklyn and Mark Levine of Manhattan, as well as losing Manhattan City Council candidate Yetta Kurland.

      At the same time, The Advance Group served as a campaign consultant for Ms. Cumbo and Mr. Levine, and had served as Mr. Kurland's consultant through April, reaping more than $150,000 in total from those campaigns. Especially in the cases of Ms. Cumbo and Mr. Levine, that raises the question of how NYCLASS' spending to promote them could have been independent of those campaigns.

      In order to determine whether coordination has taken place between a candidate and an outside group, the city Campaign Finance Board considers factors such as whether the person making an independent expenditure is also an agent of the candidate that is benefiting, and whether they share office space.

      Chelsea Connor, a spokeswoman for The Advance Group said via email that, "Any independent expenditures, by definition, were not coordinated with the campaigns and were conducted independently of those campaigns." She did not answer follow-up questions about how the efforts were kept separate.

      The crossover between NYCLASS and The Advance Group is extensive. They list the same office address, 39 Broadway, Suite 1740, in Manhattan. The NYCLASS website lists Advance Group president and founder Scott Levenson as its political director. The spokeswoman for NYCLASS, The Advance Group, Ms. Cumbo's campaign and Mr. Levine's campaign is the same person: Ms. Connor.

      When NYCLASS made its endorsements for City Council this summer, press releases from Ms. Connor touting the nonprofit's news were at times immediately followed by releases from Ms. Connor touting those endorsements for Advance Group-represented candidates. NYCLASS endorsed Advance Group clients in a number of council races, but not all of them.

      City Council candidates enrolled in the taxpayer matching funds system cannot spend more than $168,000. In a required post-election Campaign Finance Board audit, if the agency finds coordinated spending between a campaign and an outside group, that spending counts against the cap, which in some instances can result in heavy repayment penalties or fines. For instance, former Brooklyn City Council candidate Joseph Lazar was slapped with fines and repayments of more than $200,000 earlier this year, in part because he was found to have gotten extensive coordinated outside financial help from a political ally, Brooklyn Assemblyman Dov Hikind.

      "A candidate who benefits from unreported coordinated spending could gain a significant advantage, via potential over-the-limit contributions and violations of the expenditure limit, over opponents who follow the rules," said Campaign Finance Board spokesman Matthew Sollars, who declined to comment on the specifics of NYCLASS' spending. "Throughout its 25-year history, the board has a strong record of vigorously and consistently enforcing the law in this area."

      The NYCLASS campaign literature mailed on behalf of Ms. Cumbo, Mr. Levine and Ms. Kurland were printed by a firm called Trade Media Partners, which lists a New Jersey address. The firm also printed mailers for Ms. Kurland's campaign, records show.

      The Advance Group, meanwhile, was paid by NYCLASS for live phone banking, "wages," a voter file and other expenses. According to NYCLASS' filings with the Campaign Finance Board, no phone banking was done out of the Advance Group offices for Ms. Cumbo or Mr. Levine, although it was done for Ms. Kurland. In total, NYCLASS spent more than $26,000 on behalf of Ms. Kurland just for mailers and phone banking, and more than $7,000 on mailers for both Ms. Cumbo and Mr. Levine.

      It's not clear how NYCLASS funded the operation: Despite reporting $207,000 in spending, it lists receiving only a single $5,000 contribution, leaving its campaign committee $202,000 in debt. Outside groups, including nonprofits, are required to report their donors to the Campaign Finance Board, according to a spokesman for the agency, but NYCLASS has not done so.

      As The Insider has previously reported, both NYCLASS and its founder, Steve Nislick, spent vastly more than allowed under state election law this year on a campaign to undermine the mayoral candidacy of Christine Quinn, raising the question of how the nonprofit funded its later efforts in council races. The sole $5,000 contribution to NYCLASS came from the anti-Quinn group NYC Is Not For Sale.

      It's also not clear why the NYCLASS spending was only reported as beginning in September, shielding much of it from public view until after the Sept. 10 election. NYCLASS' website has been listing phone banking events for council candidates, held in the offices of The Advance Group, for months.

      The Advance Group, which touts itself as a leading progressive consulting firm, was also a consultant this year for an outside group called the City Action Coalition. The group spent more that $114,000 promoting candidates who oppose gay marriage and abortion rights, including spending in three races where gay candidates were running.
      VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

      https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts

      Comment


      • #83
        Originally posted by Lynnwood View Post
        How does that prove her point when the law states it doesn't apply to anything other then public road ways and schooling establishments.

        It isn't saying the law isn't enforced its saying it only applys. Those are different don't you think ?

        Although I do like how they handle their summons and fines if there is one written.
        This has been argued to death on the other thread. Here is the law. It says nothing about private property.

        http://www.agriculture.ny.gov/AI/HelmetLaws.pdf



        § 1265. Wearing of helmets. 1. No person less than fourteen years of
        age shall ride a horse unless such person is wearing a helmet meeting or
        exceeding ASTM F1163 (Safety Equipment Institute certified) Equestrian
        Standard. For purposes of this section, "certified" shall mean that the
        helmet's manufacturer agrees to the rules and provisions of a system
        that includes independent testing and quality control audits, and that
        each helmet manufactured by such manufacturer is permanently marked with
        the certifying body's registered mark or logo before such helmet is sold
        or offered for sale. For the purposes of this section, wearing a helmet
        means having a helmet fastened securely upon the head using the
        manufacturer's fitting guidelines for the particular model used.
        2. Any person who violates the provisions of this section shall pay a
        civil fine not to exceed fifty dollars. A police officer shall only
        issue a summons for a violation of this section by a person less than
        fourteen years of age to the parent or guardian of such person if the
        violation by such person occurs in the presence of such person's parent
        or guardian and where such parent or guardian is eighteen years of age
        or more. Such summons shall only be issued to such parent or guardian,
        and shall not be issued to the person less than fourteen years of age.
        3. (a) The court shall waive any civil fine for which a person who
        violates the provisions of this section would be liable if such person
        supplies the court with proof that between the date of violation and the
        appearance date for such violation such person purchased or rented a
        helmet.
        (b) The court may waive any civil fine for which a person who violates
        the provisions of the section would be liable if the court finds that
        due to reasons of economic hardship such person was unable to purchase a
        helmet.
        4. The failure of any person to comply with the provisions of this
        section shall not constitute contributory negligence or assumption of
        risk, and shall not in any way bar, preclude or foreclose an action for
        personal injury or wrongful death by or on behalf of such person, nor in
        any way diminish or reduce the damages recoverable in any such action.

        ETA: I have been corrected...the above is just a change to one section of the law, the previous law stands. Lynnwood is right.
        Last edited by LauraKY; Sep. 25, 2013, 09:10 AM.

        Comment


        • #84
          and this train has been hoisted off the track....

          Comment


          • #85
            As it states the helmet law does not include pony ride vendors. IOW it plainly states that the guardian or parent of the minor is liable for following the law/providing the helmet. If a pony ride vendor does not supply/provide helmets, the vendor is not in violation unless their own child under the age of 14 rides a pony. It's up to each parent or guardian to helmet the child.

            Now that's not to say that it wouldn't be nice if ride vendors had helmets available for parents to use on their children if they choose to. But it's not legally required. And I've yet to see a single pony ride vendor use them/provide them. So I'm not going to fault this one place/person for operating legally and doing the same thing every single pony ride place also does.

            Same reason not to fault western riders for not wearing helmets or dressage riders, etc. I would prefer that they do, I won't slam them online if they don't. Even if it does raise insurance rates. Because even if everyone who ever sits on or gets within kicking distance to a horse does start wearing helmets it's not like insurance rates will go down. The companies will pocket the extra income.
            You jump in the saddle,
            Hold onto the bridle!
            Jump in the line!
            ...Belefonte

            Comment


            • #86
              Originally posted by MistyBlue View Post
              As it states the helmet law does not include pony ride vendors. IOW it plainly states that the guardian or parent of the minor is liable for following the law/providing the helmet. If a pony ride vendor does not supply/provide helmets, the vendor is not in violation unless their own child under the age of 14 rides a pony. It's up to each parent or guardian to helmet the child.

              Now that's not to say that it wouldn't be nice if ride vendors had helmets available for parents to use on their children if they choose to. But it's not legally required. And I've yet to see a single pony ride vendor use them/provide them. So I'm not going to fault this one place/person for operating legally and doing the same thing every single pony ride place also does.

              Same reason not to fault western riders for not wearing helmets or dressage riders, etc. I would prefer that they do, I won't slam them online if they don't. Even if it does raise insurance rates. Because even if everyone who ever sits on or gets within kicking distance to a horse does start wearing helmets it's not like insurance rates will go down. The companies will pocket the extra income.
              The point was not what the helmet law does/doesn't cover...
              ... but that it exists.
              And is un-enforced.

              Just as many other laws are on the books but largely ignored.
              Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

              http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

              Comment


              • #87
                Very true, way too many safety inspired laws are ignored or go unenforced.
                You jump in the saddle,
                Hold onto the bridle!
                Jump in the line!
                ...Belefonte

                Comment


                • #88
                  Originally posted by Angela Freda View Post
                  The point was not what the helmet law does/doesn't cover...
                  ... but that it exists.
                  And is un-enforced.

                  .
                  As it should be in a free country. Intelligent people make their own choices, without BIG BROTHER telling us how to live, work, and play. Maybe "some" of you are idiots and don't know how to gage your own risks.

                  Comment


                  • #89
                    "Replace Carriage Horses with Vintage Tourist-Friendly Vehicles in Parks

                    Bill de Blasio will end the inhumane treatment of carriage horses and supports an immediate ban on abuse of carriage horses. We can provide a humane retirement of all New York City carriage horses to sanctuaries, and replace them with electric, vintage-replica tourist-friendly vehicles that provide jobs for current drivers. "

                    ...because everyone wants to make a marriage proposal in the romantic electric vintage car (now isn't that an oxymoron!).
                    And people just love offering them apples and carrots, and perhaps interacting by petting or touching their warm, slick fur or soft noses.
                    And they make such a nostalgic clop/clop sound going down the street.
                    Where do you put the winter carriage bells, though?

                    This is replacing the apples in a pie with Ritz crackers...
                    or Holiday turkey with tofu...

                    say it ain't so.


                    top speed 35 mph
                    http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...k-horses/?_r=0

                    Comment


                    • #90
                      Except that the long-promised cars are way behind schedule, and there's not even a working prototype yet. I'd guess if you followed the money, you would find that the car designer has some sort of connection to the anti carriage people. This puts de Blasio in the awkward position of wanting to ban the carriages, without being able to offer alternate jobs for the drivers.
                      It's 2018. Do you know where your old horse is?

                      www.streamhorsetv.com -- website with horse show livestream listings and links.

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #91
                        Originally posted by D_BaldStockings View Post

                        And they make such a nostalgic clop/clop sound going down the street.
                        They can always use the Trotify http://trotify.com/ but I doubt it will be the same....

                        This is replacing the apples in a pie with Ritz crackers...
                        or Holiday turkey with tofu...
                        but isn't that what most of them want? To have us all become tofu eaters?
                        Every man has a right to his opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts.
                        Bernard M. Baruch

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #92
                          Originally posted by Amwrider View Post
                          Then with your EXTENSIVE legal background, I am sure every lawyer and every DA (even retired DAs) are aware of terms such as "libel"...."hearsay" How about this....you with your legal definition tell us what those terms are and then tell me how you are not committing them?
                          Cloudyandcallie? Please answer this. I know you have been on COTH since I posted this. Is there some reason you are now, all of a sudden AVOIDING a carriage horse thread instead of jumping right on in and parroting what Elizabeth Forel tells you to post here
                          Every man has a right to his opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts.
                          Bernard M. Baruch

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #93
                            Originally posted by cloudyandcallie View Post
                            The carriage people have bullied and carried on like mean girls in high school. They have, in my google research, posted that the Foret woman is "Lizzie Fecal." lot of poor class by the carriage people. I'm not on FB, so I don't know what they've done there.
                            You know? While you are at it, please post your "google research" because I could never find any references to "lizzie Fecal" other than google pointing to your threads right here. Please show your references?
                            Every man has a right to his opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts.
                            Bernard M. Baruch

                            Comment


                            • #94
                              Originally posted by Fenfox1 View Post
                              As it should be in a free country. Intelligent people make their own choices, without BIG BROTHER telling us how to live, work, and play. Maybe "some" of you are idiots and don't know how to gage your own risks.
                              I know how to spell gauge, does that count?

                              I'm smart enough to know that horses trip, and Olympic level riders like Courtney King-Dye get hurt.
                              I think she's a very Intelligent person, who made her own choice, followed the 'norm' of not wearing a helmet in her discipline... and her life is forever changed because of it, because she had an accident that could have happened to ANY of us on ANY horse.

                              I'm smart enough to know that I am not as good at riding as Courtney and that even if I were, the best way to protect myself, my family, and the community [who picks up the tab when my family runs out of money for my care if I end up in a nursing home in a vegetative state due getting a TBI from a fall ] is to wear an approved helmet. Every Time. Every Ride.

                              I'm also smart enough to know that kids, under the age of 18 [and IMO older] are not the best judges of what is and isn't smart or wise or 'risky' and often need protecting from even themselves. The late maturation of the teen/young adult brain and the fact that they make poor, risky choices is now quite widely understood and accepted.
                              I know that requiring that they wear helmets when they ride [and use car seat when they are small and seat belts after they are older/bigger- as an example of another way Big Brother invades out privacy and freedom to use our 'intelligence'] is the best way to protect them in those situations... so that they and their families do not suffer a horrible loss, or worse, the burden and cost of caring for someone who is terribly disabled.

                              It IS all about gauging risks, but it's also about being Intelligent enough to recognize that some activities, even when one is very skilled at them, are inherently risky and that not all potentialities can be avoided strictly by being 'good' at something.
                              Last edited by Angela Freda; Sep. 25, 2013, 08:46 AM. Reason: spelling
                              Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

                              http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

                              Comment


                              • #95
                                Originally posted by pony4me View Post
                                . I'd guess if you followed the money, you would find that the car designer has some sort of connection to the anti carriage people. .
                                I believe this has been found to be true.

                                Comment


                                • #96
                                  Originally posted by Lynnwood View Post
                                  I read some article that it possibly did not cover persons riding on private property anyone know anything about that ?

                                  Editing found the article its fairly recent and says

                                  "The law has only been enforced on roads open to public traffic and will not likely affect children riding at private stables, horse shows or on most trails."

                                  http://www.horsechannel.com/horse-ne...elmet-law.aspx

                                  Sorry not trying to hijack just was unsure about context of how the law was written vs interpreted.

                                  This article also points out that the amendment only applies to horses ridden on public roads
                                  "[COLOR=#000000] the statute only applies to riding horses upon highways and public roads open to public motor vehicle traffic and would not apply to "off road" events such as rodeos or horse shows in arenas."

                                  So if that is the case events such as pony rides unless they took place on a public road , the law would not apply to them.
                                  Lynnwood is right, and I was wrong. The new amendment does not change the rest of the law.

                                  Comment


                                  • #97
                                    Originally posted by MistyBlue View Post

                                    Same reason not to fault western riders for not wearing helmets or dressage riders, etc. I would prefer that they do, I won't slam them online if they don't. Even if it does raise insurance rates. Because even if everyone who ever sits on or gets within kicking distance to a horse does start wearing helmets it's not like insurance rates will go down. The companies will pocket the extra income.
                                    Not anymore they can't. They have to spend a minimum of 80% of the premium on direct health care costs.

                                    Avoidable injuries, like not wearing a helmet, directly impacts everyone's health care costs.

                                    Comment


                                    • #98
                                      Taking that argument further - a great way to avoid riding related injuries would be to stop people from riding horses at all.

                                      Just think how much we'd all save on health care costs.

                                      Maybe we'll all end up doing gentle stretching exercises under government supervision. Government knows best, after all.
                                      Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                                      Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                                      -Rudyard Kipling

                                      Comment


                                      • #99
                                        Originally posted by JSwan View Post
                                        Taking that argument further - a great way to avoid riding related injuries would be to stop people from riding horses at all.

                                        Just think how much we'd all save on health care costs.

                                        Maybe we'll all end up doing gentle stretching exercises under government supervision. Government knows best, after all.
                                        we can also skip going outdoors, eating, canoeing and....heck, living for that matter.


                                        The helmet discussion in this context is smoke and mirrors...
                                        and hmmm, guess who brought it up!

                                        Comment


                                        • Jojo at Clinton Park stables just wanted to wish everyone on COTH a lovely night!

                                          https://scontent-a-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/...80204797_n.jpg


                                          I mean really how cute is she ..that photo was taken this evening by the way.

                                          So much for the cramped , can't lay down insufficient stalling.
                                          "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X