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Lease/ legal question.

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  • Lease/ legal question.

    So I leased out my horse to what I thought to be a great family. Had some issues with them not following the contract to a t, but I worked with them so the child could keep the horse. A 30 day notice was given but the horse was returned to me that day as they had a new horse coming in and wanted her gone. No big deal. I was out of town so they hauled her to my barn and my mom met them. There is a bump above her eye. Could be a wart, but we aren't sure. My mom mentioned to them about calling the vet and they were game. I told my mom to wait until I got home and I would deal with it. Original I was told through a text that the bump had appeared about a week and half before she was returned. I spoke with them and how they would like to handle it. I was okay with treating it as if it were a wart for a month and seeing if it went away. If not then the vet would be called and they would be responsible for the bill because it happened while she was in their care. I thought this to be fair and within our contract as it states they are responsible for medical expenses during the lease. Standard right?
    Well I have now received emails stating they will not pay for anything because a vet looked at it when she was with them and said it was nothing. The vet had seen it when he pulled her coggins. Her coggins however are dated a month prior to her return so they dates don't add up. I have not been able to get ahold of the vet they used as of right now.

    My question, should they be held accountable for a vet visit if I can prove they never had the vet look at it? The mother of the child I leased my horse to said she will have her attorney contact me, but I would like to know opinions on if I'm out of line. The technicality on the lease says they are still considered to be in care of her for the 30 days after the notice was given. Does it become voided because she has even returned to me? I would never make them pay for anything that happens while I have her, but the horse didn't leave my place with this bump and I don't know what it is

  • #2
    Disclaimer - I am not a lawyer or even close to anything legal.

    It seems that if the 'injury' occurred while in their care they are responsible for it.

    Ask the mother to produce the vet records from when the vet looked at it.

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      I just spoke with the vet and in the morning he will give me a written statement that states he does not remember looking at a bump on her eye but does remember pulling the coggins.

      Comment


      • #4
        Wow! I am shocked the vet is willing to do that. Go RTR.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Ready To Riot View Post
          So I leased out my horse to what I thought to be a great family. Had some issues with them not following the contract to a t, but I worked with them so the child could keep the horse. A 30 day notice was given but the horse was returned to me that day as they had a new horse coming in and wanted her gone. No big deal. I was out of town so they hauled her to my barn and my mom met them. There is a bump above her eye. Could be a wart, but we aren't sure. My mom mentioned to them about calling the vet and they were game. I told my mom to wait until I got home and I would deal with it. Original I was told through a text that the bump had appeared about a week and half before she was returned. I spoke with them and how they would like to handle it. I was okay with treating it as if it were a wart for a month and seeing if it went away. If not then the vet would be called and they would be responsible for the bill because it happened while she was in their care. I thought this to be fair and within our contract as it states they are responsible for medical expenses during the lease. Standard right?
          Well I have now received emails stating they will not pay for anything because a vet looked at it when she was with them and said it was nothing. The vet had seen it when he pulled her coggins. Her coggins however are dated a month prior to her return so they dates don't add up. I have not been able to get ahold of the vet they used as of right now.

          My question, should they be held accountable for a vet visit if I can prove they never had the vet look at it? The mother of the child I leased my horse to said she will have her attorney contact me, but I would like to know opinions on if I'm out of line. The technicality on the lease says they are still considered to be in care of her for the 30 days after the notice was given. Does it become voided because she has even returned to me? I would never make them pay for anything that happens while I have her, but the horse didn't leave my place with this bump and I don't know what it is

          I think they are completely correct not to pay for it.

          It's a bump. It is not a giant gash from poor fencing, or a strained tendon. It's not a huge hematoma from an incorrectly-given shot. Unless I am misunderstanding your description, it is simply a bump. A bump that they, in no way, could have caused.

          It might be a bug bite, it might be a wart. A vet is probably going to poke at it, shrug, and tell you to keep an eye on it. If it's a wart, or a melanoma, again, that is not something that THEY have done to your horse, and they should not be responsible for it.

          I have a similar clause in my contract, but when my pony out on free lease came up with some sarcoids in his ears that were bothering him, I didn't, for one millisecond, think to require the leaser to pay for removing them. (Although she did kindly offer.) Sarcoids are not something that SHE caused, through bad care or neglect, which is the spirit of a vet clause in a lease. It is something his own weird little body did, and as his owner, I paid to have them removed.

          Comment


          • #6
            I'm not an attorney, but my question is what the lease states, if anything, regarding actual posession of the horse.

            Personally, I wouldn't go after them. After some of the horror stories we've read on this board, if a small bump is your largest gripe, lucky you.
            Show me your horse and I will tell you who you are.

            Comment


            • #7
              Gallop's post does lead to a good question. Does the lease say they are responsible for all medical care during the lease or only medical care for things they cause?
              To me if it says all medical care than a random lump that appears and is not going away is something that should be looked at on their dime.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                "Being a care lease, lessee is responsible for expenses surrounding said horse during the course of the lease, to include but not limited to; all routine medical and chiropractic expenses (including basic illness, and injury related to lessee's riding) farrier expenses, board as agreed by both parties, feed, all upkeep expenses, ad routine vet care such as but not limited to vaccinations, dental floats, etc."

                From the lease
                Last edited by Ready To Riot; Sep. 20, 2013, 03:50 PM. Reason: Hit enter too soon!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ready To Riot View Post
                  "Being a care lease, lessee is responsible for expenses surrounding said horse during the course of the lease, to include but not limited to; all routine medical and chiropractic expenses (including basic illness, and injury related to lessee's riding) farrier expenses, board as agreed by both parties, feed, all upkeep expenses, ad routine vet care such as but not limited to vaccinations, dental floats, etc."

                  From the lease
                  I guess it's really up to you if you want to cause such a giant fuss over the $35 farm call the vet is going to charge you to come look at it.

                  You yourself said that you were going to treat it like a wart and give it a few weeks to just disappear.....perhaps that's what they decided to do as well.

                  Even if they HAD called the vet out, and the vet took a quick peek at it and declared it a sarcoid or melanoma that needs to be treated/removed, that would push the issue out of "routine care" and land the treatment bill right in your lap.

                  So seriously, all you're looking at them having to pay is the farm call. Or maybe a lab fee, if you wanted to take it to the extreme and have it biopsied or something like that.

                  Personally, I'd let it go.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    So, what is the nature of the bump? What did the vet say it was? It is just literally a bump caused by the horse smacking it's head on something as horses will do? Is it something that does not require treatment but will clear up on it's own in time? Perhaps it did not even require a vet to look at it. 'Bumps' in my barn do not usually result in a vet call unless it seems to be an injury to be concerned about but certainly not for something that is most likely to be a cosmetic issue.

                    You own the horse and the bump showed up very close to the time of returning the horse. I think you are splitting hairs and wasting your time and theirs. Time to move on and thank you lucky stars that your lease went relatively well.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      All this for a bump?!?

                      Have you even seen it yet?
                      ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

                      Originally posted by LauraKY
                      I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
                      HORSING mobile training app

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by GoForAGallop View Post
                        I guess it's really up to you if you want to cause such a giant fuss over the $35 farm call the vet is going to charge you to come look at it.

                        You yourself said that you were going to treat it like a wart and give it a few weeks to just disappear.....perhaps that's what they decided to do as well.

                        Even if they HAD called the vet out, and the vet took a quick peek at it and declared it a sarcoid or melanoma that needs to be treated/removed, that would push the issue out of "routine care" and land the treatment bill right in your lap.

                        So seriously, all you're looking at them having to pay is the farm call. Or maybe a lab fee, if you wanted to take it to the extreme and have it biopsied or something like that.

                        Personally, I'd let it go.
                        That.^

                        Those clauses in leases are not to nitpick at all and everything, but for serious situations, where the horse is injured and big vet bills incurred, not for every little bump that happens.

                        I expect when you ask your attorney they will tell you just that, but that they will gladly will take your money to go to court to have a judge tell you.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by alibi_18 View Post
                          All this for a bump?!?

                          Have you even seen it yet?
                          This.
                          COTH's official mini-donk enabler

                          "I am all for reaching out, but in some situations it needs to be done with a rolled up news paper." Alagirl

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            100% need to let it go.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Ready To Riot View Post
                              "Being a care lease, lessee is responsible for expenses surrounding said horse during the course of the lease, to include but not limited to; all routine medical and chiropractic expenses (including basic illness, and injury related to lessee's riding) farrier expenses, board as agreed by both parties, feed, all upkeep expenses, ad routine vet care such as but not limited to vaccinations, dental floats, etc."

                              From the lease
                              Is this an open wound that would require treatment? A wart to me is a growth and the people in no way could have caused that. If it was open or festering or something that would require treatment to keep it from getting worse and they neglected to do that , then I would think you have a claim.

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                It's a wart looking growth, but it's blood red.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Ready To Riot View Post
                                  It's a wart looking growth, but it's blood red.
                                  My guess is that you need a good diagnosis before deciding what you should do.

                                  Get a vet or two to tell you what that may be and how to proceed with it.

                                  If you can prove something happened and that may be why they returned the horse and it happened on their watch and it is something serious, then talk to an attorney, contract on hand and with that information.

                                  If it is just something that will go away in a few days, or something that just happened and didn't need attention, then just take care of it and move on.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    How long has it been since the horse was returned?

                                    You say "30 day notice was given" - by whom? Them or you?

                                    Have you had it looked at yet?

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      A wart or growth? No, unless the lease was for such along time that the growth appeared under lease and grew to be an ulcerated weeping cant-miss-it mess.
                                      If your vet said it was absolutely the result of trauma, I'd rethink it.

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater


                                        That is a link to the picture.. I hope it works. It isnt the best but you can see it above her eye. The horse returned to me Sept. 7 I was gone up sept. 15th and we had agreed to give it a month to see if it went down or went away and then we would call the vet at their expense since it did happen on their watch. They are now going back on that. I am probably going to have the vet come out anyway as the hair around it is gone. I've never seen anything like that and her baby warts didnt look like that.

                                        Of the top link doesnt work, try this one:

                                        https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...1&l=9fe682a355
                                        Last edited by Ready To Riot; Sep. 22, 2013, 09:09 PM. Reason: to add a second link

                                        Comment

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