Losing your marriage over not wanting children, success stories please

[carolprudm]

I've deleted this thought a few times because I really don't like it, but could it be that you have filled his needs (support through school) and now he has new needs and is moving on?
Hugs.

[17handtb]

I'm so sorry, lost. Reading this, it's clear who is at fault here - and it's NOT you. Of course some people do change their minds about wanting children after they've made the initial decision, but to change his mind with such lightning speed, and allow you absolutely no time to react...and cut you no slack whatsoever...is inexcusable on your husband's part.

You need to do what feels right to you in your heart, and children are way too important to be born just because other people - even if that other person is your husband - think it's what you should do. Be sad, give yourself time to grieve if nothing can be done to save your marriage, but don't sell yourself short. You have a lot of great qualities to offer and there ARE men out there who will want and respect that - without children as the dealmaker.

[lost]

That thought has crossed my mind and come out of my mouth..don't worry about being blunt carolprudm. It may be true..I just don't know what is going on. I need outside input b/c I don't typically open up and it has led me to where I am now.

It all just reeks of me being used and him viewing the relationship as disposable.

[Irish Ei's]

OK...Sounds to me like you're a long way away from losing your marriage or having children. Maybe time to see this counsellor alone, cuz you're getting ganged up on. These "other" issues must be addressed, cleared, etc. long before you take that irreversible step, and he must understand that babies are not handy little cures, especially if anyone is not openly willing....resentment kills....

[LUVMYQH]

(((HUGS)))

Okay - I REALLY hope it doesn't come to divorce...but if it does, then you need to be prepared. Just make sure that you watch out for your own interests. My good friend just went through a nasty divorce - her husband went to the top 10 attorneys in town for a "consultation". By meeting with these attorneys for 15 minutes each, she could not hire any of them because of attorney/client priveleges. So, he basically locked up all of the best attorneys in town. See what I mean?

Get a counselor that will be more objective - try to understand both of your positions. You should both be satisfied with the counselor.

If these differences continue and it doesn't look like you will be able to reconcile...you must immediately start to take care of yourself - financially, legally, emotionally, etc. Don't let him take everything after you have supported him for so long.

Best of luck my COTH friend. I'm very sorry that you're going through this and I'm sure it must be very difficult for you. I hope things work out, but either way - you will be okay. You're a horse woman - we're strong.

[Critters Everywhere]

Oh, the echoes & memories! The more you say, the more your situation sounds like mine used to.

I, too, always made more than my husband. We followed my career from Day 1. My husband, too, had more-than-your-usual-baggage from childhood. I, too, was blindsided when my husband out of the blue said he was miserable, hated pretty much everything about our priorities, regretted marrying me, & had thought many, many times about just driving off & never coming home.

In our case, it turned out to be combination of unspoken (& unmet) expectations, poor communication all-around on everything, making assumptions about what the other felt/saw/knew, trying to hard for the wrong reasons, AND...one of the biggies...true chemical depression in my husband. We were both so good at hiding our emotional distress, things got very, very bad before either of us knew that the other was unhappy. There were plenty of things that I did wrong as well.

I have to say though, aside from the seperation (which neither one of us initially wanted, then I did something which he couldn't handle & he asked me to move out...best thing we ever did, other than getting back together!), the single, number one reason our marriage is now a happy, content one rather than the misery it used to be was him FINALLY agreeing to try Lexapro. The day we were sitting in a doctor's office and there was a poster on the board about depression & we were reading it (for lack of anything better to do while we waited) & he said he answered 'yes' to every single one of those questions...well, let's just say it was eye-opening!


Good luck to you. (Obviously) I don't know where you're from, but if you need a shoulder to cry on (or an anonymous person to vent at), give a holler. There's nothing more important in this time than the support & love of friends.

[onelanerode]

So sorry that you're going through this ... I can't imagine what that would be like! I don't really have any positive experiences to share, because I haven't gotten that far down the road yet. I'm almost engaged to a wonderful man and we've both said we don't want kids (though if an Oops happened that'd be OK), but I worry what may happen if one of us changes his/her mind. My mother didn't want children when she married at 23, and neither did my father. At 27, she changed her mind. Right now, all it takes is a dinner out or a trip to WalMart to remind me how much I don't want kids, but I worry if that'll change, and how my SO and I will handle that.

Babies aren't a fill to a need ... they should be an added blessing to a healthy, open, loving, understanding and fulfilling relationship between two people. It's not fair to the child to bring him/her into a world where one person is a parent but reluctantly so ... that only breeds resentment.

I do agree that you need a counselor who will listen to both of you and help both of you ... siding with one person makes any counseling one-sided and ultimately unhelpful for either person.

I'll be thinking about you and hoping everything turns out for the best. Good luck.

[silver]

It sounds like he's extremely depressed and wants to have a child in order to "fix" everything that went wrong with his childhood. Finishing grad school is an horrendously difficult time too as you start thinking about how you are locked into a career now and coming up with wild possibilities and all the stuff you want to do but can't now because you have to get a REAL job. Also your counselor sounds like an idiot.

Personally I'd tell him that you don't think he'd mentally competent to even think about having kids right now and that he needs to get his shit together and not blame his indecision and desire for a completely different life on you. If you think there's anyway you might ever compromise and have kids tell him to sign up for a mentoring program or volunteer at a school to prove to you that he's serious about the kid thing. And that there is no way you are having children with someone who cannot handle their own problems and is not stable in their life. I predict that once he gets a job and starts earning some money and everything settles down he'll stabilise.

In the meantime maybe you guys should try and go on a vacation someplace to celebrate him finsihing school? Something you've both always wanted to do that reminds you of why you choose the DINK lifestyle in the first place

[lost]

Don't worry about me having children just to fill some "perceived need" by my husband. That is the last thing on my mind. I did agree to try to get to the root/explore the background of why I didn't want them....but it doesn't seem worth it when he is absent on a daily basis from the emotional aspect of our marriage - a totally foreign concept in our relationship.

He says he knows that NONE of this is my fault and that he never meant to hurt me....it is all starting to sound so meaningless.

He has a family history of depression, and was evaluated for depression at the request of our counsellor. Psychiatrist said no, it was just a situational short term thing. No meds needed. I disagree.

I also think that the void he is now realizing he has in his life ( at least that is what he calls it), he believes children will fill the emptiness. I am certain this is dead wrong and that he needs to get to the root of his emptiness. But he, and the counsellor are certain that he really does want kids.

[Pocket Pony]

I'm sorry to hear you are going through this. My ex-husband and I got divorced partly because of the kid issue. In our situation, I suppose it was me who did the "leading on". We met in college and I assumed that one day I would want kids. As I grew older and matured, I realized that I did NOT want them. It wasn't a matter of getting to a certain point in my life, it was a matter of having no desire whatsoever to be a mother. He tried to give me the "it will be different when you have them", "you'd be such a great mom", "who will take care of us when we're older", blah blah blah bullcrap.

And he also felt like he came second to the horses. Which he did. Being married to him was like having a child and it wasn't really an equal partnership.

Anyways, I'll stop going on about myself.

You need to be true to what you want or don't want out of your life. If you don't want kids, then DON'T HAVE THEM. You will be a million times more miserable if you give in to something that is not in your heart.

Divorce is not fun and it is hard even in the best of circumstances.

But I must say that it was a major turning point in my life and I have never been happier since leaving my ex-husband. (I re-married almost a year ago and have the most wonderful, amazing, loving, supportive PARTNER who is at this very moment in the kitchen making me dinner ).

You can get through this and you WILL be happy again.

[Critters Everywhere]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lost:
He has a family history of depression, and was evaluated for depression at the request of our counsellor. Psychiatrist said no, it was just a situational short term thing. No meds needed. I disagree. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


This one is really, really easy & cheap to test. My husband also swore up & down that it was the situation (hated his work partner, stressed about money, blah, blah, blah). He agreed to try Lexapro for one month. If he didn't need it, it wouldn't hurt him (and with insurance was only about $15...the doctor even offered 2 weeks of free samples). If it helped, he'd know within that month.

It helped. A lot.

[Critters Everywhere]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lost:
I also think that the void he is now realizing he has in his life ( at least that is what he calls it), he believes children will fill the emptiness. I am certain this is dead wrong and that he needs to get to the root of his emptiness. But he, and the counsellor are certain that he really does want kids. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Would he be willing to sign up for the Big Brother/Big Sister program? It might help fill whatever 'void' is there, as well as helping him experience some of the realities of having children.

[SaddleFitterVA]

Ironically the only couple I knew well enough on this issue it was the WOMAN who changed her mind.

HE did not want children, ever. Doesn't like them. One day, SHE changed her mind...and had 2 kids.

Now that one is a teenager, he does a bit more with them, but a non-participating father who provides all the monetary needs is still lacking.

I would assume there would be similar issues with a reluctant mother and attentive father, and requisite nannies and babysitters.

This couple did not divorce, but had the roles been reversed they probably would have. In that one place, a biological child, women do have an edge in the relationship, assuming fertility is not an issue.

People do change, and either you will figure it out together or move on to a new phase in life with someone different.

I agree w/ the people who say to talk to your own counselor.

Mel

[luveventing]

just my little two cents here-slightly off topic, but I totally can understand where you are coming from, have had this talk a LOT.... I am also in the not really wanting children club. I may at some point agree to ONE, but it would take A LOT of convincing (and pretty much a time frame where I had no horses I could ride and no shows to go to!) and I think by that point I will be too old to get pregnant!

but I am so sick and tired of society (AND family!!!) pressuring women and/or couples to have children because thats what you are supposed to do. you get married, you have kids. if you truely do not want kids, dont have them. some people arent meant to have children and just because you can doesnt mean you should. I still feel that I would be incredibly jealous and selfish if I had a child that took away from my riding. that sure as hell isnt the mind set you want your mother to have!! if more people would really sit down and think about what it means to have a child and what you must give up for that child, I think we would have a lot less problems in this world.

it is very possible that now that you are married he is feeling that need to be the "norm". as much as its 2005, things are still very traditional and I think horsewoman tend to be much more independant and dont always fit into that norm. I have friends YOUNGER than me, early 20s, (that are ALREADY married to the first guy they ever dated -three of my friends!) that still will run home and cook dinner for their hubbys and miss out on riding their horse because they need to clean and do laundry. (no offense to those of you, I am glad you do exist in this world!) but its just not something I would do. luckily my husband has been witness to this for four years, so he doesnt expect much more than for me to come home sweaty, smelly, tired and hungry. but when I have the time I really try to make him know how much I appreciate the days he doesnt complain that I am at the barn two more hours to ride another horse for someone.

So I guess the moral is you arent alone in your feelings and you certainly arent wrong for feeling the way you do. he may be feeling pressure since you are married to have the whole "leave it to beaver" happy little home. you need to honestly look at the situation and see if you can both live happily with what you both need and what you are both willing to give up. I think to be a good parent, you need to be willing to give up your life for your child- not to say you would HAVE to, but I think you have to be willing to do it to say you are ready. (I could be off base here being childless, but thats how I feel...the day I can say that is the day I am ready to have kids.)

ok, sorry for the looooooong post. this topic just hit really close to home.

[Hopeful Hunter]

oy. I'm sorry. Situations like this are never pretty, never easy, and never welcome. *hugs*

FWIW, I was married before. To a wonderful man, who was told by me, my friends and my mother (and we won't go into THAT one.....let's just say she was not exactly supporting her daughter there....) that I was a lot different from what everyone thought he wanted, and was that OK? He swore it was, and I think he genuinely believed it could be.

I was, and am, not very traditional. I had no intention of changing my name, so far I'm over 40 and my biological clock has yet to turn on, and I'm a very liberal, sometimes loud feminist semi-pagan woman. My ex was and is a conservative, traditional Catholic man.

After almost 4 years of marriage, some work changes for both of us caused other stresses to emerge. Seems he had thought that once we were married and I got comfortable and secure in our relationship -- which I did -- I'd "settle" a bit. And take his name, and be more like a "wife" and maybe want kids. Instead, I DID get more comfortable and secure....enough to become more outspoken and confident in those causes that mattered to me. The end result was that we split -- he remains a friend and a great guy, but not the right one for me. It was difficult and confusing to our families, since there didn't seem to be anything WRONG with the marriage. And there wasn't -- we just weren't right, either. Love wasn't the issue, but it also wasn't enough.

I've been married again now for over a dozen years. I didn't WANT to get remarried -- I'd gotten to a place where things were OK and didn't want the aggravation of a relationship. And my husband was in the same place. But...we met, and something really did just "click" as they say.

My husband knew I was not likely to have kids, and as he was ambivalent on it, that was OK. We very much share core values and I believe and hope we both respect each other, and issues that resonate and matter to me matter to him, too. We spend a lot of time doing different things, but overall we support each other in those pursuits.

There are issues, of course. And, as we continue on the downside of our 40s I DO worry one day he'll wake up and say "damn! Kids! Wonder if I should do that?" and well, that will end it. BUT...

From my first marriage I've learned that I have the right to insist that my core values are respected in a relationship. It's my responsibility to communicate those values, and any changes or concerns about them, but those values aren't negotiable. It's also my responsibility to acknowledge and respect my partner's core values. And if something changes and either of us find we can't do so, we need to get counseling - together AND alone (I'm a firm advocate of each partner having "their own" space along with something mutual) - and see if we can grow to understand and respect the changes, and if not, to part with dignity.

I'm sorry to share this, but it may be helpful. All I can say is try to use this situation to really determine what your critical needs are, and who you are. I hope things work out as they need to, and that whatever that is is not too painful, and good things come soon!

[carolprudm]

Oh Dear.
The fact that he doesn't want to be the primary caregiver leads me to believe that he doesn't really want to have children. He wants the "leave it to Beaver" life style. And he is putting the onus on you to make it happen. I'm not a psychologist (I can't even spell it!) but from what you have posted I think he could be trying to create a life he didn't have as a child. If you heart is not in it you can't do that for him....AND SHOULDN'T. It won't work because you won't be able to play the part he is expecting.

[fullmoon fever]

My first marriage (of almost 20 yrs.) ended after I got completely fed up with the lazy bum. He knew from the get-go that children were a NO for me. I had decided when I was 12 that I hated them and would never have any. At 25, I had a tubal ligation. I was fortunate that the lazy bum stuck by his word and never pressed the issue of children with me. At the age of 53, he is now a dad.

Since I've had a hysterectomy, I don't worry about it at all now and I'm married to a wonderful guy who says he is sure he shoots blanks so he's never thought about having kids; figured it wasn't in the cards for him.

Anyway, a friend of mine did have a baby to "save her marriage" (on the advice of a marriage counsellor). The marriage ended 2 mos. after the baby was born and she's been stuck with it for 21+ years.

There really seems to be a helluva lot more going on than your DH just "feeling the need" to have kids. I ditto all the other advice about the counsellor and being prepared for what may come (especially on the legal front).

Sorry I'm not much of a ray of sunshine. Hope you are able to get through this and find your life. *hugs*

[carosello]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by luveventing:


... but I am so sick and tired of society (AND family!!!) pressuring women and/or couples to have children because thats what you are supposed to do. you get married, you have kids. if you truly do not want kids, don't have them. some people aren't meant to have children and just because you can doesn't mean you should. ... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Boy is that the truth! And if you do have one they still don't stop. Incredibly frustrating.

I ditto another counselor. It only makes sense to find that "neutral" person who can help you walk thru this.

No other advice just wanted to tell you, you are not alone nor the first/last to go down this lane. Jingles

[littleum]

Hugs- what an awful upside down cake that must be on the kitchen floor. I do agree you need to get some 2nd opinions on this- I can't believe any good therapist would recommend children for a troubled marriage.

While I guess I could understand him having a breakthrough in therapy that relieved fear/anxiety about contining a bad family legacy in a fatherhood role, the other stuff (mostly not wanting to raise them) would sending my eyebrows straight into my hairline.

You say all this, and a mental picture from a 1950s-esque sitcom just ran through my head: Father comes home from work. Wife has dinner on table and the houes is pristine. The ideal 2.4 children trot up, give Father kisses, dinner is polite and civil and then the kids run off to play quietly while you knit and he reads the paper. My amateur mind wonders if maybe he suddenly wants a family to "overcome" the less-then-ideal circumstances of his own childhood, and Leave It To Beaver is the model he's chosen.

This might sound crazy, but I'd tell Mr Littleum to WRITE OUT or even better, make a VIDEO of his wants & desires. Then I'd give it back to him a day or two later and tell him to read it to me/watch it with me. Sometimes re-reading or watching something after the fact can have a real impact.

Sympathies, and hang in there...

[Smigget]

Gosh, I'm only 17, and I'm already worried about this! *sigh* I'm thinking that if I want to get into horses big time, I'm going to stay single. I'm terrified I'll fall in love with someone from a large family who wants kids and is allergic to horses or something. Or, yeah. *shudder*

Nothing to add, but (((((HUGS)))))