Losing your marriage over not wanting children, success stories please

[fargo]

Hi Lost, read the whole thread and am glad you're talking again. But I wonder even if he's willing to change a shedule, that shouldn't matter so much because you don't want to have children?? I hope he is on his way back but I think this will be a road of many ups and downs and mood swings. I hope he's not just playing your feelings. I think it's important that he agreed to another counseler but it's also way more important that his issues are sorted out and that he's not depressed but a stable person. And then you decide if he's still the one for you I guess. And that doesn't mean that you have to have his babies or that you should decide now because he shows some potention this doesn't mean that you're there by a long shot. But I guess and I hope that you see and feel that for yourself as well. Don't trick yourself, be well and take care of you! Wish you a lot of wisdom and strength.

[Salar]

As others have alluded to....this scene sounds all too familiar to me as well. Unfortunately it took me 4 years to really "see the light" and realize that I needed to distance myself and finalize the enevitable. It has only been a year and a half since we separated, but this brings back (at am alarming rate) what I went through.

As you are now, I wanted to be so very sure that before I closed the door that there would be no guessing or "what if's". I can not believe how very much I just want to take hold of you, sit down and tell you what to expect. Unfortunatly, this is a course that is and can only be driven by yourself. We can offer support and input but please, please, please......trust your heart and your head.

I see so many similarities in that he has changed his mind on everything. This DID NOT happen overnight, I know that you feel blindsided by this, but trust me there are many issues surrounding this behavior.

I wish that I had a dollar for everytime that he said that he was "sorry" and would change. This behaviour WILL NOT change unless he truely believes that there is a problem. I stuck with it for as I said, for 4 years and although I am so happy without the stress in my life, looking back I caused alot of negatives in my life while I "put up with this behavious". Please know that someone who supposedly loves you, (no matter what they may be going through in their personal lives - his childhood background etc.) should NEVER intentionally hurt the ones they love. It took me far too liong to realize this. My ex, after I finally said that it was over, scrambled, cried, professed his love and his willingness to see any counsellor that I chose. It was too late, and I realized that words were no subsitute for actions and as Dr Phil suggests....past behaviour is a good indication of what lies in the future. Be smart.

[poltroon]

My mother impressed upon me that I should not have children unless I was prepared to raise them myself as a single parent.

That no matter how wonderful my mate might be, no matter what he promised, that anything could happen: he could be sick or hurt or killed, we could split, he might not be able to help. In the end as long as I was alive it would be my responsibility and burden and mine alone.

Don't have kids unless you really want them. For yourself. They're even harder to sell than horses.

[Plumcreek]

Who needs Dr. Laura? - great advice right here!

One BB member (Tom King?) once said:

Work, Children, Horses - pick two.

How true.

[lost]

Hi all. The advice offered is definitely being heeded. Although I feel positively about the steps taken last nite, I am not naive (any more and am aware of myself, him, patterns, etc. I am hopeful that we will be able to resolve our problems together. It may not be (and probably will not be) to stay together based on what he voiced that he hopes for last nite. I can accept that. But, at least it can start amicably. And I now don't feel as completely lost as I did last week. Weird, huh? Strange power relationships hold over our emotions.

I have gotten my ducks in a row regarding the various aspects mentioned here by everyone who has posted - I hope - (ie financial, atty, work, place for myself and horses, potential new jobs, etc.) My current job is now aware of the situation. I am trying to make an appt with new counsellor (both a solo counsellor for me) and am making him responsible, with me, for finding the new joint counsellor.

That is really all I can do. I want to see where this brings us. When it is time to discuss or think about children, I want to do it, not just because of what he has done in the past week, but despite it. Perhaps I will decide I want to be a mom...and he has raised my awareness. Perhaps that decision will
be to not have a child with him. I will never have a child I don't want to parent 100%. I am adamant about making the right choices for me. We will see.

Again many thanks to everyone for the continued support.

[Salar]

Lost,
Glad that you forging ahead and it certainly sounds like you have all of your ducks in a row. It is never easy, and whatever the outcome is for you, I guarantee that you will come out of this a much stronger person. Looking back, that is one of the most positive outcomes from my situation.
Take care!!!!

[mcmIV]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Pacificsolo, I appreciate your kind words and I greatly respect your opinion; but please understand, I very strongly disagree with your fundamental premise… so much so that I think it is destructive of any useful human dynamic I would ever endorse or advocate.

Vows are words, often spoken with sincerity in the moment. I can vow to kill someone; I can vow to stay married forever to one person; I can vow to make healthy choices in life.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just wanted to say... this is the point entirely... do not make a vow that you are not willign to keep! If you do not *really* mean to kill someone, why would you promise to do it?!

Kudos to DJ and PacificSolo and the other handful of people who are outspoken about marriage vows.

No one (no one!) has said that the OP or anyone else should stay in a marriage that the other partner has quit and ended.

As long as you both have even the tiniest amount of willingness to work it out... it is your duty to do so! If you don't want to find yourself in that difficult position, than don't get married - it's no different than not having children! So many have said "I don't want kids because they are a lifetime committment above and beyond my own life." This is true! And a marriage vow is not that much different - it is a lifetime committment, sometimes a compromise.

It's not about religion. It's about promises and trust. If you *know* your partner will be there through thick and thin, when you get a little "crazy" or a little fat or a little unreasonable.... it sure makes for a much more committed, loving, close marriage.

The OP's husband could ahve very well realized he wants kids. Or maybe he truly thinks he does because he feels it might mend the hurt inside himself that he is uncovering as he goes through his feelings. He could very well realize in a day or a month or a year "WHAT AM I THINKING???" and say to her "thank you SO MUCH for being supportive and strong for me..."

People get crazy. Every one of us has been unreasonable about a topic, an issue, a situation... maybe for a long period of time. That does not mean we are "bastards" or "scum sucking liars".

My only point is - I'm an advocate for sticking it out until *he* insists it's over. Understanding he may be unreasonable right now, but this sounds like an awfully tough time for him and you and the relationship.

This is a link that I've personally found very meaningful. Lessons from lasting marriages: http://mentalhelp.net/psyhelp/chap10/chap10l.htm#c
martha

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

Lost - so glad our support has helped.

Listen to your gut. You will need to be at peace with whatever you decide, and only you can know what that is and when it will happen.

[Anne FS]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cartier:

Vows are words, often spoken with sincerity in the moment.


----

Essentially if we break a “vow” our word can never be trusted. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


YES.

By it's very definition, a vow is "an earnest promise or pledge THAT BINDS ONE...."

They are not by ANY means something to be spoken 'in the moment' and then chucked away. Aarrgghh. The word 'vow' has a very specific meaning, and if you don't mean it, don't take a vow. I'm not talking about marriage exclusively - yes, in lost's case things changed, and she's trying to work it out, but Cartier, if you VOW to me that you will honor a business deal and then you break that vow and do what you promised (vowed) you would not, yes, that means your word can never be trusted.

A vow by definition is a solemn promise and NOT something you 'for the moment.'

Sheesh.

[Sandy M]

As a single, never married, don't EVER want kids person... I really can't comment from any position of experience, so I won't.

However, and forgive me if someone has addressed this, since I haven't read all 12 pages, - but someone suggested getting lost's husband involved with Boy Scouts/Big Brothers and someone else said, something like, oh, don't do that, he might be gay!

PLEASE&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; "gay" does NOT mean "pedophile" and I think it is highly insulting to suggest that.

[lep]

I haven't read all this thread, but the title jumped out at me. I've been with my boyfriend for over 5 years, and he's "pretty sure" he wants kids, and I KNOW that I do not. Sometimes I think I should jump ship and find someone else who definitely doesn't want kids, or just be single, but I do love him. When we fight the topic rears its ugly head, and even when we're getting along, I feel that the issue is lurking.

Anyway, I don't have much advice, but I do know a few happily childfree married couples. There is a bulletin board for the childfree that I lurk, and occasionally post on....there are quite a few on there that had marriages break up over the kid issue, but I think every one of them will say they're better off now. If you want the website/bulletin board, PT me.

[myrna]

I haven't read all of the replies.I do know that i never really thought about having children,but 3 kids later and a nasty divorce i would not have been without them.they are wonderful (at times) they are also on their own and self supporting now.my husband and i have 6 children between us.i love them all.now it's time for me and my mare.dressage here we come!!!!!!!

[Hazelnut]

From reading your original post it sounds like your husband wants out of the marriage and is too chicken to say that up front. You can only compromise if both of you are willing. Sounds like he's placing the stakes at a level he knows you can't accept. Be honest, handle yourself with class, and use your support system to get through this.

Take care of yourself!

[Declaring]

I hope things work out either way, and we won't judge whatever decision is made so please keep us updated. Good luck to you.

[Cartier]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">YES.

By it's very definition, a vow is "an earnest promise or pledge THAT BINDS ONE...."

They are not by ANY means something to be spoken 'in the moment' and then chucked away. Aarrgghh. The word 'vow' has a very specific meaning, and if you don't mean it, don't take a vow. I'm not talking about marriage exclusively - yes, in lost's case things changed, and she's trying to work it out, but Cartier, if you VOW to me that you will honor a business deal and then you break that vow and do what you promised (vowed) you would not, yes, that means your word can never be trusted.

A vow by definition is a solemn promise and NOT something you 'for the moment.' </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think I understand what you are saying, and I agree to a point. Setting the dictionary and societal conventions aside, I do not agree that a vow can never be retracted. For example, I would certainly like that any enemy of our country who has taken a religious vow to destroy the USA comes to see that such a vow (how ever solemn), should be rescinded. And, like many personal aspects of our lives, a marital vow is essentially grounded in realities that are private. It is not for outsiders to judge. Only the person in the marriage can know if the vow should be kept or broken. I think that our emotional and physical health and well-being trump sticking to a vow. And breaking a vow does not mean that the person who breaks a vow can not ever again be trusted. We go through this life once… there is no value in living as a martyr.

[fargo]

Bump!!Can we have an update on how you're doing? Any progress or any new developments? Hope you're doing fine!

[Feenikks]

I read just some of the thread.

Lost: If you are not happy, then leave... just leave. Love comes and yes, if forced, it does go.. but that does not mean there is no more love out there waiting.

I don't think people should scarifice and be unhappy with someone or base their decisions on someone elses thoughts. We only have one Life make of it what you can, but most of all ... be happy.

Here is a little story.

A great friend of mine met a guy, married him in a year, HE wanted a baby, not her but now they have a 2 month old child. The "dad" is always out playing poker with his friends, or going to concerts.. while Mom is at home 24/7 caring for the baby. Just a mess and I feel sorry for my friend but she is so under the "influence" of the husband that whatever he wants he gets..

[Jaegermonster]

Anybody heard from Lost? Whatssup girl?

[Maggie G]

I never wanted children, I was severly abused growing up and could not imagine having a child go though what I went through, 3 children later I could not imagine my life without them, my husband is not into horses and that can and does make things harder but we are making it, we also work together doing horses for a living, just to complicate things even more. Yes I have had to give certain things up but anything that is worth anything has sacrifices.
I love my horses very much, my husband does not understand the healing aspect that they have to offer, even thow I dont get to ride very often,just being around them brings me great peace and senerity. I guess you could say that you just need to find a balance, things can and do work if you both really want them to.

[lost]

Hi guys,

Well, We went to see a new counsellor at the beginning of last week. She suggested a trial separation of 3-4 months. She also pegged him and stated some very blunt opinions of what he has been doing, which helped me realize I am not going insane. She thinks he has checked out due to being overwhelmed with a lot of stresses right now and that the child issue is a smoke screen.

Even though he didn't want to move out, I held my ground (I didn't ask for this) and so he moves out this saturday. Immediately following the session, he was checked out completely for about 4 days. However, I realized that once he moves out and we have no more contact in this "trial divorce" that there can be no regrets so I spent some time instigating conversation. We have been doing a lot of talking since then. He is adamant about wanting kids, and now, moving back to the state that he is from (across the country), the one he supposedly "never wanted to live in again" when we first got together.

I have insisted that our finances be divided completely evenly. I will not support him any more.

Counsellor says she is cautiously optimistic that he may just snap out of it one day....and realize he is ruining his life. But that I also will, at some point, get sick of putting up with this. I don't know why I have for so long already..I guess because it is a marriage and I love the person I thought he was.

You guys on COTH and all my horsey friends are the only reasons I feel I have gotten through this in one piece thus far. (My first day off in the few months since I started my new job was hard to come by..finally got it last week. Broke down not once, but TWICE on my way to a lesson..never made it to the lesson. Don't feel like I needed that kick in the head right now!) I have seen the counsellor once alone and will again tomorrow. Am going to see her at least once a week for a while. He has also scheduled time with her. She said I have some unresolved issues but that, in general, I am pretty balanced...also nice to hear.

Anyway, I thank you all so much for every bit of input. Would love to have more. It helps me look through the tears.