• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 2/8/18)
See more
See less

So here's what happens when you try to cheat.....

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #21
    http://www.banamine.com/disclosure/

    "In horses and cattle, rare instances of anaphylactic-like reactions, some of which have been fatal, have been reported, primarily following intravenous use."

    Comment


    • #22
      I thought it was some kind of relaxant too. Twice Hershey's had it at the vet's and both times he peed in the trailer on the way home. He HATES to pee in the trailer.

      The vet said today that penicillin will cause a horse to go nuts, I don't know if he meant seizures or not. He was cautioning me not to get it in the vein.
      Sarina

      Comment


      • #23
        This doesn't really make sense to me...I agree with C. Boylen. I have given countless IV banamine injections (primarily for colic) and have never heard of seizures occurring...it would surprise me that the vet would say "banamine must be what did this". This is even more confusing considering I've never heard of banamine being given as a tranquilizer - it is an NSAID and doesn't have a tranquilizing effect. Robaxin, yes in large doses, can calm horses - I would imagine the effect is much like a human muscle relaxer such as flexeril. I have heard of Robaxin being used as a tranquilizer, likely because it is legal at lower dosages and can be more easily explained away than the presence of Ace, which is simply a tranquilizer.

        If one were to tranquilize at a show where they knew there would be no drug testing, why would they use banamine (ineffective) or robaxin (effective only in large doses and very expensive) when they could use ace to get much more effective and cheaper results? Something ain't right here.
        Ristra Ranch Equestrian Jewelry

        Comment


        • #24
          Originally posted by BumbleBee:
          Aptor Hours - Banamine is a muscle relaxer.
          No Banamine is not a muscle relaxer. I know muscle relaxers cause considerable drowsiness and example would be Soma, Robaxin and I thik they are allowed in certain limits.

          OOps I see a bunch have also stated that Banamine is not a muscle relaxant.

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by Vandy:
            This is even more confusing considering I've never heard of banamine being given as a tranquilizer - it is an NSAID and doesn't have a tranquilizing effect.
            Actually that's not quite true...from personal experience, I've found that Banamine DOES have a mild sedative effect. Maybe the horse relaxes due to pain relief? I'm not sure, but years ago I used to give it to my mare (at my vet's suggestion) to calm her gut AND her brain...I had her at a barn where she didn't get enough turnout, and she would pace/fret in her stall and wind up with mild gassy/crampy colics as a result. The Banamine was a godsend until I moved to a barn with full-day turnout.

            Like I said, it could just be pain relief that calms the horse, but IME Banamine does have this effect.

            Comment


            • #26
              SBT, interesting, although I personally believe (as you said) that the tranquilizing effect you saw was due to the pain relief. I would suspect that your mare became nervous when confined to a stall and this caused mild colicky symptoms *before* the pacing and fretting began. We've all had horses that get agitated when colicky - kicking, weaving, pawing, etc - and they "calm down" when the banamine makes them feel better. IMO the relaxation is simply a result of feeling better again. If I want to sedate a healthy horse (not at a show of course ), banamine is not something that I would use...but then again I am not a vet. Perhaps Ghazzu will make another appearance on this thread and offer her take on it?
              Ristra Ranch Equestrian Jewelry

              Comment


              • #27
                Uh - I thought Banamine was an anti-spasmodic, too. So the muscles of the animal would become a bit more lax.

                I've only ever given 10cc's at a time for a colicing horse, so I have no idea how much it would take to cause seizures; if properly administered. Is this one of the drugs that if it hits an artery,can kill a horse? Like penicillin? I saw a horse die from a penicillin injection gone bad. Horrible.
                Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                -Rudyard Kipling

                Comment


                • #28
                  Please tell us that this highly unethical, unscrupulous trainer is now permanently banned from showing, teaching or training with this club.
                  LESS HARD WORK, MORE FINE DINING!™
                  complicate, obfuscate, prevaricate.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Anaphylactic shock, which is what this horse probably had, can happen with ANY shot that is given to your horse!!!

                    It occurs more often with Ambi-Pen shots, but EVERY shot (including vaccinations) has the potential for anaphylactic shock.

                    This is why whom ever is giving the shot should have a shot of Epi with them.

                    Unfortunately, I did a lot of research on this subject. Once a horse has had an anaphylactic reaction to a drug, antibodies that work against that drug are built up. The next time that the drug is administered, the potential for the horse dying is greatly increased, especially if the needle is not aspirated or a vein is punctured.

                    It is not a pretty sight to watch a horse take an agonizing 5 minutes to die. It is a horrible sight. Hopefully, the trainer will have the sense to stop drugging his horses. AUBURN
                    When in Doubt, let your horse do the Thinking!

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by mrsbwayne:
                      I thought it was some kind of relaxant too. Twice Hershey's had it at the vet's and both times he peed in the trailer on the way home. He HATES to pee in the trailer.

                      The vet said today that penicillin will cause a horse to go nuts, I don't know if he meant seizures or not. He was cautioning me not to get it in the vein.
                      Sarina
                      Penicillin should NEVER be given in the vein.

                      Banamin is a non-steroidal anti inflammatory, as is Bute. Bute is used more commonly for musculo-skeletal pain and Banamine is used more commonly for gastric or other internal pain. Both drugs are legal in the show ring provided they are not used in combination with each other. You can use Banamine or bute but not both.

                      Now Banamine, if accidentally injected into the artery will cause a horse to "wig out." I was holding a colicy horse for a trainer when she gave Rompum IV and then followed it with Banamine IV, she left the needle in the neck and just switched syringes. She was having trouble pushing the Banamine following the Rompum and the plunger was feeling very stiff. While trying to push the Banamine, the horse started getting drowsy from the Rompum and his head sagged down and then he jerked it up and the needle pricked the artery and apparently a bit of Banamine got into the artery. The horse started running backwards in a circle and fell over very briefly. He got up pretty quickly and was fine after that.
                      Every man has a right to his opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts.
                      Bernard M. Baruch

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by TWOLEFTFEET:
                        Please tell us that this highly unethical, unscrupulous trainer is now permanently banned from showing, teaching or training with this club.
                        Probably not. That's the problem with showing non-rated. Nothing you can do.

                        For all its issues, USEF is still the best we've got.
                        "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          I haven't read all the posts BUT

                          Banamine relieves pain, not calming

                          Any injection given IV runs the risk of missing the first vein and hitting the Jugular..and the drug (ANY) will go straight to the brain and cause seizures, unconsiousness and even death.

                          How do I know? Had a colicy pony, vet said go ahead give him the banamine IV and I'll be there in an hour. Holy CRAP, I thought I killed him, he dropped like a stone, thrashed, smashed. Vet screaming on phone get him up and get cold water on him asap..that was 0ver 20 years ago and now I WILL NOT NOT NOT give an IV shot..just IM.

                          Kim
                          Your village is calling. Apparently their idiot is missing!

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Banamine can be given IV or IM. I certainly have plunged in quite fast IM when I am panicking that my horse is colicing. The calming effect seems to come from the relief of pain. Why would a trainer cheat with Banamine at $90 a bottle with mild, if any, relaxing effects especially with Ace being $20 a bottle?

                            The story is really not adding up. Isn't Banamine in some doses is legal? So technically the trainer was only cheating because it was not in the legal time frame? I am also surprised the vet would say anything in this situation that anyone else could hear.

                            The show in question is really well run and well attended.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Who cares WHAT was in the syringe? The trainer was doping the horse before a show. PERIOD.
                              model citizen, zero discipline

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                That may or may not be true. Methacarbonal (Ribaxin) can be given IV before a show. Also, dex can be given. Or the horse could have been colicky.

                                I am not saying that is what happened. But not all syringes have illegal substances. Granted most have to be give quite a few hours before actually showing.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  You're very trusting, Won For Me. But you're totally right, it could have been anything. Unfortunately, my money's on the trainer doping the horse before the class.

                                  I actually had a instructor tell me she routinely aced her mare before showing at recognized dressage shows. Nice, huh?
                                  model citizen, zero discipline

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    "Penicillin should NEVER be given in the vein."

                                    NOT true.

                                    "Any injection given IV runs the risk of missing the first vein and hitting the Jugular"

                                    Also NOT true. You WANT to hit the jugular vein and not the carotid artery medial to it.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      The vet said today that penicillin will cause a horse to go nuts, I don't know if he meant seizures or not. He was cautioning me not to get it in the vein.
                                      Sarina
                                      The banamine thing doesn't make a whole lot of sene to me (ace sems more likely), but THIS (Penicillin Procaine G reactions) I have personal experience with (wish I didn't).

                                      Penecillin is given to horse in a mixture which contains procaine, which acts as a "time release". Otherwise you would have to give 2ccs every 2+ hours instead of 20ccs every 12 hours.

                                      Procaine, in addition to its "time release" effect is an anaesthetic, in the same general family as novocaine, and lidocaine (and cocaine). If it goes into the muscle, all is fine. But if the procaine gets into a blood vessel which leads to the brain, the horse effectively has a "drug overdose", which causes a "seizure", and can cause death.

                                      Even if you are REALLY careful about pulling back on the syringe to make sure there is no blood, you can still have a reaction. When that happens, it appears that the needle went THROUGH a blood vessel. Then, when you remove the needle, some of the penicillin and procaine seeps into the blood vessel. Luckily it is usually only a small amount, so not as major a reaction.
                                      Janet

                                      chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Also NOT true. You WANT to hit the jugular vein and not the carotid artery medial to it.
                                        Well duh me...I KNEW that, just could not remember which was which (as in there are 2 veins almost on top of each other)..hence I will not IV anything..that's what I pay a vet for...I will IM a shot no problems. Until you had the son of a gun drop like he was pole-axed and eyes rolled back in head...nightmares.

                                        As for the trainer, what an idiot! Does the committee not somewhere in their rules have " THE COMMITTEE RESERVES THE RIGHT TO REFUSE, OR RETURN ENTRIES??" or "THE COMMITTEE RESERVES THE RIGHT TO REMOVE FROM THE GROUNDS (blank)?? This trainer WILL dope again at a rated show..trust me, he's just banking on the fact the law of averages says he wins the lottery draw of getting missed. If however the rated folks were aware of the misuse of drugs, he may just not have any horse/clients to dope.

                                        Kim
                                        Your village is calling. Apparently their idiot is missing!

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          That poor horse! Did he turn out OK?

                                          I'm glad the vet reamed the "trainer" a new one. I hope "trainer"'s client base gets significantly smaller after this episode. Jeesh.

                                          Thank goodness for vets. The good ones ought to be sainted.
                                          "I'm not always sarcastic. Sometimes I'm asleep." - Harry Dresden

                                          Amy's Stuff - Rustic chic and country linens and decor
                                          Support my mom! She's gotta finance her retirement horse somehow.

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X