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Horse with Rabies Bites Owner

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  • #21
    The article noted Texas as having the most cases. Size of the state aside, there are regular reportings of rabies around here. It wasn't too long ago a high school kid died from it after being bitten by a bat, and I know of a pet store that was temporarily closed because they had a kitten for sale (handled by lots of shoppers!) that tested positive.

    Our neighbors have shot a few raccoons over the past few years they suspected of being rabid. Last week, I found a dead raccoon in my pasture with no obvious cause of death. It was a younger animal, no outward trauma or apparent injury. Our assumption while carefully removing and disposing of the carcass was rabies. Not something I'd mess around with where vaccines are concerned.
    "I did know once, only I've sort of forgotten." - Winnie the Pooh

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    • #22
      At the risk of being piled on, I'm just going to say, I have asked every vet I've used here in SW Washington about the rabies vaccine every single time I've done my annual shots for the last, oh, 20+ years. Not one of them has recommended it. I'm talking every vet from the local yokel backyard cow/goat/horse vet to the $$$ equine specialist and including the vet that never says no to anything that might give him a few pennies of profit.

      I was also really surprised that an acquaintance was bit by a raccoon on the coast here (raccoon and dog were tussling, owner intervened and was bit in leg) and was not required to undergo rabies shots, which I thought would be a given.

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      • #23
        Same rationalizations as the other thread. Don't know what professional organizations some people's vets belong to (maybe you should ask?) but they don't appear to follow any type of established guidelines for vaccinations. Here are the core recommendations for equines from the AVMA/AAEP:

        The AVMA defines core vaccinations as those “that protect from diseases that are endemic to a region, those with potential public health significance, required by law, virulent/highly infectious, and/or those posing a risk of severe disease. Core vaccines have clearly demonstrated efficacy and safety, and thus exhibit a high enough level of patient benefit and low enough level of risk to justify their use in the majority of patients.” The following equine vaccines meet these criteria and are identified as ‘core’ in these guidelines:
        • Tetanus
        • Eastern/Western Equine Encephalomyelitis
        • West Nile Virus
        • Rabies


        http://www.aaep.org/core_vaccinations.htm

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        • #24
          I agree with you horsepoor. I believe that physical location and the probability of occurrence should drive the decision what to vaccinate for.
          Horse vaccines are still mercury based which concerns me. It took quite awhile to get the mercury out of most if not all human vaccines.
          However, if I lived in an area where there was more opportunity for my horses to be infected, I would vaccinate more frequently. My horses were vaccinated for rabies as a precaution, but not annually. In my 30 plus years with horses, I have never heard of a rabies case in horses ...in my area. West Nile ..EEE yes...rabies no.

          Edited to add: My vets don't make vaccination decisions ...I do.

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          • #25
            Originally posted by rcloisonne View Post
            Same rationalizations as the other thread. Don't know what professional organizations some people's vets belong to (maybe you should ask?) but they don't appear to follow any type of established guidelines for vaccinations. Here are the core recommendations for equines from the AVMA/AAEP:



            http://www.aaep.org/core_vaccinations.htm
            Yes, it must be that *all* vets on the west coast are yokels who don't belong to any professional organizations

            I'm with horsepoor on this. Because of COTH, I too have asked about rabies many years running. My vet is in the camp of "when in doubt, vaccinate," and still has shrugged it off every year. The minute I told her we were thinking about moving to the east coast she told me that I had to do it and included it in their next round of vaccinations without asking (IIRC, she simply told me after the shots that she had to come back for a second shot shortly after).

            I don't know enough about the reasoning to give a coherent explanation, but there's obviously a reason that vets don't want to give the rabies vaccine here on the west coast. So perhaps instead of saying "y'all are a bunch of jackasses who like to play with fire," you could look into *why* the west coast doesn't vaccinate as a matter of rule. We do, on the other hand, vaccinate dogs and cats regularly and by law. I have never heard of a horse getting rabies, but I will admit that I'm not exactly "in the know" in all things equine around the state and am in no way an authority on the subject.

            On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that the answer *isn't* that we're all a bunch of naïve idiots like all of the incredulous east-coast-based posts seem to imply.
            __________________________________
            Flying F Sport Horses
            Horses in the NW

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            • #26
              Google rabies on youtube. You will see some horrific deaths that will MAKE you call the vet out today and vaccinate.

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              • Original Poster

                #27
                Originally posted by Ticker View Post
                I agree with you horsepoor. I believe that physical location and the probability of occurrence should drive the decision what to vaccinate for.
                Horse vaccines are still mercury based which concerns me. It took quite awhile to get the mercury out of most if not all human vaccines.
                However, if I lived in an area where there was more opportunity for my horses to be infected, I would vaccinate more frequently. My horses were vaccinated for rabies as a precaution, but not annually. In my 30 plus years with horses, I have never heard of a rabies case in horses ...in my area. West Nile ..EEE yes...rabies no.

                Edited to add: My vets don't make vaccination decisions ...I do.
                I would like to point out that Carroll County has not had a documented rabies case since 1950, in ANY animal. I bet that poor owner wishes they had paid the $12.00 for the vaccine now.

                If you buy a horse as a yearling and it dies at 25 you will have paid around $288.00 for the vaccine (around here it is $12.00). Burial for a horse is around $200.00 unless you have your own tractor, plus the cost of euthanasia ($175.00) and whatever the cost of the medical treatment for owner. I think the vaccine is the cheaper insurance policy!!!
                Last edited by spotnnotfarm; Sep. 4, 2013, 02:00 PM.

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                • #28
                  Did I dream or did I read that the post bite preventative treatment was NOT as painful as it used to be?
                  In Ontario, we vaccinate against rabies. It's a given, the vets don't ask, they just do it (different spots for different vax). My husband hikes ever day in a nature conservation area and all winter, has been astounded by the number of racoons, in broad daylight, who were walking around... def. very strange... When calls were made to the responsible authority, they just shrugged and said "nature will deal with it"... well very strange too that the carcasses were not taken by coyotes or crows/ravens... but left there...

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                  • #29
                    We all wish there was a 'do over' button at some time or another. I am not against vaccinating for rabies. I stated that mine were vaccinated as a precaution... But not every year.
                    Has there ever been a documented case of rabies in a horse that has been vaccinated twice?

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by spotnnotfarm View Post
                      If you but a horse as a yearling and it dies at 25 you will have paid around $288.00 for the vaccine (around here it is $12.00). Burial for a horse is around $200.00 unless you have your own tractor, plus the cost of euthanasia ($175.00) and whatever the cost of the medical treatment for owner. I thinkt he vaccine the cheaper insurance policy!!!
                      And if, heaven forbid, the rabid horse should attack someone, the cost of the lawsuits you'll be subjected to will be astronomical.
                      Against My Better Judgement: A blog about my new FLF OTTB
                      Do not buy a Volkswagen. I did and I regret it.
                      VW sucks.

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                      • #31
                        Originally posted by amastrike View Post
                        And if, heaven forbid, the rabid horse should attack someone, the cost of the lawsuits you'll be subjected to will be astronomical.
                        In NC the law does not require rabies vac for horses, although it does for dogs and cats.

                        A local vet told me a story recently of a vet near him who had a mystery horse problem. My vet has a reputation as being very good with horses, so the other vet sent the horse to him.

                        Shortly after getting the horse, the horse became violent to the point that he was about to wreck the stall, so they put him in an area he could not wreck. After a short while, he became so violent that putting him down was the only option.

                        The sent his head to Raleigh and the report came back positive for rabies.

                        As a result of the original vet's errors, 18 people had to be treated with the rabies shots.

                        As for my own experience, we shot a skunk who was biting at our horses pasterns, in the dead of winter at 1:30 in the afternoon.

                        Fortuneately the horses had been vacinated, shots were up to date and all that was required was a booster.

                        Shortly thereafter, a neighbor up the road about 1/2 mile lost his dog because of exposure to a rabid skunk. He had forgot to get the dog vaccinated.

                        Pooh pooh it all you want, everything on my place gets vaccinated for rabies.

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                        • #32
                          Another West Coast person, who deals with very good vets, who has never had 'rabies' suggested. And yes, there ARE yokel vets out here. I don't call them to work on my animals.

                          If I ask my non-yoke vets to vaccinate my horses for rabies, they will, no problem. Especially if I will be traveling. But it has been explained to me, that there have not been any cases within 150 miles, since a single case reported in a bull in the 1990's, 120 miles away.

                          Dogs MUST be rabies vaccinated.
                          I have had my dairy cow vaccinated for rabies, because I drink her milk raw.
                          And I have vaccinated my horses for rabies, but I don't do it every year.

                          Vaccine reactions are treatable.
                          Usually. Unless the vaccinated animal is dead from a vaccine reaction. There can be permanent damage, not just transient, Banamine-treatable owies, from vaccination.

                          Last spring most of my horses had a reaction to a rhino shot. My ranch horse was lame/out of use for more than a week. Luckily, Banamine helped and there was no permanent problem. Not having use of that horse for 10 days was a significant economic blow. We had to reschedule cow work, and keep cows on hay (rather than grazing), and 10 days of hay for 300 bovines is not cheap.
                          So future vaccines will be carefully considered, especially with my 'main' horse.


                          This is not to say that a horse that has never had a vaccine reaction, in MOST geographical areas of the US, ought to have a Rabies vaccine yearly as a matter of course.

                          But this isn't a simple 'no-brainer', there CAN be legitimate and appropriate reasons a person wouldn't vaccinate horses for rabies. And some 'non-yokel', well educated and thinking vets who would support that decision.

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                          • #33
                            Anyone who does not vaccinate animals for rabies is not smart. Here is the south, in Georgia, rabies has been a fact of life for decades and decades. I've boarded with 2 yankees who claim that the vaccine is not necessary and therefore do not vaccinate their horses. (Apparently there are no coons or wolverines or foxes or unvaccinated dogs up north????) I've boarded with those who grew up here and do not vaccinate their horses. Including one behind Skidaway Island who had about 34 (I counted them) coons who came out of the marshes and woods each day about 3:30am to forage in paddocks. Plus the cool red fox who didn't run when I rode past him. I had the only 2 horses, Cloudy and Callie, who got annual rabies vaccines at that barn.

                            The treatment for exposure to rabies is not bad. 3 shots, spaced apart, not like the old shots in the stomach of olden times. My sister was bitten by a coon last year, so I know about this, as I took her to emergency room for the first shot. She had to drive herself the other 2 times, since it was no big deal.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              It is a simple no brainer if your horse bites you or someone else and you have no proof of vaccination, they can take your horse and quarantine it for as long as they want.
                              It seems like such common sense to me.
                              "You can't really debate with someone who has a prescient invisible friend"
                              carolprudm

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                              • #35
                                Originally posted by cloudyandcallie View Post
                                Anyone who does not vaccinate animals for rabies is not smart.
                                Guess I'm just a dummy, but at least I've got good company (PNWJumper, etc....pretty much everyone I've boarded and/or shown with, etc. here in this corner of the US).

                                Continue to pile on, but I'm going to go ride my rabid horse. He does foam at the mouth but the dressage folks seem to like that.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  I vaccinate everything for rabies, as it is alive and well up and down the eastern seaboard.

                                  I will however, say that JUST BECAUSE YOU SEE WILDLIFE IN DAYLIGHT DOES NOT MEAN IT IS RABID. Frothing at the mouth and running into trees: cause for concern. Wandering, eating, watching: not a problem.
                                  Life doesn't have perfect footing.

                                  Bloggily entertain yourself with our adventures (and disasters):
                                  We Are Flying Solo

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                                  • #37
                                    I'm in the lower mainland of BC, Canada. It has never been suggested. We only vaccinate dogs if they are going across the border.

                                    I suspect it is a geographical thing. Back east, there is rabies.

                                    Of course - if there is evidence to the contrary, you can all line up behind me because I will be first in line -- not going to compromise MY baby for the price of a shot.
                                    Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique

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                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by Fillabeana View Post
                                      But it has been explained to me, that there have not been any cases within 150 miles, since a single case reported in a bull in the 1990's, 120 miles away.
                                      You're missing the key word there: documented. There have not been any documented cases within 150 miles.

                                      If a rabid raccoon dies in the woods and no one is around to see (test) it, did it have rabies?
                                      Against My Better Judgement: A blog about my new FLF OTTB
                                      Do not buy a Volkswagen. I did and I regret it.
                                      VW sucks.

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                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by amastrike View Post
                                        You're missing the key word there: documented. There have not been any documented cases within 150 miles.

                                        If a rabid raccoon dies in the woods and no one is around to see (test) it, did it have rabies?
                                        In Virginia about 10 years ago, (Loudoun County just 45 minutes west of DC), we had a rabid GROUNDHOG on our property, my husband shot it, because of its actions I fought with the county to take it's head and test it, "experts" said it was protecting a nest? in the fall. I had to climb a chain link fence to get away from it, my 3 month old coonhound puppy stood between me and it, and I had a littler of puppies in a kennel that we did not double fence. It was a nightmare. But guess what, when the stats came out for the year in the county, no listing of a groundhog with rabies. So much for accurate documentation.
                                        "We, too, will be remembered not for victories or defeats in battle or in politics, but for our contribution to the human spirit." JFK

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                                        • #40
                                          There have only been four or five human rabies survivors once symptoms have started to show and all those were under the age of 20.

                                          http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...ghlight=rabies
                                          A pussycat of a horse with a chewed off tail won the triple crown, The Cubs won the world series and Trump won the Presidency.
                                          Don't tell me 'It can't be done.'

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