• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Divorce and horses

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Originally posted by cloudyandcallie View Post
    What you need is a good lawyer, one who specializes in divorce and is what we call a "shark."

    I watched one trial in Atlanta where the dressage horses were an issue in the divorce. And other trials where dogs were fought over. Best to always buy the animals with your money, keep the cancelled checks, and register everything in your name. Prevents the nasty "spite" taking of animals and then disposing of them.

    So now you need a shark divorce lawyer. Let him get everything you want out of the divorce, including the horses. And don't appear angry or hostile in court. Judge's get turned off when women get angry and hostile in divorce court. It's ok to cry and to let the judge know how much you love your animals.

    And if you have a jury trial, well, jurors can be great and jurors can be bad.
    FYI: Please understand that in many states income earned during the marriage is marital property. Just because you may keep separate bank accounts, etc. does not mean that you do not share equally in each others money which is earned during the course of the marriage. If you had your own money going into a marriage try to keep it as separate as possible. Once you start comingling separate property with marital property it becomes difficult to trace.

    Several others have suggested keeping a detailed accounting of the cost associated with maintaining the horses during the proceedings. In many states a spouse gets credit for maintaining the marital property (the horses, a house, etc.) during the course of the proceedings. In your case the value of maintaining several horses for such a length of time may very well far exceed the value of the horses.


    Finally, G is right about the law firm. You may not be entitled to the actual law firm and valuing it is problematic under any state's laws. However, you should be entitled to a portion of the value of attributed to it. For example, if it is valued at $200,000, then your husband should be required to give up $100,000 of marital assets in exchange for the value he is keeping in the law firm. Getting it appraised early is important and your husband will not be happy about that!

    Good luck! It is a long and stressful process for anyone involved. There has been some great advice on here and some absolutely horrible advice. Your best course is to do everything completely above board and follow your lawyer's advice. Good records help you attorney immensely. It does not hurt to meet with more than one attorney if you don't have a good feeling or click with the first attorney you speak with.

    P.S. Not all judges are as awful some may think
    Last edited by quarterhorse4me; Aug. 24, 2013, 09:39 AM. Reason: poor proof reading and not enough coffee

    Comment


    • #62
      I have a similar question to OP! Not to hijack but perhaps someone could answer me this. My good friend is divorcing her abusive, angry husband. She has a horse she's raised since a foal who is her life and now at Second level. He was aquired during marriage so she will happily give him half of fair market value. However, he's spiteful and threatening to sell horse to slaughter just to upset her. She's working with a lawyer now because of this. Can she sell him to a good home for cheap, temporarily, and just pay him the real market value or can he still physically take the horse after the sale? It's not about the money but about the welfare of the horse. I'm assuming if he's sold husband can't touch him or sell him to slaughter but can come after her for the true value, which she's fine with. Anyone else done this? Just want to make sure she doesn't wake up one day in the next few months to her horse sold off to slaughter. Ugh. Men!
      Please excuse the typos...I'm always on my iPhone and autocorrect is not my friend. Yes I mean mares autocorrect...not mates.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Keg-A-Bacchus View Post
        I have a similar question to OP! Not to hijack but perhaps someone could answer me this. My good friend is divorcing her abusive, angry husband. She has a horse she's raised since a foal who is her life and now at Second level. He was aquired during marriage so she will happily give him half of fair market value. However, he's spiteful and threatening to sell horse to slaughter just to upset her. She's working with a lawyer now because of this. Can she sell him to a good home for cheap, temporarily, and just pay him the real market value or can he still physically take the horse after the sale? It's not about the money but about the welfare of the horse. I'm assuming if he's sold husband can't touch him or sell him to slaughter but can come after her for the true value, which she's fine with. Anyone else done this? Just want to make sure she doesn't wake up one day in the next few months to her horse sold off to slaughter. Ugh. Men!
        Just like the OP, it depends on the state law as to whether horses/pets are community marital property and how they are treated as property. I read some cases where the pet should go them because it meets an emotional need. You can find examples if you google the state and look for divorce law with horses or pets.
        "The sea was angry that day, my friends - like an old man trying to send back soup in a deli"

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Keg-A-Bacchus View Post
          I have a similar question to OP! Not to hijack but perhaps someone could answer me this. My good friend is divorcing her abusive, angry husband. She has a horse she's raised since a foal who is her life and now at Second level. He was aquired during marriage so she will happily give him half of fair market value. However, he's spiteful and threatening to sell horse to slaughter just to upset her. She's working with a lawyer now because of this. Can she sell him to a good home for cheap, temporarily, and just pay him the real market value or can he still physically take the horse after the sale? It's not about the money but about the welfare of the horse. I'm assuming if he's sold husband can't touch him or sell him to slaughter but can come after her for the true value, which she's fine with. Anyone else done this? Just want to make sure she doesn't wake up one day in the next few months to her horse sold off to slaughter. Ugh. Men!
          Why can't she move the horse to a new, undisclosed location? That would at least remove the worry that her horse disappears while the divorce terms are finalized. And if she isn't selling him or trying to skip out on paying half the value of the horse and is negotiating in good faith then I can not imagine simply moving the horse would hurt her. Oh, and maybe if she has to move the horse to keep him safe, she can send hubby half the bill...that would be a good question for the lawyer.

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #65
            Going to speak to atty tomorrow . I hope to make the most of my 500 dollar an hour lawyer. I make to make a list of questions that bed to be answered ASAP in regard to the horses, law firm and the house.
            Any ideas? My brain is so jumbled I can't think straight.

            Comment


            • #66
              Unfortunately, the threat to go after property or other items, including horses, during a divorce is regularly used as a bargaining chip. I know one woman whose ex wanted full custody (guess how many times he ever came for visitation after the divorce?) , the house, and basically everything. He dropped everything, in return for her not claiming her legal portion of his military retirement. I believe 'play dirty' was invented for divorce cases.
              You can't fix stupid-Ron White

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #67
                Yea. I'm trying to get angry. He left me for another woman. We have three kids together one of them is an infant . I am in shock. I'm trying to stop crying and get angry. But I'm so emotionally messed up that I can't begin to think straight.
                And then the horses? Why? I can't figure it out. I suppose I am just the starter wife. Lol. His new gf is in her early 20.
                Ugh

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by bellaalexander View Post
                  Yea. I'm trying to get angry. He left me for another woman. We have three kids together one of them is an infant . I am in shock. I'm trying to stop crying and get angry. But I'm so emotionally messed up that I can't begin to think straight.
                  And then the horses? Why? I can't figure it out. I suppose I am just the starter wife. Lol. His new gf is in her early 20.
                  Ugh
                  This just happened to my neighbor's daughter. Four kids, he left and cut off her credit cards, debit cards, the works. She tried to put gas in the car and all her cards were closed. And he's trying for full custody of the kids. This is the guy who never spent any time with them...it's all just to try to make her cave on the divorce settlement.

                  He's still trying to play games with his finances (partner in a marketing firm). Her Mom & Dad have been spending a lot of time with her...got her a really aggressive lawyer and he's finally paying his interim support payments.

                  I don't know why some people just don't have a conscience...but clearly they don't.

                  Do you have anyone to help you?

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    First - OP, I am so sorry you are going thru this. I don't have any advice other than to agree with those who say, "Don't do anything underhanded."

                    Reading these posts reminded me of why I don't like "Men" as a group.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Interesting reading; http://archive.flsenate.gov/Statutes...61-%3EPart%20I


                      Other points to check; (cos this is off the "net")
                      With this in mind you might want to gather evidence of adultery.

                      Florida is a "no fault" divorce state. This means that either party may seek a divorce without proving any reason for it other than the spouses don't want to be married anymore. The spouse seeking a divorce simply needs to state that the marriage is "irretrievably broken." This rule relieves the court of the complicated duty of deciding who is at fault, and the parties to the marriage are spared having to talk about painful personal issues in court.

                      Effect of Adultery on Child Custody
                      However, if one spouse committed adultery, it might affect other elements of the divorce. For example, "moral fitness" is one of the factors the court considers in making custody decisions, so if one parent can prove that the other parent's adultery had or is reasonably likely to have an adverse impact on the child, the judge might limit that parent's custody or visitation.

                      Effect of Adultery on Property Division

                      Adultery may also affect the division of marital property and debts. Florida is an equitable distribution state, so there is a presumption that the marital assets and liabilities should be evenly divided. This presumption may, however, be overcome by proof that one spouse has intentionally dissipated or wasted marital assets. Gifts, trips, apartment rent, car payments, and dinners for a non-marital partner are all considered a waste of marital assets. The court may reduce the adulterer's share of martial assets to compensate the other spouse for this waste.

                      Effect of Adultery on Spousal Support (Alimony)

                      Florida laws specifically list adultery as a factor to be considered in determining the amount of alimony awarded, but courts have struggled to reconcile the consideration of adultery with the "no fault" concept. The bottom line is that judges will only increase a wronged spouse's alimony if the adulterous conduct somehow increases that spouse's monetary needs.


                      ... _. ._ .._. .._

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #71
                        It's seems that adultery doesn't matter . :-(
                        He has never spent more that 2 hours with the baby. Not sure how he could get even partial custody.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Ask your attorney, but NO, DON'T try to hide assets.
                          Not any of them, horse, dog or goldfish.
                          That will count against you!

                          Take a deep breath and put your emotions in another track, try being pragmatic about the business of parting company.
                          Don't let him goad you into thinking with your feelings and doing and saying stuff that should not be done or said.

                          Be careful, try to have someone around any time you talk with him in person, sounds like he can become physically dangerous if mad enough.

                          If possible, get a good family counselor to help you get thru this, they see this all the time and can teach you ways to cope.
                          If you don't know anyone, ask your family physician, they send patients to them all the time and know who would be best for your situation.
                          I think your kids will thank you, the better support you can find to be there in one piece for them.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Do you have the horses at home or are they boarded? If at home be sure that someone is always there so that they cannot be removed from the property. If boarded it could be harder to keep him from having them removed as it would involve a third party (BO). In that case I would change boarding barns to one he is not familar with. (Note, you are not trying to sell/hide assets from his lawyers, only to protect those assets from dissapearing off the face of the earth!) If he removes/disposses of them before the divorce it would be next to impossible to get them back. You would then be fighting for the value (part value) of them.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by bellaalexander View Post
                              Yea. I'm trying to get angry. He left me for another woman. We have three kids together one of them is an infant . I am in shock. I'm trying to stop crying and get angry. But I'm so emotionally messed up that I can't begin to think straight.
                              And then the horses? Why? I can't figure it out. I suppose I am just the starter wife. Lol. His new gf is in her early 20.
                              Ugh
                              He sees them as the only thing he can use as leverage. Everything else is on your side.
                              Get your big girl panties on and make sure you get a good settlement for yourself and those babies.
                              ... _. ._ .._. .._

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by bellaalexander View Post
                                It's seems that adultery doesn't matter . :-(
                                He has never spent more that 2 hours with the baby. Not sure how he could get even partial custody.
                                Some men do consider just being in the home (obv when married/living with mom) to be "spending time with the kids". Esp when the kids are babies/very little.
                                But child custody overall does lean away from full custody for one partner unless there's a good reason. If dad wants partial custody, odds are he'll get something. For the baby no overnights, those don't typically start until 18-24 months old, but daytime visitation can start while the kid is a baby.

                                These are just generalities, of course, and no one can predict what will happen in your divorce case with custody. But I'd make my peace with the idea of some kind of partial custody arrangement (partial legal, possibly partial physical); once you're ok with that, he can't manipulate you into accepting less assets than you're due by holding custody over your head. Custody can always be revisited, so him agreeing to back off custody can only be temporary, but marital asset division generally won't be revisited.
                                Proud Member Of The Lady Mafia

                                Comment


                                • #76
                                  He's threatening the horses, will probably try for custody, and all property he can get to force you to make concessions. My guess is that the kids won't see him very much after the divorce, and the second he starts popping more out with his little poopsie that he'll be out of the kids lives forever. I hope you have a great attorney, and don't be surprised if they make you have forced joint counseling. Many states do this when kids are involved. Just keep your cool, and let your attorney handle it. And since he's moved out, change the locks. Do not trust anyone no matter how close they are, even your relatives, with details you don't want him to know. Some people do strange things during divorces, and you don't want him to find out about your personal business and use it against you.
                                  You can't fix stupid-Ron White

                                  Comment


                                  • #77
                                    OP be on high alert that you don't get depressed which could then take all the fight out of you. If you have a new baby and are going through this ordeal I'm afraid depression could cripple your resolve. Take care of yourself now and make sure you play it smart; no do-overs.
                                    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.” Stephen R. Covey

                                    Comment


                                    • #78
                                      Originally posted by cowboymom View Post
                                      OP be on high alert that you don't get depressed which could then take all the fight out of you. If you have a new baby and are going through this ordeal I'm afraid depression could cripple your resolve. Take care of yourself now and make sure you play it smart; no do-overs.
                                      ^^ This. ^^
                                      America dialed 911. Donald Trump answered the phone.

                                      Stop pumping money into colleges and start getting ready to earn money in the projected tradesman shortage of 2024. Make Trades Great Again!

                                      Comment


                                      • #79
                                        Originally posted by bellaalexander View Post
                                        Going to speak to atty tomorrow . I hope to make the most of my 500 dollar an hour lawyer. I make to make a list of questions that bed to be answered ASAP in regard to the horses, law firm and the house.
                                        Any ideas? My brain is so jumbled I can't think straight.
                                        If your attorney's initial interview is anything like mine, s/he will want to know what the two of you own (no matter whose name it's titled in) and where the money came from to acquire it; what the two of you owe (again, individually and jointly) and what you bought with the money you borrowed.

                                        Also ask the lawyer what percentage of his/her cases are family law cases. Don't get someone who mostly does some other kind of case (civil, criminal, whatever). Family law in most states is its own subspecialty, even if the state doesn't classify it as such (mine doesn't). You need somebody who does it for a living, not just the occasional case.

                                        Please don't try to find a "shark" or a "divorce bitch" or whatever. That attorney will only cost you more money because s/he will run up fees on you in the process of being a "shark." S/he won't necessarily get you more and may get you less (although s/he will do a good job of making you think you raped the other side so you'll tell your friends). Judges don't like these gals and guys any better than the rest of the bar do and sometimes clients wind up suffering for the "shark's" transgressions. Don't let that client be you!

                                        Instead, hire someone who can tell you, in a professional and not emotional manner, what you are entitled to and what you're likely to get. Run from the lawyer who guarantees you a certain result! And since you have children, hire someone who can talk to you about what's in the best interests of your children and your family going forward. I know this guy has hurt you, and he's an immoral jerk. But y'all have children together and one day grandchildren together. This part will pass - painfully, but it will. Find you a lawyer who will represent your best interests and help you look towards your future family relationships.

                                        Have you already hired the lawyer? Or is tomorrow an initial consultation for purposes of deciding whether to hire him or her?
                                        I'm not ignoring the rules. I'm interpreting the rules. Tamal, The Great British Baking Show

                                        Comment


                                        • #80
                                          OP, do you have a close, trusted friend or family member who can go with you to your lawyer appointment? I know it is a very personal discussion with the lawyer but I can't help but think how hard it must be to deal with this stuff and how well you will grasp and remember the details of the conversation. Also, if this is a first time interview with the lawyer, it would be nice to have a second opinion of the lawyer from someone else who was there.

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X