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Divorce and horses

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  • #41
    Finealready: You have no idea what my son and I went through and shouldn't be so judgemental. It is not an easy thing to try to hold a failing marriage together and to keep things as normal as possible for a child. If you don't care for my advice that is perfectly fine it is the advice of a woman that lost everything after 15 yrs of marriage to an X that had the $$$ to pull the carpet out from not only my feet but the feet of his 9 yr old son.

    I suppose you skipped over the part of me having him convicted of spousal abuse and domestic violence and him spending family assets on a mistress or two (there seldom is only one). He kept one in an apt in Saudi and the other was taken on trips to Australia, Phillipines, England, India and the list went on. I would have been up on this had my husband lived at home like probably you are use to. My husband worked overseas and so being aware of his lifestyle and where the money was going was not possible. No the court did not care that family assets were being squandered like this. Sorry if you don't believe that's possible. Take responsibility---I'm the only one that has.

    It took us about 5 yrs to recover financially but we did recover. I worked two jobs to keep us afloat with no help from anyone. We don't live on the big fancy farm or in the big fancy house now but honestly, our little farm suits us just fine and no BS thrown at us.

    I'm really sorry that my post upset you so and in the future I will take into consideration your feelings before I hit the reply button. However, I survived living with a psycho I think I can move on from someone that doesn't agree with me, my life, or choices I have made. LOL!
    Last edited by kaluha2; Aug. 23, 2013, 05:23 PM.

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    • #42
      Registration papers do not equal title, like a car. If the horses are boarded, he should be responsible for paying half of all their bills starting from the time papers were filed...vet, farrier, training, etc. Same if they're kept at home. They are an asset...a money-sucking asset, but still an asset. Make sure your attorney understands that a change in care can dramatically change the value of the animals.
      Does soon-to-be Ex have hobbies? If he hunts, ask for his firearms. If he fishes, go for the boat. If he collects cars, go for the collection. And so on.
      It's entirely possible that he plans to use the horses as leverage against your share of the law firm. If you can get up the courage to do it, say that you'd rather just sell the horses for whatever you can get right now. Bet he backs down from that target really fast and chooses something besides the horses to use as emotional blackmail.
      "Argue for your limitations and you get to keep them."
      -Richard S. Bach

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      • #43
        Originally posted by kaluha2 View Post
        Finealready: You have no idea what my son and I went through and have no right to be so judgemental. It is not an easy thing to try to hold a failing marriage together and to keep things as normal as possible for a child. If you don't care for my advice that is perfectly fine it is the advice of a woman that lost everything after 15 yrs of marriage to an X that had the $$$ to pull the carpet out from not only my feet but the feet of his 9 yr old son.

        I suppose you skipped over the part of me having him convicted of spousal abuse and domestic violence. Take responsibility---I'm the only one that has.

        It took us about 5 yrs to recover financially but we did recover. We don't live on the big fancy farm or in the big fancy house but honestly, our little farm suits us just fine and no BS thrown at us.

        You sound like a miserable human being with zero compassion to be so ugly to someone you don't know that has been though hell and back. But that's ok I survived living with a psycho I think I can handle someone that doesn't agree with me, my life, or choices I have made. LOL!
        I'm actually a very compassionate person and really not miserable at all. I just don't appreciate your painting all attorneys as incompetent hacks, when it is clear from your post that a lot of your own bad choices, and, most likely, your own overreactive dramatics, led to your situation turning out as it did. I'm not referring so much to your actual marriage, but the divorce process that you seem to think was slated against you somehow.

        Comment


        • #44
          Originally posted by RainyDayRide View Post
          The OP has never said she is an attorney ... she has said her husband is an attorney. She also said in her first post that she had retained an attorney.
          She said, "I own a share in his law firm and I think he try to leverage the horses." Unless the rules have changed a non-attorney cannot own a share in a law firm. Thus my presumption of her status. If in her state a non-attorney can own a share in the law firm then my analysis changes only that she wears one hat, wronged spouse. If the behaves that way then she will likely suffer a bad result. If she behaves in a dignified and honest fashion her chances are much better. No gurantees, mind you, just better odds.

          G.
          Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

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          • #45
            Originally posted by Guilherme View Post
            If she behaves in a dignified and honest fashion her chances are much better.
            Yes, this is just generally good advice in all legal matters. Try not to panic and start doing all kinds of crazy stuff (like selling a horse to your parents for a $1 and giving your spouse $0.50 as their "share"). Judges don't look favorably on that kind of bulls*it. It does no good for anyone, and hinders your attorney in representing you if you just amp everything up to professional-level crazy right out of the box.

            And, also, yes, I don't know of any states in which a non-lawyer can hold a share in a law firm.

            Comment


            • #46
              For what it is worth, I declined alimony to avoid the fight over my horse. I bought her years before we met and married. There were other problems in the marriage, but he focused on the time and monies I spend on her. . .of course np about the time and monies he spent on his sail boat.
              Anyway it was worth the shocked look on his face when I declined alimony in court, more than once because the judge told me this decision was final.
              It was tough losing the financial support, but I went back to school and got progressivly better jobs. Then met current DH and we now live on our farm, where we support our horses, including my old mare.

              Talk to a good lawyer and good luck!
              "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
              Courtesy my cousin Tim

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              • #47
                Originally posted by trubandloki View Post
                I have one concern about the husband taking the papers from the house. If the husband manages to get the horses registered in his name then it might make things more difficult in the long run, even if that difficulty is just with getting him to sign a transfer into the wife's name after the divorce.
                That's what court orders are for.

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                • #48
                  Article with some pertinent info on FL law and horses/pets http://blog.cjamiesonlaw.com/2012/04...rida-divorces/
                  "The sea was angry that day, my friends - like an old man trying to send back soup in a deli"

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by Guilherme View Post
                    This is really bad advice. It could be construed as fraud. If one spouse can put the black hat on another then all bets are off when it comes to property settlement. The status quo should be maintained at all costs.

                    And this is particularly true of the ex took the papers and has physical custody of them. Because in that case they are not "lost" (we know just where they are). Make a claim of "lost papers" would be one lie and changing the names would be two lies. Judges really hate it when a litigant lies.

                    The OP is wearing two hats: wronged spouse and attorney-at-law. If they act like a wronged spouse they will likely have a very bad result. If they act like an attorney and follow the rules scrupulously the odds of a good result go way up.

                    G.
                    Okay, please explain to me how transferring papers out of the BREEDER'S name constitutes fraud??? If the horses MUST be sold and the ex has stolen the papers, it would be helpful to have them on hand in the owner's name. Just because they are in a divorce does not mean he will cough them up suddenly.

                    And where does it state that he has custody of the horses, or are you making a guess?
                    America dialed 911. Donald Trump answered the phone.

                    Stop pumping money into colleges and start getting ready to earn money in the projected tradesman shortage of 2024. Make Trades Great Again!

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by trubandloki View Post
                      I have one concern about the husband taking the papers from the house. If the husband manages to get the horses registered in his name then it might make things more difficult in the long run, even if that difficulty is just with getting him to sign a transfer into the wife's name after the divorce.
                      I didn't want to say that on the board, but that was my worry when I posted about transferring them out of the breeder's name. Even if the OP gets them put in her name and has to have them on the table at settlement, or even both their names, it can prevent that from happening.
                      America dialed 911. Donald Trump answered the phone.

                      Stop pumping money into colleges and start getting ready to earn money in the projected tradesman shortage of 2024. Make Trades Great Again!

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        What you need is a good lawyer, one who specializes in divorce and is what we call a "shark."

                        I watched one trial in Atlanta where the dressage horses were an issue in the divorce. And other trials where dogs were fought over. Best to always buy the animals with your money, keep the cancelled checks, and register everything in your name. Prevents the nasty "spite" taking of animals and then disposing of them.

                        So now you need a shark divorce lawyer. Let him get everything you want out of the divorce, including the horses. And don't appear angry or hostile in court. Judge's get turned off when women get angry and hostile in divorce court. It's ok to cry and to let the judge know how much you love your animals.

                        And if you have a jury trial, well, jurors can be great and jurors can be bad.

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                        • #52
                          Originally posted by RubyTuesday View Post
                          Okay, please explain to me how transferring papers out of the BREEDER'S name constitutes fraud??? If the horses MUST be sold and the ex has stolen the papers, it would be helpful to have them on hand in the owner's name. Just because they are in a divorce does not mean he will cough them up suddenly.

                          And where does it state that he has custody of the horses, or are you making a guess?
                          In your post, you suggested that the OP get the papers transferred to her parents. The OP's parents don't own the horses, and based on her posts, never have. Most of us would consider putting non-owners on the registration papers as owners to be fraud.

                          ETA: I should have said in your first post that you quickly edited as I typed mine to remove a blatantly stupid suggestion. Nice cover though.
                          Last edited by red mares; Aug. 23, 2013, 09:40 PM. Reason: RT's fantastic cya
                          Visit my Spoonflower shop

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                          • #53
                            It depends a whole lot on your position in the divorce. ie; Who did what and to whom etc. In my state you cannot have a relationship outside your marriage whilst still married and hope to come out of a divorce well. I was able to write my own divorce settlement, and refused to allow any pets or horses to be any part of it. I could do this because I employed a PI with a video camera and a good divorce attorney. It didn't help that the ex lied to his lawyer, who consequently dumped him. All the rest of the "stuff" with value I divided between the two of us on a sheet of paper with two columns, and shifted things around until the columns were equal.
                            I got the house, business and horses he got all the expensive toys and the brassy bimbo !

                            You cannot transfer assets within a certain time of filing for divorce. It may vary by State though. A lot of your decision making will be influenced by the laws of your particular state, so you need to make yourself familiar with them in order to manipulate the situation. I found the really expensive divorce attorney through a lawyer friend I hunted with, who had used him. He was not so much a shark as a steam roller. Ex ended up paying half that bill too. What you have to be is strong, smart and prepared to stand your ground, because he thinks he is going to take advantage of an emotional wreck..
                            Last edited by Equibrit; Aug. 23, 2013, 08:34 PM.
                            ... _. ._ .._. .._

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                            • #54
                              Originally posted by red mares View Post
                              In your post, you suggested that the OP get the papers transferred to her parents. The OP's parents don't own the horses, and based on her posts, never have. Most of us would consider putting non-owners on the registration papers as owners to be fraud.
                              I never once mentioned the parents. That is for the OP to decide who is going to be on them. You perhaps have me confused with the post that came after mine. I did suggest getting the papers transferred, which they should have been before now, and I personally think it is more critical at this time.

                              The shark lawyer is a great suggestion, to whoever said that.
                              America dialed 911. Donald Trump answered the phone.

                              Stop pumping money into colleges and start getting ready to earn money in the projected tradesman shortage of 2024. Make Trades Great Again!

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Just figure the horses are a bargaining chip. A good valuation of them would be a good thing, better to let the lawyers pick a "disinterested 3rd party" vs. a good bud who'd lowball their values.

                                Good luck.
                                "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"

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                                • Original Poster

                                  #56
                                  Wow. Thank you for so much needed advice. I truly appreciate it.
                                  Hopefully my attny can get me the horses and share of the business. I'm going to give up the house and rent something. I am hopeful that I will get my horses without issue. I have contacted the registery and will apply for duplicate papers


                                  On another note... I own 2 horses in Germany. Is anyone familiar on the law over seas?

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by RubyTuesday View Post
                                    Okay, please explain to me how transferring papers out of the BREEDER'S name constitutes fraud??? If the horses MUST be sold and the ex has stolen the papers, it would be helpful to have them on hand in the owner's name. Just because they are in a divorce does not mean he will cough them up suddenly.

                                    And where does it state that he has custody of the horses, or are you making a guess?
                                    It's not what they are transferred out of it's what they are transferred into.

                                    When titled property is divided in a divorce settlement (or bankruptcy or levy of execution or any other legal proceeding) the court will issue an order to the titleing agency ordering them to issue an appropriate title in an appropriate name. While having the original papers would be a Good Thing it's not a necessary thing.

                                    I have no idea who has custody of the horses. I'm only addressing issues of the title.

                                    G.
                                    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Originally posted by bellaalexander View Post
                                      Wow. Thank you for so much needed advice. I truly appreciate it.
                                      Hopefully my attny can get me the horses and share of the business. I'm going to give up the house and rent something. I am hopeful that I will get my horses without issue. I have contacted the registery and will apply for duplicate papers


                                      On another note... I own 2 horses in Germany. Is anyone familiar on the law over seas?
                                      Now that's a really good question I think your lawyer will need to do some digging on.

                                      Eta: don't be too quick to give up anything. Shoot for the moon and hope to hit the horizon, as they say. Don't sell out short.
                                      Last edited by RubyTuesday; Aug. 24, 2013, 01:17 AM.
                                      America dialed 911. Donald Trump answered the phone.

                                      Stop pumping money into colleges and start getting ready to earn money in the projected tradesman shortage of 2024. Make Trades Great Again!

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by red mares View Post
                                        In your post, you suggested that the OP get the papers transferred to her parents. The OP's parents don't own the horses, and based on her posts, never have. Most of us would consider putting non-owners on the registration papers as owners to be fraud.

                                        ETA: I should have said in your first post that you quickly edited as I typed mine to remove a blatantly stupid suggestion. Nice cover though.
                                        Nice claim. One wonders how you think that assertion can be helpful in this situation. I'm sure it does nothing to advance the OP's resolution of the problem at hand, or the safety or well being of the horses in question.
                                        America dialed 911. Donald Trump answered the phone.

                                        Stop pumping money into colleges and start getting ready to earn money in the projected tradesman shortage of 2024. Make Trades Great Again!

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          OP, sorry you are going through this. :-(

                                          I was originally going to say that if you paid for the horses with your own money, (as you said you did), had proof of it, and had them registered in your name only, that that should help your case (though as others have said, state laws vary). But, since the papers are still in the breeder's name, that seems to throw a twist in it. I wonder if it may be a positive, though?

                                          I may be wrong, but my understanding, at least in some states, is that it is the actual bill of sale that proves ownership, not necessarily the registration papers. Someone asked in an earlier post if you had a bill of sale, but I did not see the response. Do you? Or does he have that too?

                                          It would almost seem that if you don't have a bill of sale and if the papers are not in your name, that the breeder would appear to then still be the owner, meaning that your husband can't try to take them from you.

                                          Of course, that may be completely wrong as well. Maybe others can speak to it?

                                          I went through a divorce eleven years ago, and I thank God that it was amicable and that my ex is a good guy. I really feel for you and others that have to deal with a*holes who are just out to take advantage of you.

                                          In any case, I would do what I think others have said and break down a list of all of the expenses associated with the horse, not only to prove its value or lack thereof, but if you paid for it out of your own funds and not a joint account, I would think that would also help your case.

                                          Good luck. I hope it all works out in your favor.
                                          Mary/New Horizons Haflinger Sport Horses
                                          Standing Stellar TVR, 2013 N.A. Stallion Testing/lifetime licensed WE, RPSI, AWS, AHR
                                          www.newhorizonshaflingers.com

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