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Divorce and horses

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  • #21
    If you're planning something that is not 100% above the board (trying to do a quick sale out from under ex-hub) please be careful what you post on here....you never know what he might see.

    Comment


    • #22
      Originally posted by Appsolute View Post
      Selling the horses is not sound advice. Even with a bill of sale for $1. Could be deemd fraudulent and he could come after you for market value.

      Perhaps not "good" but you need a talented and successful lawyer who has handled and proven to have favorable outcomes in similar situations.

      What area of law does your husband practice? Just because someone is a lawyer does not mean that they are an expert in all areas of law.
      Thing is, "market value" right now is low on anything but the best. Maybe the OP should have an appraiser come out of her choosing and get an estimate if this is what she wants to do.
      America dialed 911. Donald Trump answered the phone.

      Stop pumping money into colleges and start getting ready to earn money in the projected tradesman shortage of 2024. Make Trades Great Again!

      Comment


      • #23
        Originally posted by bellaalexander View Post
        Have appt with my attny on Monday morning. Hopefully will have good news. Is it true that the horses can't just be split? They are split by value? All of my horses are under 3. So are not broke. My one show horse did the gp but has had a few bad injuries in the past and is pretty much retired.

        I'm really pissed off because he came in the house and stole all the registration papers.
        I could quickly order new papers and put them in my parents name.
        They are all still in the original breeders name.
        Order the new papers NOW...send for them overnight mail. Alert the breeder...not about any situation but the lost papers...and get them in order. Get the paperwork before this becomes a real trainwreck, unless you think it would serve your interests more to NOT have the papers on the horses and go for the transfer later. Grade horses are worth less, but I don't know that I would trust him to not muck things up with you getting those papers in order and if you DO lose the horses, they would do better to have their papers.
        America dialed 911. Donald Trump answered the phone.

        Stop pumping money into colleges and start getting ready to earn money in the projected tradesman shortage of 2024. Make Trades Great Again!

        Comment


        • #24
          I'm not a lawyer, but I don't see how ordering replacement papers in your parents name is going to help you much. If/when they are needed, your ex is going to produce the originals and you're going to show up with a newer set (all of mine are dated) that have their name on them. Which will raise a lot of questions. If they have half a brain (which apparently he does), your ex &/ his attorney will then ask for the bills of sales for these horse to your parents, and point out that HE never signed them, even though the horses are marital property. Which brings you back to question of the fraudlent sale to your parents.

          I would think the orignal bills of sale, presumably to you only, would be helpful. Since the papers were never transferred, I don't think they are going to help you much now.
          Visit my Spoonflower shop

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          • #25
            Originally posted by Guilherme View Post
            Divorce always entails "horse trading." In this case it's literal.

            Get competant counsel and let them do their job.

            G.

            Member, State Bar of Texas (Retired)
            Yep. My hardest cases involve fixing what a client has done when s/he tried to act as his or her own lawyer. And the most hare-brained schemes always seem to be inspired internet advice. Just sayin'.
            I'm not ignoring the rules. I'm interpreting the rules. Tamal, The Great British Baking Show

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            • #26
              Originally posted by red mares View Post
              I'm not a lawyer, but I don't see how ordering replacement papers in your parents name is going to help you much. If/when they are needed, your ex is going to produce the originals and you're going to show up with a newer set (all of mine are dated) that have their name on them. Which will raise a lot of questions. If they have half a brain (which apparently he does), your ex &/ his attorney will then ask for the bills of sales for these horse to your parents, and point out that HE never signed them, even though the horses are marital property. Which brings you back to question of the fraudlent sale to your parents.

              I would think the orignal bills of sale, presumably to you only, would be helpful. Since the papers were never transferred, I don't think they are going to help you much now.
              No, but she should get the papers transferred just in case the worst should happen. Then the papers will have someone's name on them besides the breeder's AND she will have a copy in HER hands.

              Her best card to play, of course, remains the fact that she owns a share of the law firm. Let us hope it is a lucrative one.
              America dialed 911. Donald Trump answered the phone.

              Stop pumping money into colleges and start getting ready to earn money in the projected tradesman shortage of 2024. Make Trades Great Again!

              Comment


              • #27
                I got divorced with 3 horses.

                But they are all hay-burning nags and he wanted not part of them.

                It helps if they have no value.

                Do you still have bills of sale with prices on them? And for the retired show horse, perhaps something from a vet showing that the horse's value is greatly diminished? If he was insured and you got loss of use I would think those papers might be handy right now.

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by pAin't_Misbehavin' View Post
                  Please don't rush into some fraudulent transfer of marital property. It can come back to bite you big time. Cause yeah, judges never catch on to those.

                  Discuss this issue with your attorney.
                  THANK YOU! Same applies if you are considering filing for bankruptcy. Let an attorney help you work out a solution, rather than just digging a deeper hole.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by kaluha2 View Post
                    No the courts don't give a damn and I have to laugh out loud when someone says---make sure you get a good lawyer----what an oximoron.

                    My advice---do what YOU need to do.
                    Clearly you did not have a good lawyer. Which is the reason why people tell you to get a good one.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Certainly meet with your attorney first but if you're separated now, make sure to keep tabs on every dime they're costing you. He can't have it both ways- if you both own them, then he needs to be paying 1/2 of the bills. He may be happy to let you have them when it becomes apparent that their costs are quickly outpacing their market value.
                      http://patchworkfarmga.com

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by kaluha2 View Post
                        Well, I gotta tell ya. I found myself in exactly this predicament with a very vengeful and intimidating X husband to be. He wanted and asked the court that I have the horse put down eventhough I said I'd sell the horse and give him half. Finally he agreed.

                        And so I went down to my nearest handicapped riding program and my friend bought my horse for $1.00 papers and all and my 3rd level horse was now carting around handicapped kids. I went into court, walked over to his attorney and gave him the $.50/his half and a copy of the bill of sale.

                        Here's what the court in the end DID NOT care about in my divorce: that he had well over $300,000 in the Caymen Islands,

                        that he had put his mistress up in an apt in Riyadh and bought new furniture in the Philippines and paid to have it shipped over to Saudi on our joint accts (ultimately sticking me with this bill),

                        that he had cleaned out our bank accts,

                        that he stopped paying the mortgage three months prior sticking me with all those bills too.

                        that I had him arrested and convicted of spousal abuse and domestic violence.

                        The court did not care how I was going to feed our little boy either and it was 1solid year before I got any child support and had to file my own motion to have him hauled into court for that.

                        No the courts don't give a damn and I have to laugh out loud when someone says---make sure you get a good lawyer----what an oximoron.

                        My advice---do what YOU need to do.
                        Terrible advice. Additionally, it's not your (admittedly crappy-sounding) lawyer's fault that you married a huge a-hole. Nor is it every other lawyer in the country's fault that you hired a crappy lawyer. Good grief. Take some responsibility for your life. You honestly sound like a nightmare of a client, so it is not surprising to me that you didn't get the results you hoped for...regardless of your lawyer's competence or lack of competence. Contrary to what you seem to believe, the entire legal system, including the judge presiding over your divorce matter, is not out to get you.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          I had the same concern when I was going through mine... That my EH (ex husband) was going to try to take the horses or get me to pay for fair market value. I had 3 at the time, all worth more than 'average' and I was getting out as soon as I could afford to so I didn't have any extra money to pay him off (he was a financial pit).

                          The 3 horses were acquired with funds I had prior to the marriage. 2 babies that were born or on the way prior to the marriage. My show gelding was bought with proceeds from the sale of another horse that was owned prior to the marriage, even though the show horse was paid for out of the joint account he couldn't have gone after him because it was a 'transferred asset'. I'm in Alabama so it doesn't help you much but look into the FL laws there may be something there if you can prove the horses were purchased with your funds...

                          I say play the partial ownership of the firm card... or start adding up his assets and ask for half of fair market value.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            We had several when I got divorced. Ex was smart enough to only claim interest in the one we acquired while married. His attorney stipulated a value. I showed all the board/vet bills the mare had run up while in my possession after ex bailed. At that point, ex wanted the horse and all the bills associated with it, thrown out of the equation.

                            Hire the right attorney and as someone else said, let them do their job. I do know of a few folks who've had sorry attorneys but I know of more who continued to mix & stir and spar with their ex and make matters worse.

                            Good luck to you!!

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              I am not a lawyer by any means. But isn't that what appraisers are for? Have the horses appraised and you might have to sell them or buy out his half. Just don't talk your horses up to the appraiser
                              Derby Lyn Farms Website

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                              Comment


                              • #35
                                I second those who are saying keep up with the monthly cost of feed, vet farrier. If your ex tries to assert a claim for the horses you could assert a claim for reimbursement of those costs. At that point he may let it go. Talk to your attorney about it, and don't do anything that could make you look less than honest.

                                My BO had a client going through a similar situation. The ex was bragging he was going to take the horse and put it down out of spite. BO told client to stop paying board. BO then had a lien for board the ex would have to pay prior to removing horse from barn. Needless to say, ex dropped it.

                                Not in any way advocating you do something like that - but if the horses take money out of his pocket he'll probably back off.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by Finzean View Post
                                  We had several when I got divorced. Ex was smart enough to only claim interest in the one we acquired while married. His attorney stipulated a value. I showed all the board/vet bills the mare had run up while in my possession after ex bailed. At that point, ex wanted the horse and all the bills associated with it, thrown out of the equation.

                                  Hire the right attorney and as someone else said, let them do their job. I do know of a few folks who've had sorry attorneys but I know of more who continued to mix & stir and spar with their ex and make matters worse.

                                  Good luck to you!!
                                  Oh you are are smart... If there's one thing that horses are good at it's running up bills.

                                  OP - so sorry you are going through this. Having known my SO while he was going through his divorce and having been with him while he goes through what seems like never ending custody battles with his ex-wife I feel for you. You've given me one more reason why I never want to legally marry. Ceremony and party? Sounds great. Signing legal documents that require a judge or arbitration to dissolve? Oh hells no!

                                  I can't imagine how tough it would be to have the threat of losing my boys over my head. While in the eyes of the law they may be property, emotionally they are the farthest thing from that to us. What an a-hole. And to whomever wrote that their ex tried to demand that they euth the horse? W.T.F. I am at a loss for words. Some people are just straight up disgusting human beings.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by RubyTuesday View Post
                                    No, but she should get the papers transferred just in case the worst should happen. Then the papers will have someone's name on them besides the breeder's AND she will have a copy in HER hands.

                                    Her best card to play, of course, remains the fact that she owns a share of the law firm. Let us hope it is a lucrative one.
                                    This is really bad advice. It could be construed as fraud. If one spouse can put the black hat on another then all bets are off when it comes to property settlement. The status quo should be maintained at all costs.

                                    And this is particularly true of the ex took the papers and has physical custody of them. Because in that case they are not "lost" (we know just where they are). Make a claim of "lost papers" would be one lie and changing the names would be two lies. Judges really hate it when a litigant lies.

                                    The OP is wearing two hats: wronged spouse and attorney-at-law. If they act like a wronged spouse they will likely have a very bad result. If they act like an attorney and follow the rules scrupulously the odds of a good result go way up.

                                    G.
                                    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by Guilherme View Post

                                      The OP is wearing two hats: wronged spouse and attorney-at-law. If they act like a wronged spouse they will likely have a very bad result. If they act like an attorney and follow the rules scrupulously the odds of a good result go way up.

                                      G.

                                      The OP has never said she is an attorney ... she has said her husband is an attorney. She also said in her first post that she had retained an attorney.
                                      Nevertheless, she persisted.

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        The only regulated and recorded value is your weekly horse sale, have the horse sale give you an appraisal ,,,which will not be much and buy his half out....a horse is only valued at the amount someone is willing to pay at that moment in time...
                                        Take care
                                        [URL="http://rygarhorsetransport.com"]http://rygarhorsetransport.com[/URL

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                                        • #40
                                          I have one concern about the husband taking the papers from the house. If the husband manages to get the horses registered in his name then it might make things more difficult in the long run, even if that difficulty is just with getting him to sign a transfer into the wife's name after the divorce.

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