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I feel like I'm overstepping my boundaries...

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  • #21
    My mind is boggled both by the original poster saying not taking lessons is not an option and Skyy saying ' Not taking lessons is not an option'. Who on earth would, and why on earth would anyone, ever want to be so locked into lessons!? About the only time that might make sense is either a clueless newbie that needs them, or someone competing at the very rarest, stratified atmosphere of upper level showing, that might need some fine-tuning. I am so blessed that I have knowledge sufficient that I do not need lessons to enjoy my horse, although I certainly have sought out educational opportunities throughout the past 50+ years that I have been riding. Sadly, I am more knowledgeable than many so-called trainers these days. I thrive on being an AOT.

    To the OP, no you are not overstepping any boundaries. It is your horse. The trainer works for/serves you, not the other way around.
    Jeanie
    RIP Sasha, best dog ever, pictured shortly before she died, Death either by euthanasia or natural causes is only the end of the animal inhabiting its body; I believe the spirit lives on.

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    • #22
      Wow - we all inhabit very different horse worlds.

      My horse, my way - but then again, she lives here. The only person who argues with me is my 14-year-old niece, who also lives here. I tell her she can do it her way when it is HER horse at HER house.

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      • #23
        sdllbredfan - some boarding situations make it a condition that you take x #of lessons or/and have your horse in training as they are not just a "boarding" facility. One of the reasons a person wants to board in one of these situations is because they plan to lesson & want/need help w/ their horses. Where I live there are few options for a situation where you can board and have lessons when you want - either the barns are straight boarding barns w/no trainer or they are show barns where you are expected show... and then of course you have to weigh in what you want in terms of care/facility, location, and budget.. it's not always easy

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        • #24
          Full training = includes lessons, I 'get that'. But just boarding? I thought this was just a boarding situation, not that the horse is actually in a full training program.
          ETA, I boarded at a nice H/J place in Omaha several years ago, that included lessons, but they were not mandatory. One could take lessons, or not. I actually did, was kind of fun to refresh my jumping knowledge, since the horse I had at the time was only capable of flatwork.
          Jeanie
          RIP Sasha, best dog ever, pictured shortly before she died, Death either by euthanasia or natural causes is only the end of the animal inhabiting its body; I believe the spirit lives on.

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          • #25
            Originally posted by sdlbredfan View Post
            Full training = includes lessons, I 'get that'. But just boarding? I thought this was just a boarding situation, not that the horse is actually in a full training program.
            ETA, I boarded at a nice H/J place in Omaha several years ago, that included lessons, but they were not mandatory. One could take lessons, or not. I actually did, was kind of fun to refresh my jumping knowledge, since the horse I had at the time was only capable of flatwork.
            There are places where it isn't full training board but not straight up boarding only barn. I know of a few places where you pay basic board and have to take a minimum of 1 lesson a week but no professional rides. They have full training available but the lowest level of boarding is board with 1 lesson a week minimum.
            For many areas it really isn't financially viable to have a nice facility with indoor/outdoor and only board. Board is not where many of the facilities make their money. It is training, lessons and additional services such as clipping, hauling to shows, braiding.
            Or the particular facility is looking for a particular type of clientel. Having a weekly lesson requirement is one way of doing that. They may not want the absentee owner. For some programs they want you to take the lesson not just pay for it and not show up.
            Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community. (Tidy Rabbit)

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            • #26
              That is interesting. I am not and never have been an absentee owner. I just would rather set my own agenda/'lesson plan' for my horse, myself. I certainly do not need lessons to 'make me show up'. That is beyond weird...
              Jeanie
              RIP Sasha, best dog ever, pictured shortly before she died, Death either by euthanasia or natural causes is only the end of the animal inhabiting its body; I believe the spirit lives on.

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              • #27
                If you're paying a pro, you should respect her opinion. If a trainer recommended that I ride a horse that wasn't fully sound, I would immediately lose all respect for said trainer. I understand that many trainers expect full control over client's horses, but the owner should have final say. The owner is the one paying the bills. If a trainer and owner butt heads, then they need to have an honest and open conversation regarding each other's expectations. Maybe this barn isn't the best fit for you.
                http://turtlemountainfarm.com/

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by SonnysMom View Post
                  There are places where it isn't full training board but not straight up boarding only barn. I know of a few places where you pay basic board and have to take a minimum of 1 lesson a week but no professional rides. They have full training available but the lowest level of boarding is board with 1 lesson a week minimum.
                  For many areas it really isn't financially viable to have a nice facility with indoor/outdoor and only board. Board is not where many of the facilities make their money. It is training, lessons and additional services such as clipping, hauling to shows, braiding.
                  Or the particular facility is looking for a particular type of clientel. Having a weekly lesson requirement is one way of doing that. They may not want the absentee owner. For some programs they want you to take the lesson not just pay for it and not show up.
                  Yes, this is how the barn where I board is set up. There is a weekly lesson requirement (though it could also be used for training rides from the BO or one of her more advanced students -- and don't cringe, those "youngsters" are better riders than a lot of us adults at the barn.) Three trainers are available, though two of them do one-hour lessons only, which cost a bit more money. I don't think the BO makes much if any money on board. Money from lessons allows us to have very nice facilities.

                  It is a good way to run things as long as the boarder wants the lessons/training rides anyway, and gets along with the trainers.

                  There are a couple of absentee owners who pay the full price board + lessons and their horses get extra care and grooming.

                  Obviously this doesn't work for everyone and there are times it doesn't work well for me, but I like the barn enough to stick around. Please don't rag on people who want a weekly lesson! It doesn't mean that they are beginners, or top level competitive riders, just people who like to have "eyes on the ground" once a week to help them and their horse.
                  You have to have experiences to gain experience.

                  1998 Morgan mare Mythic Feronia "More Valley Girl Than Girl Scout!"

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                  • #29
                    Yes you are overstepping boundaries

                    You really need to move. Trainers barn, trainers rules. I am sure that you know a lot but here is the thing, you don't really want her input unless it is something you don't know or it is convenient. Trainer is there to make money and by clipping your own horse she does not, also sets an example to others that hey if you want to do your own thing go ahead! If you don't want to move due to great care 24/7 that most owners can't provide on their own (not all, but most) then you need to have a conversation with her and get to know each other. Maybe she can use you in the barn in some capacity where you feel useful and she does not feel like you are a rogue. I do want to point out to people that even though people pay to board you are still a guest in someone's home, a boarder if you will (for those of you that remember what a boarding house is, for those that don't it's kind of like a dorm). You still need to have manners, clean up after yourselves, make yourselves comfortable but don't let me find you in bed with my husband...lol! In other words, don't cross the line.

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                    • #30
                      And BTW everyone, sometimes when a horse is off, depending on where and the circumstances the vet does recommend walking and even trotting. Life is more gray then you think.

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                      • #31
                        Anyone that boards at my farm has to take lessons. No other option. We are small and this is my livelihood. If you don't want lessons you cant board with me. Plus it cuts down on liability when I know everyone is practicing and being safe. Rogues are not allowed at my barn, too much too lose over someone acting silly.

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                        • #32
                          Originally posted by AlterTops View Post
                          A few examples: Trainer clipped Mare when she moved in. She needed it BAD. A few months later, she needed to be clipped again, my clippers had arrived at this point, so I went to it! Trainer seemed a little peeved that I didn't have her clip Mare again.
                          Did trainer get paid extra for clip? Control is sometimes about income...
                          Mare is off. Vet says 'give her X days off'. Mare is still off. After more time off, trainer does W/T says she's feeling better. I get on a few days later. Not 100%. I say let's hold off until vet sees her again. Again, she seems peeved, since I want to do something different than what she recommends.
                          See above comment. How much do you pay her per ride?

                          Am I overreacting? Overstepping my boundaries? Any suggestions on how to handle things in the future? I really like the barn and want to stay, but I don't want trainer to be mad at me when I make decisions on my own.
                          It's your horse. What are your boundaries? Boarding a horse or taking lessons is not synonymous with handing over 100% control of the animal. If you're not comfortable with that, and if your new trainer does not / will not respect your rights as owner, then you're at the wrong barn. Certain exclusions would apply to that comment (i.e., if you're a completely unreasonable PITA of a client), but clipping your horse and following vet's orders are not unreasonable.
                          "I did know once, only I've sort of forgotten." - Winnie the Pooh

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                          • #33
                            she 'seemed' peeved? you just moved there, don't know her well, are you SURE she's annoyed, and that's not just her? I mean, have you tried talking to her?
                            Different Times Equestrian Ventures at Hidden Spring Ranch
                            www.DifferentTimesEquestrianVentures.com

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                            • #34
                              I think you are just a different type of client than she is used to, and you are just getting to know each other. I think it is too soon to say this barn is not going to work out for you. Time for a open discussion with her, I think, on your expectations and hers.

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                              • #35
                                Personally I would not board in a place that assumed that much control over my horse-- to me, the hands-on care is how you develop a strong bond with your horse. But just to play devils advocate, maybe you haven't communicated enough with the trainer, and perhaps her attitude comes from the feeling that you're implicitly criticizing her. I know of someone who has a boarder who does the kind of stuff you're doing-- stepping in and handling things that the barn normally handles. She is hyper zealous about "injuries" (when they're just scrapes), turnout arrangements, etc. And not surprisingly she's known as "the PITA Boarder." Not saying that either the boarder or the barn is wrong, just that what a boarder may consider hands-on can be seen as interfering/messing with our routine by the barn.

                                Bottom line, don't let petty resentments build, so that each new "transgression" gets added to a Big Pile of Things That Are Wrong (when taken on its own, it really should not have been a big deal). Just TALK to her about how you want things to go, ask how she wants things to go, see if you can make this a better fit.

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                                • #36
                                  Just a note to all of you that think the trainer works for you. That is true to an extent, but my barn, my liability, my things, my rules....always. It takes a TEAM to work for the horse...period. If you have a mindset that I as a trainer work for you, you are sadly mistaken. I do not. I work for your horse first and we (you, me, horse, vet, chiro, farrier, etc) are a team. If you don't seem to gel or vibe with me, my boarders or students it may be in your best interest to find that place where you are most comfortable. May be time for you to find a barn/trainer that just wants your money and will kiss your A$$. ;-) Must be why I never have any vacancies in my barn, we all like each other and work together as a team at home and on the road.

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                                  • #37
                                    There are any number of barns where the general rule - spoken or unspoken - is that the trainer is more or less fully in charge of the decision making for the horses stabled there. It's just one business model among many, of course, but it's not necessarily meant to be adversarial or overly controlling.

                                    That sort of environment doesn't generally suit owners who want to be more hands-on, of course. (I put myself in that category, as a matter of fact.) But what I have found is that sometimes, I have had to deal with that sort of environment in order to get the training I wanted. As a rule, over time I was usually able to develop enough of a relationship with the trainer so that the arrangement became much more collaborative, but not always.

                                    Finding satisfactory boarding/training situations is often a matter of choosing among imperfect options. It's very easy for people on the internet to say, "Just leave!" in response to any situation that is less than ideal... but the reality is that there may not be any better alternatives that meet the OP's criteria for location, amenities, budget etc.
                                    **********
                                    We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
                                    -PaulaEdwina

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                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by ComingAttraction View Post
                                      Just a note to all of you that think the trainer works for you. That is true to an extent, but my barn, my liability, my things, my rules....always. It takes a TEAM to work for the horse...period. If you have a mindset that I as a trainer work for you, you are sadly mistaken. I do not. I work for your horse first and we (you, me, horse, vet, chiro, farrier, etc) are a team. If you don't seem to gel or vibe with me, my boarders or students it may be in your best interest to find that place where you are most comfortable. May be time for you to find a barn/trainer that just wants your money and will kiss your A$$. ;-) Must be why I never have any vacancies in my barn, we all like each other and work together as a team at home and on the road.
                                      Do you spell this out quite this plainly to each and every person who comes in? I have to wonder how many vacancies you might have if you did if you tell them this as they come in the door. Very easy to tell all the folks out in TV land how it is, but I suspect the real mileage may vary.

                                      My attitude will always remain that a trainer works for me. I do the paying and I am in charge of "the team". The day, if it ever arrives, that my way changes will be the day the horses are either sold or euthanized.
                                      America dialed 911. Donald Trump answered the phone.

                                      Stop pumping money into colleges and start getting ready to earn money in the projected tradesman shortage of 2024. Make Trades Great Again!

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                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by RubyTuesday View Post
                                        My attitude will always remain that a trainer works for me. I do the paying and I am in charge of "the team". The day, if it ever arrives, that my way changes will be the day the horses are either sold or euthanized.
                                        Wholeheartedly agree. Every "team" needs a captain and it sure as poop isn't my trainer. I know numerous barns where the trainer recognizes they are hired & paid by their clients to train horses; not manage every horse's life. Theyre all full with a waiting list too. And what trainer would want to waste time micromanaging when they could be training? I'd think it'd behoove them to make the owner do the managing.

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                                        • #40
                                          Your trainer is the one overstepping here. She seems to forget that she works for you. She is probably used to owners who want everything handled for them. I would just have a talk and let her know that you prefer to be in charge of your horse. If she doesn't like it find another trainer.

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