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I Need Relationship Advice! -Horse Related!! (long)

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  • #81
    A wise friend once said to me "money isn't everything, but it steadies the nerves."

    I wonder - if you simply reversed your situations - you were he, and he were in your shoes - would you feel the same way? Would he?

    Sometimes it is painful to try to dig out what your hidden assumptions really are, but the more you understand yourself, the better the chances of making a decision that is good for you.

    I have been the major breadwinner for our family for almost all of our relationship. Mr. Wicky has had major goals, and has worked very hard to achieve them, but at the cost of bringing in the "now" money - paying for mortgate, food... Maybe someday it will work out - possibly very soon . Possibly never. I have had my days - years, really - of incredible resentment that the pressure of day to day income is on ME, and have felt totally unappreciated for that, and other reasons. Unfortunately, Mr. Wicky is not really able to acknowledge that he isn't contributing today's income. And this pressure on us has had significant ramifications on other aspects of our relationship.

    I don't want this to be a discussion of my issues - just hoping that you two can discuss the future and the "what ifs" now, before they become real problems. I wish I had.

    Comment


    • #82
      My opinion (i'm most definitely not married, so take it for what its worth) is that one can find money just about anywhere. Good men are a lot harder to find, especially ones who are caring, affectionate, and support you emotionally. I would go for the guy, and let the money come later.
      Somewhere in the world, Jason Miraz is Goodling himself and wondering why "the chronicle of the horse" is a top hit. CaitlinAndTheBay

      Comment


      • #83
        My Alter - I just read your original post - the last paragraph says it all - you are VERY conflicted (I guess you know that!). Don't get engaged until you need no reassurances that he's the right guy for you - financial situation included! As others have said, I think you are smart for being honest with yourself and asking these questions now, rather than after you're married. I also do understand everyone who says "He's a catch, don't let him go!" I feel like I have a "catch" - yet he earns very little $ and I doubt he will EVER be able to support my horse habit - so I just plan on doing that myself. I joke about wanting a rich man (esp. now that I'm horse shopping!), but the truth is I need no reassurances that my boyfriend is the one for me.

        BUT - don't let others saying "keep him, keep him!" cloud your judgement, and what you know about yourself.

        Again, good for you for trying to figure this stuff out now.

        good luck!

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        • #84
          This isn't meant to sound mean:

          He's actually not supposed to provide for you. As a woman, you should be able to stand on your own two feet financially before you ever get married. If I were a man, I wouldn't want to marry a woman who couldn't take care of herself. What if the guy gets mowed over? You need to be able to take care of yourself, period.

          Can't remember the name of the book but it's point was that women are stupid and think that they are supposed to wait for some knight in shining armour to come and take care of them, all the while, not thinking that they really need to move on and make their own financial way in life.

          As it stands right now, my man could walk out on me today. I could still pay my own rent and afford to keep a horse, buy clothes for myself, take a vacation, eat out regularly...you get the picture.

          Do yourself a favor and be on your own two feet before you marry anyone. Whether he has money or not. Since money is the number one argument between couples, you don't want to be a financial burden on your man.

          "If you have the time, spend it. If you have a hand, lend it. If you have the money, give it. If you have a heart, share it." by me

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          • #85
            OK, I just read thru this entire thread. My Alter, go back and read Janet's, KateDB's, and Ride'emVA's posts. I think they contain the most sound wisdom.

            To me, the two things that stuck out to me in your original post were:
            "We haven't been "living together," but I spend most nights at his house" .. and ..
            "Right now, he pays for me whenever we go out, and even offers to pay for my gas when I drive the 30 minutes to come see him."

            Its interesting to me that a few people focused on the "he offers to pay" and ignored the part about you always going over to HIS place.

            This is a common thing that I see women doing ALL THE TIME. Why is it always US who go to them? Why is everything taking place at his house? Even if there is a reasonable explanation (I have roommates he doesn't) don't go down this road, Alter. It sets up expectations on his part that you'll always be the one "going to him." Its my current pet peeve ;-) I'm in a long term relationship and when I stopped spending every single weekend at his house it was a real issue. Funny, but he couldn't understand why I would want to spend some time at my own house, and expect him to come to me for a change. Hmm. Made me rethink things a bit.

            Now, you should pay attention to the fact that you have red flags about this. Those flags should tell you to not go ahead with the marriage. Doesn't mean you have to break up. But I do agree with the posters that said "be on your own for awhile" before going into a marraige. You'll be surprised at just how much changing you'll be doing over the next 5 years. There's no reason for you not to have a lovely relationship with this person while you both are getting yourselves established. Run AWAY from anyone who says "you have to marry me now or I'll go away". You are young. Wait.

            And to all those women saying "there's no good guys so grab one when you find one" I say "phhhhhhtttttttt". Don't be desparate. I'm still finding 'good guys' out there and I'm pushing 50. And besides, what you define as 'good' changes as time goes by.

            I'll even say that I don't think Alter is a 'spoiled brat' because true spoiled brats think they are automatically entitled, and are unaware of anyone or anything living 'beneath' their social strata. They have no compassion nor awaremess of the realities of life. My Alter is taking a good long look at some choices she's about to make and IMO that's a healthy and honest thing to do.

            Comment


            • #86
              I think you should try to tap into the HLS alumni network and talk to some of the women who have graduated from there about their life experiences. It may be very different than how you envision what your life will be like. I am sure there are people who will talk to you about it. I have a girlfriend who finished there in the late 80s. If you want I can put you in touch with her.

              I can tell you that if you go out and work in a hard core career as a lawyer in one of the major firms you aren't going to have much if any time to ride. Then once you have kids it will be harder. And then you will probably go off the partner track and your income will fall, etc, etc.

              To me your questioning makes me wonder if you two have enough similarity of interest to hold things together over the long haul. I don't know. I know I didn't marry someone who went to HBS with me but pretty soon after he went to Sloan. Our shared interest in our similar careers and our shared understanding of the demands of our careers have helped us weather alot of ups and downs. Many of my female classmates married guys in our class and I can see that having that mutual understanding about careers is very important in holding together a marriage.

              I couldn't bring myself to marry a fellow HBSer because I know myself well enough that I would have been very competitive with him. Even now I find myself doing that with my husband but I also get to share in the reward of his success and him in mine.

              Marriage is a partnership and you need to be very thoughtful about who that partner is. If I had married every guy who I thought I was in love with -- I would have been divorced many times by now. I married someone with whom I could build a reasonably acceptable life and have fun with. And I can tell you that in the end the fun is a lot more important than the libido or sparks in the beginning.

              Comment


              • #87
                Thank you for all of your advice. In order to clear something up, I want to say that I'm confident that I'll be able to support myself after school. I haven't just been sitting around waiting for a rich man to marry so that I don't have to do anything. I think I've worked very hard to make sure that I'll be able to support myself in the future.

                I guess I've always pictured a life full of luxuries. Now I'm wondering if being able to buy a Butet on impulse is worth losing a great guy, you know? And he is a great guy. He wants so much to marry me, but he understands that I need to wait. I just don't want him to get frustrated and think that I don't love him enough to marry him without knowing what his future income will be. The thing is, if he made $500,000/yr., I'd have married him yesterday.

                Comment


                • #88
                  <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by My Alter:
                  Thank you for all of your advice. In order to clear something up, I want to say that I'm confident that I'll be able to support myself after school. I haven't just been sitting around waiting for a rich man to marry so that I don't have to do anything. I think I've worked very hard to make sure that I'll be able to support myself in the future.

                  I guess I've always pictured a life full of luxuries. Now I'm wondering if being able to buy a Butet on impulse is worth losing a great guy, you know? And he is a great guy. He wants so much to marry me, but he understands that I need to wait. I just don't want him to get frustrated and think that I don't love him enough to marry him without knowing what his future income will be. The thing is, if he made $500,000/yr., I'd have married him yesterday. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                  At least you are honest
                  Don't we all dream of luxuries, then life happens...maybe you need to look into the principles of ZEN.
                  All a person really needs is food for sustinence, clothes (no namebrand ) to cover your body, and enough room to lay down and fold your arm under your head to sleep. Anything beyond that is luxury! I learned that from a man you moved to a new job in a new city, and he managed to haul his whole belongings in a econo-compact car! One trip!

                  Comment


                  • #89
                    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ailis36:
                    This thread is making it abundantly clear why there is a 50% divorce rate...very sad <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                    i've been reading through and seeing how its developed, i was just thinking the exact same thing

                    Comment


                    • #90
                      I think most research shows that finances are the number one source of conflict in a marriage.

                      Comment


                      • #91
                        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by My Alter:
                        I think I've worked very hard to make sure that I'll be able to support myself in the future.
                        ...I just don't want him to get frustrated and think that I don't love him enough...if he made $500,000/yr., I'd have married him yesterday. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                        Well, there it is so clearly put...and my prior posts label of these actions stands with this simple declaration:

                        I can but don't want to work, I don't love him but at $500K, he'd be OK...we're not arguing the act, only the price of admission. Very pathetic, he really deserves better than a gold-digger.
                        "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"

                        Comment


                        • #92
                          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by My Alter:
                          if he made $500,000/yr., I'd have married him yesterday. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                          $500k/year!? LOL! Those sure are some high expectations for a spouse!

                          What salary does he expect of you?

                          Comment


                          • #93
                            Oh come on, she's not a gold-digger. Just a normal, realistic person...

                            Comment


                            • #94
                              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by My Alter:
                              Thank you for all of your advice. In order to clear something up, I want to say that I'm confident that I'll be able to support myself after school. I haven't just been sitting around waiting for a rich man to marry so that I don't have to do anything. I think I've worked very hard to make sure that I'll be able to support myself in the future.

                              I guess I've always pictured a life full of luxuries. Now I'm wondering if being able to buy a Butet on impulse is worth losing a great guy, you know? And he is a great guy. He wants so much to marry me, but he understands that I need to wait. I just don't want him to get frustrated and think that I don't love him enough to marry him without knowing what his future income will be. The thing is, if he made $500,000/yr., I'd have married him yesterday. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Am I the only one who sees an inherent contradiction here?
                              Janet

                              chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                              Comment


                              • #95
                                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> And to all those women saying "there's no good guys so grab one when you find one" I say "phhhhhhtttttttt". Don't be desparate. I'm still finding 'good guys' out there and I'm pushing 50. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yep. I am 50. I met my husband a few weeks after my 40th birthday. Life really DOES "begin at 40".
                                Janet

                                chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                                Comment


                                • #96
                                  <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Anyplace Farm:
                                  This isn't meant to sound mean:

                                  He's actually not supposed to provide for you. As a woman, you should be able to stand on your own two feet financially before you ever get married. If I were a man, I wouldn't want to marry a woman who couldn't take care of herself. What if the guy gets mowed over? You need to be able to take care of yourself, period.

                                  As it stands right now, my man could walk out on me today. I could still pay my own rent and afford to keep a horse, buy clothes for myself, take a vacation, eat out regularly...you get the picture.

                                  Do yourself a favor and be on your own two feet before you marry anyone. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yep. And, as much to the point, when I was living with a man who was a multimillionaire, and it became obvious that it wasn't working (OK, I am a slow learner, it took me 10 years), _I_ was able to walk out without financial worries.
                                  Janet

                                  chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                                  Comment


                                  • #97
                                    I own a house with the man that I love. We keep separate bank accounts. It just never dawns on me that if I want something, I have to run it through him first because we manage our own money. So, if I want to spend $3K on an Antares in FL this year, I will. It's my money. I take care of myself.

                                    I just think OP would be much happier not worrying about how much money the boyfriend makes - find her own way (yes, he should wait) and then she answers to no one but herself. Independence is bliss.

                                    My point is, if he is a good man, if he has aspirations, if you love him and he loves you, groovy. But don't wait for him to make money. Make your own. He needs to make his own too. You shouldn't support him. He shouldn't have to support you. When you move in together, you should be able to pay living expenses 50-50 and all the other crap you want to do should come out of your own pocket.

                                    Look, if I can take care of myself on a secretary's salary, OP will do just fine w/her education.

                                    "If you have the time, spend it. If you have a hand, lend it. If you have the money, give it. If you have a heart, share it." by me

                                    Comment


                                    • #98
                                      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Oh come on, she's not a gold-digger. Just a normal, realistic person... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                      While I am not of the opinion that she is a gold-digger, that is not "realistic" in any sense. I also do not find it particularly "normal" to say one wants a spouse with a 500k income or they will hesitate at marrying him.
                                      <><

                                      Comment


                                      • #99
                                        I don't think it is wrong to consider a potential spouse's capability for earning or their financial status. When you are planning a family, you have to take these things into account for your (future) children's sake. And I haven't heard the OP say she wants him to support her. She does expect to contribute. She does want a certain lifestyle, though. It sounds a bit as though that is more important than the actual guy involved which is kind of sad.

                                        The other thing to consider is how this guy will fit into her family. I don't mean that her family wouldn't accept him. I mean how will he feel about her family's wealth? Mr. nhwr's family and mine are of different financial backgrounds. It did cause some tension and took some adjusting, initially.

                                        One thing to remember though;

                                        Don't feel bad if you marry for money. You'll earn it
                                        See those flying monkeys? They work for me.

                                        Comment


                                        • I think you've actually summed up your (literal) bottom line:

                                          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The thing is, if he made $500,000/yr., I'd have married him yesterday. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                          I think you should move on, start dating someone wealthy, who may or may not go bankrupt, who may or may not leave you for another woman in 20 years, or because you got fat post-partum; who may or may not wake up one day and tell you that he may never have loved you in the first place.

                                          Surely, if horse sports has taught you anything it's that there are no guarantees in life.

                                          I find it very odd that, with your own income potential approaching 500K, as a prospective grad of HLS, you'd be so emotionally stumped by his lack of wealth.

                                          Comment

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