• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

starting new business - need some ideas

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • starting new business - need some ideas

    After numerous years of working for other people and other barns, we have decided to take the leap and go out on our own. We would be schooling horse and/or riders in the area of dressage or over fences. Our specialty will be starting or working with young sport horses. We would like your suggestions for examples of training contracts and rider releases that you currently use. What company would you recommend for instructor and trainer insurance? Do you have any suggestions as to a person who could do a website? This starting out on you own thing is a lot of work! Thanks for your help.

    Oh - another thought - we are going to call the new business Pheasant Run Farm. I have not one artistic gene in my body. What are your thoughts and ideas as to colors and a logo - as in things that would work for stall drapes and the like?
  • Original Poster

    #2
    Starting a new business - would like your help

    After numerous years of working for other people and other barns, we have decided to take the leap and go out on our own. We would be schooling horse and/or riders in the area of dressage or over fences. Our specialty will be starting or working with young sport horses. We would like your suggestions for examples of training contracts and rider releases that you currently use. What company would you recommend for instructor and trainer insurance? Do you have any suggestions as to a person who could do a website? This starting out on you own thing is a lot of work! Thanks for your help.

    Oh - another thought - we are going to call the new business Pheasant Run Farm. I have not one artistic gene in my body. What are your thoughts and ideas as to colors and a logo - as in things that would work for stall drapes and the like?

    Comment


    • #3
      OK - some VERY quick thoughts.... get a picture of a pheasant and try to pull the colors into something you like. Pheasants DO run - logo maybe 3-4 pheasants running - or a row running and a row taking flight as a jump with a very eq-proper rider going over them?

      And - I have a suggestion for where you can get your drapes, etc. made reasonably -
      please PM me. Not my business, but a friend's - in PA. - - quality material, quality work - and REASONABLE!!

      Carol
      www.ayliprod.com
      Equine Photography in the Northeast

      Comment


      • #4
        This RELEASE of LIABILITY is made and entered into on this ____________________ day of _____________ , 20 ________, by and between _______________________________________, hereinafter designated MANAGER and __________________________________________ hereinafter designated RIDER, and if Rider is a minor, Rider’s parent or guardian, __________________________. In return for the use, today and on all future dates of the property, facilities and services of the Manager, the Rider, his heirs, assigns, and legal representatives, hereby expressly agree to the following:

        It is the responsibility of the Rider to carry full and complete insurance coverage on his horse, personal property and himself.

        Rider agrees to assume ANY AND ALL RISKS INVOLVED IN OR ARISING FROM THE RIDER’S USE OF OR PRESENCE UPON MANAGER’S PROPERTY AND FACILITIES including, without limitation but not limited to, the risks of death, bodily injury, property damage, falls, kicks, bites, collisions with vehicles, horses or stationary objects, fire or explosion, the unavailability of emergency medical care, or the negligence or deliberate act of another person.

        Rider agrees to hold Manager and all of its successors, assigns, subsidiaries, affiliates, officers, directors, employees and agents completely harmless and not liable and release them from all liability whatsoever and AGREES NOT TO SUE them on account of or in connection with any claims, causes of action, injuries, damages, cost or expenses arising out of Rider’s use of or presence upon Manager’s property and facilities, including without limitation, those based on death, bodily injury, property damage, including consequential damages, except if the damages are caused by the direct, willful and wanton negligence of the Manager.

        Rider agrees to waive the protection afforded by any statute or law in any jurisdiction.

        Rider agrees to indemnify and defend Manager against, and hold it harmless from, any and all claims, causes of action, damages, judgements, costs or expenses, including attorney’s fees, which in any way arise from the Rider’s use of or presence upon the Manager’s property and facilities.

        Rider agrees to abide by all of Manager’s rules and regulations.

        If Rider is using his horse, the horse shall be free from infection, contagious or transmissible disease. Manager reserves the right to refuse horse if not in proper health or is deemed dangerous or undesirable.

        This contract is non-assignable and non-transferable and is made and entered into the State of ____________________________, and shall be enforced and interpreted under the laws of this state. Should any clause be in conflict with State Law, then that clause is null and void. When the Manager and Rider and Rider’s parent or guardian, if Rider is a minor, sign this contract, it will then be binding on both parties, subject to the above terms and conditions.

        9. If rider is under age and rides on premises without legal guardian than legal guardian must sign this waiver to remove all responsiblility from Manger/owner of property from any injuries or harm done to minor with his/her horse or any other horse on premises. The signing of this waiver allows minor to ride his/her own horse without supervision and holds property owners harmless in any injury that may occur on or off their horse or by another horse. Legal guardian is responsible for any damage be it vandalism or not, theif or injury of other animals while minor is on premises unsupervised.

        _____________________________________ _____________________________________
        Manager’s Signature Rider’s Signature

        _____________________________________ ______________________________________
        Rider’s Address/Phone Number Rider’s Parent or Guardian (If Rider is a minor.)




        A good rider release form.
        Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole

        Comment


        • #5
          A logo could maybe be

          A jump with a banner under it with a pheasant on it flying and a horse jumping the jump. A pheasant makes me think Burgurndy, don't know why.
          Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole

          Comment


          • #6
            Pheasants, for some reason, make me think orange and brown. Or burgundy and brown. Or brown and tan. But definitely brown

            Best of luck in your new business - it's a hard time right now to be doing this (in the economic sense)...hopefully you're really committed to seeing it through!

            Re: Insurance - check out www.equisure.com
            Please don't sabotash my conchess.

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              Going out on our own - need some ideas

              We realize that the timing (economy) may not be the best but due to recent events, we are ready to take the leap. After numerous years of working for other people and other barns, we have decided to go out on our own. We would be schooling horses and/or riders in the area of dressage or over fences. Our specialty will be starting or working with young sport horses. We would like your suggestions for examples of the training contracts and rider releases that you currently use.

              What company would you recommend for instructor and trainer insurance? Do you have any suggestions as to a person who could do a website? This starting out on you own thing is a lot of work! Thanks for your help.

              Oh - another thought - we are going to call the new business Pheasant Run Farm. I have not one artistic gene in my body. What are your thoughts and ideas as to colors and a logo - as in things that would work for stall drapes and the like?

              Comment


              • #8
                well, first go check pheasantrunfarm.com to see if someone has that name already. then get started on your business plan. good luck!

                Comment


                • #9
                  I would take the logo and colors from the pheasant. Here are some photos which provide some ideas that might spark a thought of what might work. Maybe someone could do some art for you.

                  http://search.live.com/images/result...tos&form=IIRE0#

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Good luck.

                    I would have a well thought out business plan in place, including cash flow analysis and worst case scenario laid out. This is a very difficult climate, businesses are suffering and people are not spending like they once were. I think we are in this for a few years. Batten down the hatches!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'd keep the logo very simple. Maybe just a pheasant. Here are a few that are quite nice:

                      http://www.flahertycollins.com/image...asant_logo.jpg

                      http://www.grounddevelopment.com/PheasantLogo.gif

                      http://www.golfvancouverisland.ca/im..._glen_logo.jpg

                      http://www.capecodchefs.com/clients/.../rest_logo.gif

                      http://www.glchomes.com/Images/Logo_Pheasant_Run.jpg

                      A lot of people really overdo it when it comes to logos, and it makes your life a LOT more difficult in the long run. I should know... I'm a graphic designer

                      Horses jumping pheasants, or pheasants on jumps, wouldn't do it for me personally - WAY too much going on. How are you going to elegantly embroider that into a polo shirt?
                      ---
                      They're small hearts.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Trixie's right - KISS -I thought of that after I posted. But I do think you need the horse on it somehow. Maybe something like the first image as a panel with the horse going over it?
                        www.ayliprod.com
                        Equine Photography in the Northeast

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          We merged the multiple threads on this topic into one here in Off Course to keep the info together and avoid redundancy. We also removed one post in order to comply with the board's no-advertising policy.

                          Thanks and good luck!
                          Mod 1

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            http://www.goldenventuregraphics.com/

                            Golden Venture is operated by Tawna who does not post here very often anymore. I think she may post under a different screen name now. Anyway, the people I know who have used her have been pleased & she does logo design as well as websites.

                            www.beashowoff.com

                            Sylvia (Sly of Sly Designs a.k.a. "Be a Show Off") is really talented & makes stall drapes as well as many other things such as unique & beautiful tack boxes. I have met her - very nice woman who might do logos and/or web design as well (don't remember). I think both of these women could be helpful to you.

                            I have read your post & know what you specifically requested, but I am wondering if you can provide any more information or whether you will need other assistance. (From some of the answers given, others are thinking along these lines, too.)

                            Will you be working out of a farm you own (or are buying) or renting a farm or going to teach at the horse owner's farm?

                            Do you need to borrow money? Do you need a business plan? (Yes, you need a business plan for many reasons, but it might be a little less formal if you are not using the business plan as part of a loan application.) Or do you have a business plan already? Does it need updating?

                            For insurance, may I suggest

                            www.goetzinsurors.com

                            There is a nice book of legal contracts related to horse businesses titled "Legal Forms, Contracts & Advice for Horse Owners" by Sue Ellen Marder, LLM & Judith B Oakes, JD. I would highly recommend you buy that book or something similar. You used to be able to buy a software version which might be better than a hard copy. It is published by Breakthrough Press & I bought mine from

                            www.booksonhorses.com

                            I wish you all the best. Personally, if you haven't already, I would talk with a tax adviser (CPA, Enrolled Agent, better yet, someone who is both) AND an attorney & establish an entity such as an LLC or an S-Corporation. As long as you clearly keep business & personal separate, a corporation will provide you some protection against being sued personally. You STILL need insurance and releases and all the other protections you can get. You need to learn about the equine liability laws of your state & comply with them, too. Does your state have a state horse council? Might be a good first step to join the horse council.

                            Yes, hard work & lots to think about!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hint: be sure to check your state's equestrian activities laws. For example, Oregon legislation about 15 years ago was changed to require the posting of a large, easily readable sign on premises with equestrian activities, using specific language disclaimers as spelled out in the statute. I think several groups in Oregon carried these inexpensive but oh-so-necessary signs as fundraisers. Some other states may require similar posted disclaimers.

                              Remember that a waiver or release is usually only worth the paper it is printed on. You need to have "the frank discussion" with the parents/children/owners/students - that is, your clients. That frank discussion should cover the very real potential for accidents and expenses and shouldn't be conducted without two of you present (um, that would be an extra witness in this litigious society if the worst happened). Full disclosure is the name of the game. You can have a waiver signed and on file and still be the first in your area to have a jury decide it's going to help send a case up the litigation ladder to help write new case law. So you should try to figure out how to help people understand the risks of whatever equestrian pursuit they are paying for your help with - hopefully without scaring them completely out of the idea!

                              You might want to consider the following suggestions, as well. Have your legal practitioner provide you with the "safe harbor" provisions of the Tax Code which describe in detail just exactly what you have to do to be A Real Business. And perhaps most important of those provisions is having separate business accounting - not commingling business $$ with your personal accounting, can be as simple as having separate checking accounts or as complex as a full business accounting system; having a well-thought-out written business plan which is updated regularly to reflect changes in your market area; and retaining financial and legal experts to assist in the launching and maintenance of your business. The IRS gives very strong attention to horse businesses because there historically has been so much abuse of the "hobby loss" situation -- to help prevent coming under the dreaded "red flag" use a "financial expert" who would be an accountant and maybe a tax planner who has some equestrian experience so you don't have to pay them for the privilege of increasing their knowledge (because they already know what a farrier is (for example) or why you had to pay extra for some really really good hay or what it really means to pay for advertising in the non-traditional media). The legal expert is, usually, an attorney who can assist you with deciding whether you need to be a corporation, a limited liability company, partnership, joint venture, sole proprietorship, etc., and can help you set up whatever business entity you choose to help maximize your potential of surviving as an actual business while also protecting your personal assets from liability. Your state's bar association can usually refer you to attorneys who practice agricultural law, and some equine business legal specialists even advertise online and in publications - for example, there is an equine tax specialist attorney in Southern California.

                              There is a desperate need for really capable and knowledgeable horsemen/horsewomen teaching and coaching and training - far too many out there who know absolutely nothing and are trying to make a buck for passing along the nothingness. The more knowledgeable people there are in the business, the better for the horses (oh, yeah, and the people too)!

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                thanks!

                                Wow! Thank you so much to the people who have taken the time to share their ideas and advice. The suggestions for the logos are great. The information regarding setting up the waivers, the examples of the forms, and the detailed financial suggestions are greatly appreciated. As many of you have noted, it is a difficult economic time to be venturing out on our own. I feel that we have a quality service (the correct starting of young sport horses) to offer to our area. With your ideas and suggestions, we are well on our way to what I hope will be a very successful venture.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  try www.elance.com for a low cost custom logo. If this is something you wish to do professionally for a matter of years, it is beyond worth it to plunk down a little money up front to have a logo that says "LOOK at us, WE are PROFESSIONAL".
                                  my horse trailer was stolen from kentucky horse park. Seen it?

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by CurlyLindsay View Post
                                    try www.elance.com for a low cost custom logo. If this is something you wish to do professionally for a matter of years, it is beyond worth it to plunk down a little money up front to have a logo that says "LOOK at us, WE are PROFESSIONAL".
                                    Agreed, hire an artist to do your logo. Compared with the other costs of starting the business, it will be minimal- and believe me it will be worth it!

                                    If you go on e-lance you can ask for samples of people's work and get someone whose style works with yours.

                                    Also hire a professional to do your website. It is amazing how much a great website adds to your professional flair, especially if you plan to sell horses at all.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      The correct starting of young sporthorses seems to be a service that many breeders are in need of. You may have already done this, but be sure to get the word out to them, and maybe talk in detail to as many as possible about what they would expect and for what price so you have that info in your biz plan.

                                      Even if the breeders don't send you horses directly, you want to be on their list so that when their buyers are looking for someone to start the youngster they bought from the breeder, your name comes up. You may wish to give certain breeders a discount on the first horse they send you, so that you can demonstrate the quality of your service to them. Make it clear that's an incentive (you don't want to stick with the discount when they come back.)

                                      Good luck! Exciting thing to do!
                                      Ring the bells that still can ring
                                      Forget your perfect offering
                                      There is a crack in everything
                                      That's how the light gets in.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I second Evalee's advise--find good professionals, tax and otherwise, to advise you from before you start the business, and you'll save yourself a lot of headaches down the road. There are several details that are minor but can trip you up later--for example, setting yourself up as an LLC can be a lifesaver if you run into issues later. Find an attorney and a tax advisor that you like and can work with. Pay them for an hour of consulting before you do anything, you'll get more than your money's worth. Even for graphic design and other work, find a professional and do it right. If you're on a limited budget, find a student or a professional who's just starting out. I see many many horse businesses fail because the owners don't recognize that their expertise is in horses, not business management. You have a valuable skill, and an idea that can certainly be a successful business, but recognize that you bring the ability to train horses to this business, and that you may need to find others with complementary skills to help the business. For example, if you've never written a business plan, enlist some help, so that you don't miss anything. Everyone has their own areas of expertise, and I think it's best to capitalize on the ones we have and contract out the ones we don't.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X