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Would you feel comfortable letting your child take a lesson with a gay trainer?

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  • #201
    houndsRus: you make a lot of assumption about how I approach the Bible. I actually used to be a liberal.

    I don't really understand why one or two statements about why my opinion is my opinion should lead to such a religious debate. I wasn't prostelitizing (sp?) anyone. The OP just asked for opinions so I offered one. I have one that is different from the majority here on religion and relationships with God. (If you read the posts,you will see that I actually said that I would allow my children to ride with her, provided that she was professional and a good teacher)

    It's funny. You all are saying to the OP you shouldn't have to justify yourself to anyone. But anyone who disagrees with the majority on the board here, has to justify or defend and explain themself. At least that is the way that I am feeling.

    But since you, houndsRus have claimed that only two passages in the Bible regarding homosexuality are in the Torah, the Law, that was given only as a shadow of things to come, ....I will enlighten you to a very clear passage that Paul wrote about the degradation of society and the homosexuality that accompanied it. Romans Chapter 1 Verses 18 to 32. But I guess Paul wouldn't know agape love if it hit him in the face. (Oh wait, it did. I think that he was beaten more than once and left for dead at least once.) If anyone wants the text quoted printed out for them please let me know, I would be happy to do so. There are other places, but again this is not the religion forum, but hey, if you all want to "meet" somewhere we can do that.

    QUOTE Agape #26 in Strongs: as defined by Spiros Zodhiates, Th.D.: love, a word not found in Class. GR. but only in revealed religion. Translated "charity" meaning benevolent love. Its benevolence, however, is not shown by doing what the person loved desires, but what the one who loves deems as needed by the one loved; e.g. "For God so loved (egapesen) the world...that He gave..." What did He give? Not what man wanted, but what man needed as God perceived his need. His Son to bring forgiveness to man. God's love for man is God doing what He thinks best for man and not what he desires. It is God's willful direction toward man. But for man to show love to God, he must first appropriate God's agape, for only God has such an unselfish love. Contr. philia 5373 friendship based on having common interests. END QUOTE

    This is why, while I wish that I could say that I thought that it was okay or sure it's just trendy no problem, I can't or won't. I trust what was written down and preserved for me through the ages about what God thinks about different issues. Commandments that Jesus gave on earth: Love the Lord your God with all your heart soul and mind, the second is like it love your neighbor as yourself and the command given in John 13:34 Love one another as I have loved you. The first two are the ones that Jesus said were most important. I actually do care about and agape the people around me. Sometimes it isn't the popular thing to do.

    BTW: Old testament cross breeding of animals was not like warmblood breeding, it was like mules or sheep/goats. If you study carefully enough, if you are Torah observant, breeding of horses is forbidden too. Luckily, I live under the law of grace spoken of in Galatians

    Now go agape one another
    "I reject your reality and substitute my own" Adam Savage--Mythbusters
    <><

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    • #202
      I don't have kids, but I think I would look for the same aspects in a trainer for myself as I would my kids.
      skills/talents both on horse and with teaching, the education is what your paying for.
      Since a trainer often is looked up upon, I want it to be someone who sets a good example(hard working, ethical, with a good attitude).
      If you have all these things, I wouldn't hesitate one moment to send my kids(if I had them ) to you. You should be professional, and I don't think your personal preferences would be discussed in a professinal setting. Don't take being a lesbian as a bad thing, turn it into something good and teach your future students to have a open mind not only when on a horse but on the ground as well.
      Best of luck.

      Comment

      • #203
        I had a lesbian trainer who was great until she told everyone she was also a Wiccan and began putting hexes on people/horses she was having problems with. The Witch thing creeped me out, but I might have left if she was a vocal Republican too.

        Comment

        • #204
          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> The Bible is what our Constitution is based upon. It doesn't matter whether or not you agree with it...it's just HISTORICAL fact. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

          Not mine, thank mother earth I'm Canadian. (just a note, I LOVE American's, but wouldn't want my consitiution based on organized religion).Have to agree with Jer whole-heartedly. IMHO the bible is pure fiction, has no say in how we live our lives sexually or otherwise.
          \"Throw your heart over the fence and your horse will follow\"

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          • #205
            *wwwwwwwwwwwhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr*

            What's that sound? Why it's just Sparkie now DJH backpedaling as fast as she can in a futile attempt to seem reasonable and intelligent in her close minded attitudes. WTF ever. Knock yourself out with your bible woman and pop another psychopharmaceutical.

            clearlyanalter, you're a child of the universe no less than the trees and the stars or the Sparkies of the world who just can't help themselves. Just whatever you do, don't move to Buda, Texas.

            Comment

            • #206
              pleasureville, knock it off. If you can't participate in the discussion in a constructive way, don't participate.

              Comment

              • #207
                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">JER, that quote makes you look foolish and antagonistic. The Bible is what our Constitution is based upon. It doesn't matter whether or not you agree with it...it's just HISTORICAL fact. There are other religions that denounce homosexuality as a way of life. It's clear you do not have tolorance for Christians or their basis of belief, the Bible. Yet...you would have have me be tolorant of your views? If you must be hateful, so be it...but please do not expect me to be "tolorant" of YOUR beliefs.
                </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                You're wrong about the US Constitution. If you're looking for its antecedents, look in the direction of the English common law and the Magna Carta. Many of the US Constitution's 'framers' -- Madison, Franklin, Jefferson -- were trying hard to keep religion out of government.

                As for me, I'm proud to say I'm intolerant of ignorance. I have no tolerance for people who think the Bible is fact and therefore advocate a literal translation. Metaphor is fine with me but don't get me started on the hooey contained in those pages.

                Back to the topic -- my brother is gay as are a number of my relatives and friends. I grew up believing that sexual orientation was a non-issue and my family shares my shock and sadness in the current fervor for anti-gay-marriage initiatives. People who oppose gay marriage really don't need to worry about gay marriages because they're never going to be invited to one.

                Comment

                • Original Poster
                  #208
                  JER: haha...i liked that last thing you said, it's true, people like that won't be invited to my wedding when I have one.

                  Im sorry this got off topic, but once again, i thank everyone for their replies and mostly support.

                  Comment

                  • #209
                    I've been reading a few more responses to this thread.

                    One thing I think that should be pointed out---heterosexual males have a worse reputation with....corrupting some youths more than any homosexual coach I've heard of(I mean, we all hear the gossip, but they ALL have to do with the males that are straight, married and fool around, right?) So, how is it that a parent wouldn't think twice about sending their child to tHAT barn?(I mean, I'm sure SOME would, but I'm just using this for arguments' sake)

                    Remember, homosexuality doesn't mean petiphilia! People who are attracted to the same sex doesn't mean they have a)no control and b) would be improper at the barn with their S.O. And, sorry, people can't be 'converted'. Homosexuality isn't a religion or a cult.

                    I've known many homosexual coaches, open and both genders(gay and lesbian) and they were always very kind, knowledgeable and friendly. That's all that stood out to me! I just hated it when everyone would tell me 'you know, they are gay..." GRRRR.

                    WHY should that matter, and that's what I always said 'and?" or "So?" meaning, I DON'T CARE.

                    I KNOW many people out there don't.

                    Another point---school teachers don't have to state their sexual preference. Why should a riding coach?

                    Comment

                    • #210
                      I've got to admit I'm a bit biased. My best childhood memories were the summers I spent with my lesbian aunt and her partner in the mountains of NC. They came up every year from the Miami area, where my aunt was a guidance counselor in the Miami/Dade County school system, and her partner was a swim coach at a Catholic girls' school. Mind you, this was in the 60's - early 90's, spanning the era of Anita Bryant, et al. Neither could really afford to be "outed" in their professional life, so they simply never broached the subject in the work environment. Ever. They survived because they had each other, and an amazing network of friends. A number of those same friends bought land in the same area of the NC mountains as my aunt and her partner, and spent their summer vacations there as well. These women were (most are retired now) physicians, attorneys, horse breeders, university professors (one who is also an R hunter judge), professional pilots, small business owners, bankers, etc., etc. They were wonderful role models for me in my formative years, without exception. My aunt's relationship with her partner has outlasted the marriages of my own parents, and those of many of my friends; they've been together 45 years, and have remained monogamous the entire time.

                      Shoot, when my first marriage ended in violence (with my jaw broken), my aunt was the one who wired me money and sent me a plane ticket. My son was only 2-1/2, and I arrived at her door with him, his teddy and blanket, and the clothes on our backs. She helped me through the most difficult days of my life; and when I met the man who would become my second husband, she pronounced him, without hesitation, a "keeper." She was right!!!

                      Honestly, as a kid, I had no idea what lesbianism was. I never gave my aunt and her partner's relationship a second thought. Their life together was--and is--just the most natural thing in the world to me. They bicker like an old married couple!

                      The summer before my son's senior year of high school, he spent three months with my aunt and her partner traveling the country in a camper-van. He slept in a separate tent with their two dogs, an Italian Greyhound and a Miniature Pinscher. He had a blast, and it's still one of the highlights of his young life.

                      Sorry to ramble on and on here. I would strongly encourage the OP to find a supportive network of friends; I know it has helped my aunt and her partner through a myriad of life's challenges to have those solid, long-lasting friendships.

                      http://community.webshots.com/user/helenofnc
                      "We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give." - Churchill

                      Comment

                      • #211
                        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JER:
                        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">JER, that quote makes you look foolish and antagonistic. The Bible is what our Constitution is based upon. It doesn't matter whether or not you agree with it...it's just HISTORICAL fact. There are other religions that denounce homosexuality as a way of life. It's clear you do not have tolorance for Christians or their basis of belief, the Bible. Yet...you would have have me be tolorant of your views? If you must be hateful, so be it...but please do not expect me to be "tolorant" of YOUR beliefs.
                        </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                        You're wrong about the US Constitution. If you're looking for its antecedents, look in the direction of the English common law and the Magna Carta. Many of the US Constitution's 'framers' -- Madison, Franklin, Jefferson -- were trying hard to keep religion out of government.

                        As for me, I'm proud to say I'm intolerant of ignorance. I have no tolerance for people who think the Bible is fact and therefore advocate a literal translation. Metaphor is fine with me but don't get me started on the hooey contained in those pages.

                        Back to the topic -- my brother is gay as are a number of my relatives and friends. I grew up believing that sexual orientation was a non-issue and my family shares my shock and sadness in the current fervor for anti-gay-marriage initiatives. People who oppose gay marriage really don't need to worry about gay marriages because they're never going to be invited to one. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                        Once again . . . Right Freaking On!!!!, I don't know you, but I know we would be friends if we were to ever meet.
                        \"Throw your heart over the fence and your horse will follow\"

                        Comment

                        • #212
                          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Erin:
                          pleasureville, knock it off. If you can't participate in the discussion in a constructive way, don't participate. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                          Sorry Moderator. Next time I'll add a few bible verses to justify my homophobia and makes my prejudices seem justified by the word of god. I can't see where what I say is any more out of line than what Sparkie/DHJ and Trakhener have said and especially Trakhener. But I suppose you have given up chastising her and have chosen a greenie poster instead. Fine. Taking it on the chin. Agape everyone.

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                          • #213
                            I'm a lesbian trainer with a SO. I live with her and we have a farm; a little difficult to hide it to most people. Although some neighbors think we're either cousins or sisters (!) (we look nothing alike!!!!)
                            I tend not to open up to clients about my sexuality. I only had one ask out right if I was gay. She was just curious. I said yes and I continued talking to her matter-of-factly. Nothing has changed.
                            I introduce my SO as my "friend", not as my partner. However, since we live together, most people make the connection and realize "what" we are.
                            In other words, I don't hide but I don't flaunt. If your partner likes to come to the barn and watch, by all means let her but introduce her as a friend. Some people may get a vibe from you two, but most won't care. Some will call you fxxxxg lesbians and will leave but in my own experience, most will not care as long as you teach well.
                            If you act like it's nothing (and it isn't really), most people will behave the same way.

                            Hope my experience helps.

                            Comment

                            • #214
                              So true...
                              \"Throw your heart over the fence and your horse will follow\"

                              Comment

                              • #215
                                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by pleasureville:
                                Sorry Moderator. Next time I'll add a few bible verses to justify my homophobia and makes my prejudices seem justified by the word of god. I can't see where what I say is any more out of line than what Sparkie/DHJ and Trakhener have said and especially Trakhener. But I suppose you have given up chastising her and have chosen a greenie poster instead. Fine. Taking it on the chin. Agape everyone. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                Trakehner (who was a "he" last time I checked) didn't personally attack anyone participating in this discussion, nor did DJH. If you disagree with what they've said, go right ahead and say so. But if your only method of argument is to insult and demean, go do it elsewhere.

                                When people start criticizing the poster instead of the post, these threads rapidly spiral downward into catfights that the moderators then have to shut down. But hey, if you want to be responsible for the premature end to a good discussion, be my guest.

                                Comment

                                • #216
                                  <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You're wrong about the US Constitution. If you're looking for its antecedents, look in the direction of the English common law and the Magna Carta. Many of the US Constitution's 'framers' -- Madison, Franklin, Jefferson -- were trying hard to keep religion out of government.

                                  As for me, I'm proud to say I'm intolerant of ignorance. I have no tolerance for people who think the Bible is fact and therefore advocate a literal translation. Metaphor is fine with me but don't get me started on the hooey contained in those pages.

                                  Back to the topic -- my brother is gay as are a number of my relatives and friends. I grew up believing that sexual orientation was a non-issue and my family shares my shock and sadness in the current fervor for anti-gay-marriage initiatives. People who oppose gay marriage really don't need to worry about gay marriages because they're never going to be invited to one. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
                                  I have been lurking on this thread for a little while now, I was going to post but JER, you said exactly what I was thinking.

                                  Comment

                                  • #217
                                    Actually, the idea of the modern democracy and Christianity are inexorably linked. It was only during the Renaisance, the age of reason, that the idea that each man was equal in the eyes of God because of his soul became accepted. This idea extended to the concept that all men were created equal and free. Democracy (and our republic) flowed from this. This is a major difference between Christianity and other religions (like Islam). So though the US constitution may not be based directly on the Bible, it is firmly rooted in Christianity.

                                    The thing that is interesting to me about discussions like this is that I am not a particularly religous person but even I know the new testament is all about love for your fellow man and tolerance. It certainly doesn't promote homosexuality, but you have to dig deep into some of the more arcane books of the old testament to find condemnation of homosexuality. I think it right in there with directives about how women must be isolated when they are menstruating because they are contaminated.

                                    I think a man who embraced lepers and counted a whore as one of his closest confidants would have no problem accepting a lesbian horse trainer
                                    See those flying monkeys? They work for me.

                                    Comment

                                    • #218
                                      I didn't have the strength to read all 11 pages. Only by having every lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgendered American out and proud will people understand that we deserve equal rights.
                                      A man must love a thing very much if he not only practices it without any hope of fame or money, but even practices it without any hope of doing it well.--G. K. Chesterton

                                      Comment

                                      • #219
                                        Wouldn't have my child ride with a homophobe...never ever, never never.

                                        Comment

                                        • #220
                                          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Just whatever you do, don't move to Buda, Texas. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


                                          Actually, come move to Buda, you would be quite welcome here. Austin's just north of here and the theme is "Keep Austin Weird" which sounds like an insult, but it isn't. We actually celebrate the diversity of people that exist. And we want it to stay that way. Like I said earlier, I have two separate, but related couple that live on my block and they are wonderful neighbors. I could introduce you to my farrier who is a kind and very interesting woman and her partner.

                                          Too bad you all don't really know who I am or where I've traveled in my life. Maybe you wouldn't be so judgemental of my beliefs either.
                                          "I reject your reality and substitute my own" Adam Savage--Mythbusters
                                          <><

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