• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

The Great Trailer loading drama....

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • The Great Trailer loading drama....

    So.... you are at a show or a clinic or some other sort of event. You walk by and you see a couple of folks trying to load a horse that doesn't want to load.

    Do you say something to them, and when? What things have to happen in order for you to decide to say something to the people involved? Does a certain amount of time have to go by? A certain amount of sweat on the horse? A certain behavior maybe horse rears, kicks or strikes out?

    Or do you leave a situation totally alone unless the situation looks really very bad? Very over the line. Very not okay.

    GM was just wrestling with a horse in the USET rotunda a few weeks ago. If anyone else had done that they would be shot. Does who you are matter more than what you do?

    Personally, I've been on both sides of the fence plenty of times with this situation. Over time I've learned more about loading, so over time I've learned more about how to make things work out well. Including when to say no to someone who wants me to help out. Also when to shut up if I see someone else who is having loading problems.

    If the situation is so out of hand that I think I would think to 'stick my nose in' even if it were GM I was watching wrestle with an unwilling horse, then I know things are bad.

    So talk to me about dealing with the difficult situation of seeing someone else doing something with a horse that you might find distressing/object to/feel concerned about.

    Could be trailer loading. Maybe 2 people trying to wrestle a horse to clip it's ears or pull it's mane. Etc.
    "Friend" me !

    http://www.facebook.com/isabeau.solace

  • #2
    I'd probably ask if they wanted a hand. If they said "no" I'd walk away.

    Comment


    • #3
      I've often asked people if they'd like some help (spoken in a carefully non-threatening, sympathetic, and non-judgmental tone of voice!)... Sometimes they say yes, sometimes they say no. Barring anything abusive or imminently dangerous, if they say "no," then it's walk-away time.
      *friend of bar.ka

      "Evidently, I am an unrepentant b*tch, possible trouble maker, and all around super villian"

      Comment


      • #4
        I'd stay back a way and watch the train wreck. The horse got on the trailer to arrive at the show...so there's a pretty good chance he'll get on it to get home (evenually).

        Plus, just how many horse skeletons have you seen at show grounds? So, they eventually got on some conveyance.
        "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"

        Comment


        • #5
          God had you been there two weeks ago when I picked up my new filly. She is two (just turned), and had never been loaded before. She ties, leads, and picks her feet up somewhat. They aced her before I got there, no help. I figured it could be a challenge but...

          For the love of all that is holy. Reared so high I thought she would go over twice, was kicking too hard to use a butt rope or lock arms... Got loose twice from one of the grooms with a shank over her nose. If some magical horse whisperer had come up and been able to help I would have done cart wheels. Instead it took making basically a chute in a different area and their vet coming with more tranqs, a lot more. And it still took probably an hour. I have never had a horse give the middle finger quite so clearly, although she was justified. She wasn't scared so much (which impressed me) as just not doing it, she told us she knew it was a bad idea!

          I am glad she is home now, and am looking forward to slowly teaching her to load after we learn some other more pressing skills. Really is a sweet filly, but between 3 pro handlers, a vet, and my friend and I (not all at once!) If was a very difficult thing to do. I hope I never have to deal with that ever again and I pity those with problem loaders!

          When my other mare was younger she was quite the worrier. Took three people to pull or cut her mane, a lip chain for shots. Again, sweet girl but had some serious baggage. Now she can have her repro work done without being sedated at all and stands like a lady for everything. But there were some interesting moments on the journey here!
          Last edited by magicteetango; Jun. 2, 2013, 04:24 PM. Reason: awesome brain blip... typed completely sedated instead. Oops!

          Comment


          • #6
            I have stepped in several times when horses were placed in danger. One time horsey went over the breast bar and was in danger of damaging lungs/ribs. Second time horsey jumped in to the manger. Third time horsey was being beaten in to the trailer. I tend to get rather strident in these situations and take over until horsey is OK. Probably should not get involved - but you can't watch while a horse gets injured by some dumb idiot's ineptitude. I am generally on the horse's side, and in the situations that do not involve imminent injury I'll pass by. The slackers that cannot be bothered to train a horse to load reliably deserve what their horses hand out.
            ... _. ._ .._. .._

            Comment


            • #7
              To answer your question, you should mind your own business unless it's clear that the people are being abusive to the horse, in which case I'd notify show management.

              Otherwise, stay out of it and keep walking. Spectators who "enjoy the show" never help in a situation like that, and can actually exacerbate it if those loading are feeling like the center of attraction.

              Comment


              • #8
                I try and offer a little advice, if they take it fine, if not fine too, then I wish them luck. If it was something dangerous for the horse I would step in, or contact show stewards, etc.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I stay out of it.

                  I have a horse who occasionally acts like he's going to give me trouble getting in the trailer. He always gets on, but sometimes it takes a few minutes. If some well-meaning person ran over and tried to insert themselves into the situation, it would just complicate things. I'd hate that, and I'd ask the person, as politely as possible, to please leave us alone.

                  I see people doing stuff with their horses all the time that I'd object to. Well, stuff I'd object to if my horse did it. Like grazing under saddle, or using a human for a scratching post, or dragging a person all over creation on the end of a lead. I don't say a word. Obviously that person likes having their horse do that, so who am I to judge?
                  I'm not ignoring the rules. I'm interpreting the rules. Tamal, The Great British Baking Show

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    My sister owned a 1/2 Arab, 1/2 Saddlebred that was a terrible loader until I finally trained him to load using a technique I found in a really good book (Training Your Own Young Horse). But, until I got him trained, he liked to play some serious mind games before he would get on. I confess I hit him with a coat hanger once - it was handy and I was mad. He did immediately load! Also whapped him with a broom once or twice. I know we sound like total hillbillies, but he was a booger and we knew he would load. He just wanted us to make him.

                    My point here is...we would often get "experts" stopping by to tell us how to load him. This would only make things worse as they would want to do things that we *knew*, from long experience, would.not.work! So then we would have to argue with the experts and try to load the booger.

                    So, I guess I would plead for forbearance unless the situation was completely abusive and, in that case, go for the authorities.

                    As for other situations, I try to be friendly and helpful when people seem to need help. So far, it's worked.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I ask if they need help and if they say no, keep away.
                      Come to the dark side, we have cookies

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Isabeau Z Solace View Post
                        GM was just wrestling with a horse in the USET rotunda a few weeks ago. If anyone else had done that they would be shot. Does who you are matter more than what you do?
                        .
                        I don't read the H/J forum, so I'm not familiar with the incident you're referring to. What happened?
                        I'm not ignoring the rules. I'm interpreting the rules. Tamal, The Great British Baking Show

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Generally speaking, mind your own damn business.

                          I have a horse that used to be a holy terror to load. He's now a reliable self-loader, but it's taken some time.

                          When he was bad, I cannot tell you how truly irritating it was to have everyone and their mother drop by the trailer to offer help/advice/whatever. It's absolutely astounding to me how everyone is suddenly a horse trainer in that situation.

                          The key with my guy was to be patient. We put two feet on the ramp, pause, back off the ramp, pause, take three steps up the ramp, pause, etc...

                          Getting behind him at all would send him into a blind panic that would have him running backward at mach 30 regardless of what or whom might be standing in the way.

                          So...just because you see someone dealing with a tough loader, this is not the opportunity to put your trainer hat on. Assume that whoever has the tough loader is not, in fact, a moron, and move on with you life. Also, thank your lucky stars that your horse loads. Not all of them are baggage free.
                          "Are you yawning? You don't ride well enough to yawn. I can yawn, because I ride better than you. Meredith Michael Beerbaum can yawn. But you? Not so much..."
                          -George Morris

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I stroll up, watch, ask if I can help. It's happened so often I cannot count with likely new parents of a kid with a horse at a show, lesson, trailride, etc.
                            I keep a buggy whip with a plastic bag tied to the end and if necessary I test it out on the horse, gently, slowly. Always got the job done.

                            I remember a low moment when nobody had trailers and few horses knew how to load and this poor mare was being so harassed into going in (not) - I did not know how to help, at that time, and the horse had to be ridden home.
                            Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I am really good at teaching horse to load.

                              I NEVER intervene in a situation. Unless it is someone I know and they are begging.

                              Not worth it. Not safe.

                              If it became abusive I would film it or at least get the names and remember them for later.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Well, I'm not very good at loading horses. I had a really bad wreck inside a closed trailer with a flipped out horse. Ended up with only a broken arm but it was a very long and traumatic event. As much as I think everything's fine and I can say with total bravado "ok now let's all walk into that much-too-small tin can, shall we?? I have no doubt whatsoever that I emanate a certain lack of conviction that once the horse loads that it's a good place for us both to be. I assume all this because none of my horses have ever been good loaders. Which says: it's me. All that self-flagellation aside, I was at a local show (given the above history, first time off the farm in 7 years and , so far, the last time) and the mare was just refusing to get back on that trailer (after what had been such a fun, fun show). We're in the middle of all these trailers, everyone's watching, and it just totally sucked. Please trust me that me and my helper were NOT doing anything remotely abusive, no whips or smacking or anything-- I think the worst sin was we ended up trying a lunge rope around her rump.

                                The problem with people strolling by and asking if they could help: they're at the end of a long, tiring show also. They may not really have the time or skills to really help. I let this one young woman try to help and she was completely ineffective and just confusing my horse, and then her teenaged friend joined in and within 5 minutes it became this crowd-sourced event that was so much worse than the status quo. I had to say ok thanks everyone, but we're done.

                                Just trying to offer the perspective of someone who could surely benefit from your help, but there's no way for the frustrated, embarrassed horse owner to know if you can actually help or are you just thinking "geez I can do better than THAT idiot because my trainer showed me once!".
                                (In the end, we pulled the trailer about a quarter mile away from the show grounds, I walked the mare over, and a very experienced horsewoman helped me load her. I knew this woman so I guess part of what made that work was that I trusted her and her experience. (This does not exclude the possibility that she considered me an idiot, but as long as I didn't know that, all is good LOL)

                                Anyway, just hoping you'll understand the aversion someone like me may have when you say: can I help? I'd love if you had a sign on your forehead that says "and yes, I really am qualified!" But in the stress of the moment, you'd rather just be invisible-- and every offer to help comes across as condemnation or ridicule.

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by HungarianHippo View Post
                                  Anyway, just hoping you'll understand the aversion someone like me may have when you say: can I help? I'd love if you had a sign on your forehead that says "and yes, I really am qualified!" But in the stress of the moment, you'd rather just be invisible-- and every offer to help comes across as condemnation or ridicule.
                                  Thanks for that. I am confused by the behavior of people who park themselves and glare at those struggling with the loading process. Surely, they cannot think that glaring is helpful? And as you point out, getting people directly involved when you don't know them (or their 'qualifications) and they don't you, the horse, and the issues involved with both, is really a bad idea.

                                  I am thinking that the next time I see someone offer to 'help' I will remind them that not the trailer owner,driver nor horse owner nor handler are liable injuries incurred when helpers decided to 'intervene.'
                                  "Friend" me !

                                  http://www.facebook.com/isabeau.solace

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    No advice, just a story... Many years ago I had a horse that was a booger to load. We were that last trailer to leave at several 4H shows. Then we learned to show the horse a corn broom. Not a whip, not a stick, not a crop. Just an ordinary broom. Not even touch him with it, or swing it at him. Just hold it and stand at his side. He self loaded every time ... any trailer. We discovered this quirk when we used a broom to sweep the ramp before a loading attempt. we were expecting the usual agony of loading. Were we surprised !!
                                    Equus makus brokus but happy

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      MYOB, if you think it's getting abusive (and that's a toughie too) go to show management.

                                      I also had a horse who was tricky to load. He was fine once there and would come off like a gentlemen, but getting him on just took a little time and patience and quiet.

                                      I basically had to stand in the trailer asking gently and let him do his hissy-dance - side to side, backing up, planting his feet and being a statue, snorting like he'd never seen a trailer. I know it looked from the outside like I had no clue as to what I was doing, but if you got extra people behind him he'd shut down. If there were implements of any sort waved at him he'd panic and we were done.

                                      It generally took between 15 and 30 min, and all I did was to limit his movement, keep him facing the trailer, and let him sort it out. He'd suddenly stop, look at me, sigh, and step cautiously on. My trailer was a wonderful old Merhow 2h with a long low ramp, white inside, lovely and airy and bright. When he decided to get on I'd go out out through the escape door pulling the rope around the corner with me, and go around to do the butt bar... once on he never offered to back off before being asked.

                                      I never minded the people who walked by saying "are you ok?" and were sensible and kept going when I said we were fine. It was the macho types (both male and female) who were SURE I had no clue and were going to "help" whether I liked it or not. They made the process longer because I'd take him away from the trailer to explain while he grazed, and then I had to start all over again.

                                      So yeah, MYOB please. A quick "OK?" if you must, but then go away if you aren't needed.

                                      I sure learned to park well away from the center of things!

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by oldernewbie View Post
                                        My sister owned a 1/2 Arab, 1/2 Saddlebred that was a terrible loader until I finally trained him to load using a technique I found in a really good book (Training Your Own Young Horse). But, until I got him trained, he liked to play some serious mind games before he would get on. I confess I hit him with a coat hanger once - it was handy and I was mad. He did immediately load! Also whapped him with a broom once or twice. I know we sound like total hillbillies, but he was a booger and we knew he would load. He just wanted us to make him.

                                        My point here is...we would often get "experts" stopping by to tell us how to load him. This would only make things worse as they would want to do things that we *knew*, from long experience, would.not.work! So then we would have to argue with the experts and try to load the booger.

                                        So, I guess I would plead for forbearance unless the situation was completely abusive and, in that case, go for the authorities.

                                        As for other situations, I try to be friendly and helpful when people seem to need help. So far, it's worked.
                                        By Jan Dickerson? I had that book, lent it out and never got it back. Her other book "Make the Most of your Horse" is also outstanding IMHO she was under appreciated https://www.chronofhorse.com/article/col-jan-dickerson
                                        I wasn't always a Smurf
                                        Penmerryl Sophie RIDSH
                                        "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
                                        The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X