I'd use a lipline on him. Chain shank.
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Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.
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The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.
3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.
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Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.
Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.
Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.
Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:
Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.
Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.
Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.
Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.
Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.
Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.
Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.
5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.
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As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.
If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.
Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.
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The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.
8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.
Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.
Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!
(Revised 2/8/18)
Board Rules
1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.
This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.
Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.
Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.
2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.
3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.
4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.
Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.
Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.
Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:
Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.
Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.
Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.
Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.
Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.
Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.
Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.
5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.
6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.
If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.
Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.
7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.
8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.
Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.
Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!
(Revised 2/8/18)
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Naughty pony that bolts in hand (not under saddle)
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A "Be Nice" halter might be a very good everyday halter for this little brat, once he is better mannered - you will not be tempted to not put on the stud chain. They are nylon halters that have little metal knobbies at the strategic points. Can be very mild if the horse is mannerly, can firm if the horse is rude, can be abused if the handler is not sensitive or has a temper. Never tie a horse up in one.Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique
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I came back to follow up. He's gotten SO MUCH BETTTER! I'm so lucky that everyone that handles him (on 'staff') is on the same page and same skill level.
The first thing we did was rig up a very stiff rope halter with a chain under the chin like show arabs have it (clipped back to itself thru the side rings). This is what worked the best on him. I'm having a custom rope halter made for him now, very stiff with the nose knots on just the right spots, and with a scawbrig under the chin(kind of like this except knots on the nose and knots under the chin http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphoto...97102608_n.jpg but more like this https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.n...dddafe4d382d9f ). So I'm really excited. We'll also be able to use it like a normal rope halter as he continues to prove himself.
The chain over the nose had hardly ANY effect on him what so ever. It was having the chain under the chin, again like a 'Y' (clipped back to itself) thru the rings of a very stiff very fairly thin rope halter with knots on the nose. It worked like a pinch collar on a dog. It gave me more of a POP than the chain over the nose (and either got tight and never loosened or pulled the halter around into his eye on the off side).
The second thing we did was really vary his routine. He never did the same things in the same order on any day. He went to different pastures, got let go of at different spots, went to a different stall and some days got tied to cross ties before going to his stall.
We figured out a few key triggers (one was taking him down to cross a small stream on his way up to the barn to eat breakfast). We used this to have a helper behind his leader with a longer rope that could 'bust him' if he got the rope out of the main hander's hand.
But knock on wood he hasn't done it in weeks. I'm able to lead him with the rope lightly in my hand and he stays slightly behind my shoulder (instead of with his head right at my shoulder).
Now if we could just get him MORE FORWARD under saddle. Actually, just more responsive in general.
Blimey, this guy is just SO STOIC to any kind of physical pressure. He just doesn't care. :-P
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I had taken this video a few days ago and thought "Oh, I should follow up with the post I made on COTH... incase anyone else has the same problem".
We've been working on the in-hand ground work. Making sure voice commands are being used, making sure he understands transitions, teaching him he can side pass, turn on the forehand etc. Even got him lunging in a 55 X 110 ft space, then lunging him in the larger arena. WOOOT WOOT.
Anyhow... I was JUST going to login here to BRAG how far he had come...
http://youtu.be/yXul5Ok1dY4 LOOK, doing in hand work with OUT a halter...
until he bolted with me 3 TIMES LAST NIGHT going from stall to pasture. THEN he bolted with my SO (and me once I got involved) twice this morning coming back into his stall.
ARRRRRG!
I've really searched the net and found two courses of action beyond what most people would easily try TO COPE with the issue (chain on the nose, something in the mouth, something over the gums, rope halters, two people, ground handling education, making sure it isn't fear based/desensitizing training);
1. Tying the horse off to something high and solid (tree / tele pole) and hazing it until they figure out it is unpleasant to hit the end of the line and
2. Treat based training (clicker training).
I will admit I don't think I'd have the time (and I live here at the farm) to pursue BREAKING this habit (not just COPING with it to get him turned out and brought in). :-\
We take this horse in and out daily - and we use it as ground training. He is asked to stop, stop and back, stop and side pass, stop and turn on the forehand every X many strides. He is also asked to walk over obstacles etc. This horse has def had a boot camp of ground training in the past 5 months. We even work on ground tying him (with no abnormal behavior).
The chain OVER the nose was NOTHING to him. Chain UNDER the chin, thru the rings of a stiff rope halter with nose knots made more of an impression. He graduated to a rope hater with a chin strap (think the chain configuration but with softer rope halter rope). Until his little 'fall off the wagon' last night and this morning.
I'M SO FREAKIN' BUMMED that he had this utter outburst last night and this morning!!! It's like one of those OSHA "X number of days accident free" signs. His counter has just been reset. BOOO HISS!
I'm starting to wonder if this behavior is like being an alcoholic. You can rehab them but it will ALWAYS be there ready to manifest if the temptation is great enough and the support system (a valid leader) is too weak.
So anyhow... I came here to see about taking steps now to BREAK this habit VS just coping with it.
He belongs to GOOD PEOPLE, he has a GOOD LIFE and a GOOD HOME. He is actually GOOD under saddle. I've hauled him out a few times and taken him trail riding and he was good. We've got him cantering with lighter aids now. I can ride him around the farm by myself and he doesn't act balky or throw any kind of fits.
OH OH OH, we even got his feeding time bad behavior stopped! We can grain him both in the stall and out in pasture with other horses and tell him to "GIT" (in the stall he goes to the back wall, out in pasture he just stays away) and he doesn't get released to eat until he LOOKS away.
Now it is just this damn bolting. For all his good, this habit is a deal breaker.
Anyone have any opinions on the two methods I listed above?
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I have a big horse who has become a bit of a bolter as well. He can go a year without bolting and then get loose three days in a row. He does it when he gets overwhelmed (trailering, excited about turnout or showing, etc.) and doesn't give any warning before he is gone.
Other than him wearing a chain over the nose 100% of the time, I haven't had any success with controlling him once he decides to "leave." Although I love having a big horse, in the future I would reconsider size, because there is absolutely no way I can hold onto this size horse once he is too overwhelmed. I am thankful he is very well-behaved undersaddle.
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