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Odd taught cue???

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  • Odd taught cue???

    Back Story:
    The owner of the barn I board at asked me to climb on one of her rescues. Cute little spotted horse, around 15 hands and between 15-20 (we think 18). Narrow built legs, but wide upper body. She was told it was a spotted horse, but her body and head screams QH or paint. We have never seen her gait.

    After ride three someone has taught her something! She neck reins and leg yields. She wants to be steady in the bridle and almosts acts like she wants to round up. She's really out of shape, but tries to please.

    I was playing around and brought the reins forward and she slams on the break at the trot. (and brings her head up) I thought this was weird and repeated it several tries. Same result. It doesn't have to be much movement at all - she is very responsive.

    I'm pretty sure someone taught her this but why? Any clues as to her schooling and previous life?

    Her new owners are older and not very steady in the saddle, so this weird habbit is being taught out of her. I don't want anyone falling off by mistake.

    Thanks!!!

  • #2
    I don't quite understand, she stops when you put your hand forward?

    Calf roping horses are taught to stop immediately from any gait when you touch your hand on their neck.
    That is so the rider can get off and run down the rope to the calf.
    Maybe that is what you are doing, or the horse thinks you are going to do, if it was trained for that?

    Comment


    • #3
      What Bluey said.

      I have never even owned a western saddle & I KNOW this.

      I find it very odd the OP finds the training odd.

      If her owners are that unsteady, why on earth train it out? Odds are if they fall off the horse will probably wait around for them, & not take off back to the barn. Horse may back away a bit, trying to take slack out of "the rope," but will figure out stupid owner only fell off (again); if they are as pathetic of riders as you are making them out to be.
      "Police officers are public servants. Not James Bond with a license to kill."

      Comment


      • #4
        Aren't you a ray of sunshine, ThisTooShallPass...
        I've never heard of this cue, I've never ridden Western and perhaps the OP never has either. That's what this board is for, learning and sharing new things.
        "old" and "unsteady" does not equal "stupid" and "pathetic".
        I am getting "old" and can certainly be "unsteady" at times. I hopefully am not "stupid" and "pathetic". These words are not synonyms.

        OP, since I'm not the world's best rider, I would think that if you were working this horse for ME to ride, I would rather have you keep the cue in the horse's vocabulary and train ME to use it. Talk to the owners and see what they say.

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          I ride hunter/jumpers and grew up in show barns. Rode a few western pleasure horses, but never a cow horse. I never knew this and most likey this was her past training.

          She rides wonderful in my little english saddle and in frame, so I never expected a roping horse out of her. But some of her actions does make sense. So thank-you for a possible hint to her past.

          As far as training. You do not have to touch the neck to make her stop, just move the reins forward. If it was just me riding, I might keep it. However, I would find it annoying as I ride a very, lazy, green broke pony and I occationally throw the reins forward to get him going forward (per current trainer). For a beginner (and older folks) that has thier hands all over the horse I don't think this method of training will work for them. Her stop is hard and if I keep it, they will learn the hard way not to bring the reins forward. I feel it is not an ideal situation. Besides her "whoa" works beautifully too.

          Comment


          • #6
            My Western trained mare does this too, although not as much "stop on a dime" anymore (although I'm sure that's how it was originally). It's a useful thing if you know it's there....but feels a little counterintuitive sometimes - if she's getting anxious and quick, give her the reins and she settles down. Too much contact, and she gets more anxious.

            Do the new owners ride western?

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              Nope, new owers ride english and do not have a lot of saddle time. They are in thier late 60's so falling off is not very ideal. They enjoy walk/trot (and dream of cantering!). A perfect little mare for them. Nice, quiet and steady.

              Comment


              • #8
                NEver heard of that. But I have ridden english my whole life.
                I have had friends who had Western horses and penning horses but not familiar with that aide.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ThisTooShallPass View Post
                  What Bluey said.

                  I have never even owned a western saddle & I KNOW this.

                  I find it very odd the OP finds the training odd.

                  If her owners are that unsteady, why on earth train it out? Odds are if they fall off the horse will probably wait around for them, & not take off back to the barn. Horse may back away a bit, trying to take slack out of "the rope," but will figure out stupid owner only fell off (again); if they are as pathetic of riders as you are making them out to be.
                  Gee that was a bit harsh! She stated the owners are old and new to riding.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by oldpony66 View Post
                    Aren't you a ray of sunshine, ThisTooShallPass...
                    I've never heard of this cue, I've never ridden Western and perhaps the OP never has either. That's what this board is for, learning and sharing new things.
                    "old" and "unsteady" does not equal "stupid" and "pathetic".
                    I am getting "old" and can certainly be "unsteady" at times. I hopefully am not "stupid" and "pathetic". These words are not synonyms.

                    OP, since I'm not the world's best rider, I would think that if you were working this horse for ME to ride, I would rather have you keep the cue in the horse's vocabulary and train ME to use it. Talk to the owners and see what they say.
                    OMG are you serious? Why are you attacking me? The OP is the one that came here bashing the lack of the owners riding abilities. So go bash the OP for her diss'ing the owners to the whole world on a public board. Then you turn around and exactly agree with me to keep the cue? *go figure*
                    "Police officers are public servants. Not James Bond with a license to kill."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Sannois View Post
                      Gee that was a bit harsh! She stated the owners are old and new to riding.
                      Go bash the OP, she is the one that came here putting down the owners capabilities. I merely pointed out how such a cue could be to great advantage to keep, especially for those that do not ride as well as she made sure to let us all know.
                      "Police officers are public servants. Not James Bond with a license to kill."

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        Originally posted by ThisTooShallPass View Post
                        Go bash the OP, she is the one that came here putting down the owners capabilities. I merely pointed out how such a cue could be to great advantage to keep, especially for those that do not ride as well as she made sure to let us all know.
                        I came here seeking anwsers that I didn't know (which I got, so thank-you) and I was trying to stay out of this possible train wreck. "Bashing the owners" is a bit much. I would never bash the owners of the barn, they are wonderful, caring people who decided to get into horses for thier retirement than go to Florida and play golf.

                        I plan on keeping my friends safe and not end up in the hospital with a broken hip. Facts are facts. They are beginners. They are older folks and do not bounce. Besides, we all have to start somewhere. Usually on a safe, bomb proof horse. If I say "grab mane" to avoid pulling on the horse's mouth, I do not want to confuse the horse - have it stop and the owner go over its head.

                        If they were better riders or inspired to go galloping off into the sunset then this cue may seem appropriate. (And, honestly I don't even know how to properly use the cue so that I could teach them) At the moment, they just want to learn to trot.

                        Anyways, I grew up in the city. Nearest thing to a cow is at the grocery store. The majority of people within one hour of driving has never seen a horse. I like to learn and this is one new thing to add to my "horsey" knowlegde.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Training this out of of an 18 year old horse that obviously knows the job as it was trained? Why not just ride or get a more appropriate horse for their skill level?
                          "Police officers are public servants. Not James Bond with a license to kill."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            That cue will fade if you don't use it and work to desensitize the horse to it.
                            We have just kept riding horses trained like that and, once the horse understood the difference, if it is roping in an arena or not, they know not to pay attention to where the rider's hand is.

                            If your horse is trying it's best already and that calf roping stop is part of that, you can keep moving your hand around "carelessly" and keep her walking on until she understand now she is in another environment where that stop is not what is expected.

                            In fact, you have to keep training fresh for that roping stop, or it tends to fade, because humans are such ham-handed critters they tend to be inconsistent with their arms and hands and horses tend to easily become dull to such cues unless reinforced time and again.

                            Horses really have to be smart to put up with us confusing humans, don't they.

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                              Horses really have to be smart to put up with us confusing humans, don't they.
                              That is so true Bluey. Thanks for the helpful hints. Rode her again today and she was a good little girl. She wanted to stop when I moved my hands, but a little cluck was all that was needed and forward she continued. I don't think it will take long at all for her to ignore the cue.

                              Poor little mare hasn't been ridden in at least 5 years or even more. I think she is happy to have a job and a happy home.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by ThisTooShallPass View Post
                                What Bluey said.

                                I have never even owned a western saddle & I KNOW this.

                                I find it very odd the OP finds the training odd.

                                If her owners are that unsteady, why on earth train it out? Odds are if they fall off the horse will probably wait around for them, & not take off back to the barn. Horse may back away a bit, trying to take slack out of "the rope," but will figure out stupid owner only fell off (again); if they are as pathetic of riders as you are making them out to be.
                                Well, aren't you just the sweetest thing?!?! Bless your heart....

                                Geez...I rode and showed several western disciplines and this was NEVER a cue on any of the horses I rode (and gee, my trainer only had 60 or so in training at any one time).

                                OP - I'm not entirely convinced this indicates a past in Western training. In most Western disciplines, the cues almost entirely come from the seat - i.e sliding stop cue (at least in my trainer's horses) was to really round under your butt cheeks (my trainer would tell us to "sit DOWN"), and barely any pressure at all on the reins. Did you do anything with your seat and/or legs when you pushed the reins forward? Since they (or you) were told this is a "spotted saddle horse," even though you haven't seen her gait, could this cue be from that sort of training (saddlebred, gaited, etc)? Good luck, and good on ya for taking this project on and being so concerned for these owners. They are lucky to have you.
                                “Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of Solitaire. It is a grand passion.” ~Emerson

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Just read the thread title, and made a guess.

                                  Years ago my roommate had bought an ok little mare, then moved her to the barn where I boarded. She was a bugger to turn and roommate had quite the time with her.

                                  I hopped on her one day, tried a little neck reining, and she gave the answer.

                                  Roommate sold mare to someone looking for a nice Western trail horse, and then she picked up something more in line for H/J. Win/win! I'd sell her for the purpose trained - especially at her age, and look elsewhere.
                                  But he thought, "This procession has got to go on." So he walked more proudly than ever, as his noblemen held high the train that wasn't there at all. H.C.Anderson

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by ThisTooShallPass View Post
                                    Go bash the OP, she is the one that came here putting down the owners capabilities. I merely pointed out how such a cue could be to great advantage to keep, especially for those that do not ride as well as she made sure to let us all know.
                                    The OP did not put down the owners capabilities. Time for decaf ThisTooShallPass, hope your have a better day.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      My western trained horse does this as well. He is an eventer now, and it is nice to have a good whoa on him. Just a little shift of the reins and he stops.

                                      I personally would not train it out of the horse, especially at that age. It is a valuable tool, especially I think for a novice rider.
                                      come what may

                                      Rest in peace great mare, 1987-2013

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        What happens if you go into a two point on this mare (using neck for balance as a beginner should do) or give with your hands to go up a hill? if she stops when you do these things, I agree that it makes valid sense to train it out of her. If the aid is really a combo aid of seat back/deep and hands forward, then it might not be a bad cue to keep.
                                        Freeing worms from cans everywhere!

                                        Comment

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