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Controlling Coach...

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  • #21
    Reminds me of the time a BNT in saddleseat told me to do something that I thought I wasn't ready for (I wasn't) and I refused. Got the whole "Because I'm the trainer, that's why" routine whereupon I told her she was the hired help and dismounted!

    Nobody tells me what to do unless I ask!
    Ride like you mean it.

    Comment


    • #22
      My issue with this is constantly "asking" what is ok. Where does it stop and what if it’s not ok with them?
      That's the conversation you need to have. "Recent issues have me questioning your expectations for involvement with this horse. Can we please sit down and go over the details of how much involvement you'd prefer? I'm not feeling clear on the expectations right now."

      If they can't have that conversation, well, then you need to start asking yourself if the coaching is worth it. It might be. If this is stuff that you don't care about, you might be happy to just go with the program. I've done that.
      Lifestyle coordinator for Zora, Spooky, Wolfgang and Warrior

      Comment


      • #23
        Originally posted by rugbygirl View Post
        That's the conversation you need to have. "Recent issues have me questioning your expectations for involvement with this horse. Can we please sit down and go over the details of how much involvement you'd prefer? I'm not feeling clear on the expectations right now."

        If they can't have that conversation, well, then you need to start asking yourself if the coaching is worth it. It might be. If this is stuff that you don't care about, you might be happy to just go with the program. I've done that.
        This is exactly what I would do. I agree that at first glance the requests sound silly but there has to be a reason behind it. If its a good enough reason for you to stay, then great. If not, time to move on.

        Comment


        • #24
          Originally posted by whiteponie View Post
          Sure, example 1- I pulled my horse’s mane without “asking”.
          2- I taught my horse how to load without ok-ing it first.
          3- I had the vet up to check an abscess without them there to “supervise”

          The coach is not the BO, they only coach clients at this barn. The BO is quite laid back.

          Also I have owned and been the primary care giver of my horse(s) up until 5-6 years ago when I moved off our farm. I’ve shown H/J in my teens and earlier 20s and worked at a few show barns as a groom. I know my riding still needs improving but I do have some horse sense!
          In that case, you're on very solid ground telling this coach to back off if she wants to keep you as a lesson client.

          Comment


          • #25
            Im a dressage rider but have hunter jumper friends. Their coaches have much more control over what they do than the coaches Ive had as a dressage rider. Im not sure if thats typical of that discipline or not. Their coach tells them when they can ride their horse, how much, or that they cant ride them at all. If the coach thinks the horse needs training rides, they forbid the owner from riding and demand to train the horse for X amount of rides. No one will ever tell me that I cant ride my horse. If there is a safety or health issue, I understand the coach stepping in and suggesting help, thats fine but otherwise, no.

            I dont think any of the things you mentioned should have gotten you in "trouble". Its your horse, she is acting like its her horse.

            Comment


            • #26
              I hate coaches like this drive me crazy.

              With that said, we moved to this area 3 yrs ago. All the jumper shows that I want to enter I have to have a coach listed and they must be at the show grounds on the day of show. I find this just adds to the coaches having so much control over riders. Drives me crazy.
              My life motto now is "You can't fix stupid!"

              Are you going to cowboy up, or lie there and bleed

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              • #27
                Originally posted by PiaffePlease View Post
                Im a dressage rider but have hunter jumper friends. Their coaches have much more control over what they do than the coaches Ive had as a dressage rider. Im not sure if thats typical of that discipline or not. Their coach tells them when they can ride their horse, how much, or that they cant ride them at all. If the coach thinks the horse needs training rides, they forbid the owner from riding and demand to train the horse for X amount of rides. No one will ever tell me that I cant ride my horse. If there is a safety or health issue, I understand the coach stepping in and suggesting help, thats fine but otherwise, no.

                I dont think any of the things you mentioned should have gotten you in "trouble". Its your horse, she is acting like its her horse.
                Not the norm in my experience though I have heard stories. I have always been an independent person when it comes to my horse. I arrange most of my own vet appointments, farrier appointments (I am the only person at my barn using my farrier and my trainer has mentioned me using the same farrier as her but I do not like how that farrier does feet so I stay with mine), I try to never have training rides (usually only if I am out of town), never have trainer ride my horse at shows (ever), I trailer my own horse, I make it very clear that NO ONE is allowed to do ANY additional grooming on my horse, etc.
                And I have always been in A-rated show barns.

                Comment


                • #28
                  A coach is an advisor. A good coach is a "learned advisor."

                  A good student quickly identifies the good coach and follows their guidance because it's good advice. If they have a question about advice they ask it. They then evaluate the answer and choose their path. It's foolish to pay for good advice and then ignore it. It's not foolish to evaluate advice, however.

                  Always be ready to apply the "smell" test to any coaching advice.

                  G.
                  Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by whiteponie View Post
                    Sure, example 1- I pulled my horse’s mane without “asking”.
                    2- I taught my horse how to load without ok-ing it first.
                    3- I had the vet up to check an abscess without them there to “supervise”

                    The coach is not the BO, they only coach clients at this barn.
                    Sounds to me like the "coach" feels these are things he/she should get paid for and is irritated that you can handle them on your own without paying him/her for their services.
                    At its finest, rider and horse are joined not by tack, but by trust. Each is totally reliant upon the other. Each is the selfless guardian of the other's very well-being.
                    (Author Unknown)

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Absolutely no way that you need "permission" to groom your horse, have the vet out or teach it to load . That is absurd. The "big time" barns seem to micromanage and people pay them very well to do it. Perhaps because there are many, very inexperienced,people who have never kept their own horses at home and are rather clueless about management. You mention that you are NOT at an "A" barn.

                      I would tell your coach that you appreciate her coaching your RIDING, but that you are capable of managing your horse and will be doing so. If she would like a heads up when you're having the vet out, fine.

                      If this is not OK with her , then have a talk with the BO and tell her that you'd like to stay but you enjoy taking care of your horse and are not a child. Perhaps you can haul out for lessons.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        I had a little of that with a past trainer. I had fun initially at her barn, but then I bought a yearling filly from her. The idea was to get her trained and if she suited for me keep her, if not sell and purchase something else. I had another horse at the time to ride while the youngster was growing and getting training. Little by little I started getting some "suggestions" on what to do, when to do it, etc. At the time, I had to rely on her for transport. I finally decided that I wanted to have fun with my horse and I left her farm, got a truck and trailer and hit the road. I parted on good terms as I had been there for years and loved her training. I was tiredof the majority of the shows going from mostly locals with some A's to mostly A's. Grooms fees being added when I did all my own work at the show(stalls,water,etc) I have never been so happy with my riding. I am I a great rider-nope. Do I have fun- a resounding YES! I joined an active riding club, take a variety of clinics, everything from hunter lessons, to team penning, to musical freestyle dressage. My horse team pens, parades, trail rides the best, hunter paces, fox hunts, swims, camps, does low level dressage and combined tests.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by whiteponie View Post
                          Hello Everyone

                          I’m a long- time lurker but first time poster (as you can see!) and I’m hoping to get some opinions on my current situation.

                          I’ve been out of the H/J scene for a while (family/ career) and got back in a year or so ago. I went with a coach that had been recommended by several people but I IMHO find them on the controlling side.

                          I currently take several lessons a week (2- 3x) with them and they are very good at coaching; detailed ordinated, patient and kind to the horses BUT everything I do with my horse (that I own) must be pre-approved by them.

                          I would never do anything to endanger myself or my horse and have owned/showed/cared for horses before I took a break from riding.

                          Is this type of control common now? Or is it just my coach?

                          Side note: I’m not at an “A” or BNT barn.

                          Thanks
                          It's normal when they want to have you on the hook and relying on (read: leads to more money) them. You're a grown adult...ditch the BS artist and find another barn. You may not learn as much but you will enjoy your hobby more without someone hanging over your head, and that sounds like a tense atmosphere for the horse as well. I sure wouldn't be paying for that.
                          America dialed 911. Donald Trump answered the phone.

                          Stop pumping money into colleges and start getting ready to earn money in the projected tradesman shortage of 2024. Make Trades Great Again!

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by Eleanor View Post
                            I hate coaches like this drive me crazy.

                            With that said, we moved to this area 3 yrs ago. All the jumper shows that I want to enter I have to have a coach listed and they must be at the show grounds on the day of show. I find this just adds to the coaches having so much control over riders. Drives me crazy.
                            When people stop being enablers and vote elsewhere with their wallets instead of being sheep, this kind of behavior will stop.
                            America dialed 911. Donald Trump answered the phone.

                            Stop pumping money into colleges and start getting ready to earn money in the projected tradesman shortage of 2024. Make Trades Great Again!

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Go eventing. Starter classes have really, really small jumps.

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #35
                                The different points of view are great and after seeing the answers I am continuing the search to find a situation thats works for me! It's funny that eventing has been mentioned as I've been wanting to get out and try it!

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #36
                                  Oops double post....
                                  Last edited by whiteponie; May. 22, 2013, 12:47 PM. Reason: Oops double post....

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Thank you for making me feel less crazy. I had this same situation with the first h/j instructor/trainer I found when I started riding again. When I got my mare, it just got excruciating and I fired her after about 6 weeks for many items like what you described. I am so happy now... I take great dressage clinics 2-3xs a month and for fun we just started a jumper group with me and my 7 yr old mare and two OTTB's. We are the kindergarten jumper class :-) Today was out first lesson and it was amazing! We had so much fun. Three ladies and our greenies learning and laughing hysterically.

                                    Independent is good. All these poor people who get roped into the trainers who have input on everything are really missing out on half the fun of your own horse, IMHO. Honestly, if your trainer steps in for all the vet, farrier, chiro and other appointments, how are you ever going to be able to learn and know what is NQR or to manage their health? I'm the one responsible for my girl - my wallet and my smarts are her last line of defense and I will not ever let anyone step in again.

                                    Good luck!!!

                                    Comment


                                    • #38


                                      Originally posted by Sfbayequine View Post
                                      Independent is good. All these poor people who get roped into the trainers who have input on everything are really missing out on half the fun of your own horse, IMHO. Honestly, if your trainer steps in for all the vet, farrier, chiro and other appointments, how are you ever going to be able to learn and know what is NQR or to manage their health? I'm the one responsible for my girl - my wallet and my smarts are her last line of defense and I will not ever let anyone step in again.

                                      Good luck!!!
                                      AMEN!!!!!
                                      Last edited by BetterOffRed; May. 22, 2013, 06:11 PM. Reason: cuz I totally agree and this needs an emoticon!
                                      "I'm holding out for the $100,000 Crossrail Classic in 2012." --mem
                                      "With all due respect.. may I suggest you take up Croquet?" --belambi
                                      Proud Member of the Opinionated Redhead Club!

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by Sfbayequine View Post
                                        Independent is good. All these poor people who get roped into the trainers who have input on everything are really missing out on half the fun of your own horse, IMHO. Honestly, if your trainer steps in for all the vet, farrier, chiro and other appointments, how are you ever going to be able to learn and know what is NQR or to manage their health? I'm the one responsible for my girl - my wallet and my smarts are her last line of defense and I will not ever let anyone step in again.
                                        Depends on what you want. I have a horse in full training at a BNT barn. I do nothing but write a check once a month and ride once a week. I don't get my horse ready and I don't put him away after a ride. I don't arrange vet, farrier, or dentist. I do not expect to ride anytime I please. I'm cool with that. Quite honestly, I wouldn't just show up with my trailer and practice loading nor would I clip him while he's in their care. With this particular horse, I wouldn't expect them to allow me to take him to a show on my own, either (not that I would want to!). But with the previous mare, I asked if they'd mind if I took her to shows on my own if I so desired- not a problem- but due to time/money issues I never did. That horse was pretty well seasoned and not the least bit difficult. All that said, my trainer is pretty down-to-earth and certainly not a control freak. I also trust his judgement- if I didn't I wouldn't be there. Micro-managing is not my style.

                                        I have a bunch of horses at home as well. If I want to ride for fun, I can do it at home. I have plenty of practice in the day-to-day care of the horses as well as the farm. I'm pretty well-versed in making appointments and dealing with health issues.

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by Eleanor View Post
                                          I hate coaches like this drive me crazy.

                                          With that said, we moved to this area 3 yrs ago. All the jumper shows that I want to enter I have to have a coach listed and they must be at the show grounds on the day of show. I find this just adds to the coaches having so much control over riders. Drives me crazy.
                                          What?!
                                          Just list yourself as coach.


                                          I think there is a difference between, "if you have a coach you must list them" vs. "You have to have a coach.' I would like to see the prizelists.
                                          The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
                                          Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
                                          Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
                                          The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

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