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Emaciated CL Horse (Tennessee), UPDATE: Rescued!! (pg. 8)

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  • Originally posted by War Admiral View Post
    Meh. It's a compliment as far as I'm concerned! Of course, anyone on that board who really wants to is, I'm sure, MORE than welcome to contact the seller and make an offer on the remaining horses... #justsaying
    Agreed, and excellent point!
    Equus Keepus Brokus

    Comment


    • Originally posted by PeteyPie View Post
      Oh for heaven's sake, I just asked a question! Lighten up. If I don't ask, I don't learn, and there may well have been a reason, other than expediency, for keeping a starving horse in a stall rather than a paddock. And for what it's worth, I have rescued several starving horses and fattened them up nicely; but if there is a reason to do things differently than what I have been doing, well, I'd like to know.

      As for my question being useful, perhaps the answers (or the question) could be useful for another reader.

      And I certainly could not be criticizing this wonderful good deed, the time expended to make it happen, the incredible generosity of so many, or the beautiful, sturdy, clean stall that Sir is enjoying!
      Very classy reply. Very classy.
      Alis volat propriis.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by War Admiral View Post
        Supposedly yes but we do not have them. If St. Germain is reading this, I would sure LOFF to get them - the old War Admiral LOFFS papers!! If you think there's any possibility of prising them away from the seller do let us know!
        The owner didn't have the papers, but said he could get them. I requested them, and put in the receipt that he has two weeks to mail them to me. I told him that if he was claiming the horse was a certain bloodline we needed proper paperwork to back that up. I gave him my home address (not something I really wanted to do, but the only address I had handy) and asked him to mail them. If I don't get them (which is what I expect), I'll call him again.

        StG

        Comment


        • The best book for just learning about gaited horses is Lee Ziegler's Easy Gaited Horses.
          http://www.amazon.com/Easy-Gaited-Ho.../dp/B001QCXEX6

          Comment


          • I miss Lee Ziegler. She was a frequent and valued contributor to wreck.eq back in the day.

            And the book is excellent.
            "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

            ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
              Considering the former owner has a bunch of other horses, and you say both he and his girlfriend seemed nice, what was your take on why they're so thin?
              It would not be the first time a horse wound up in this condition because he is at the low end of the pecking order at feeding time.

              Sorry I missed the rescue/ride but if funds are still needed I can pitch in with funds or tack as I do recall buying a cutback saddle two years ago and never using it. I will dig it out (not hard it's at the office and just never made it home (too many saddles as it is) and take measurements and pics. if the horse keeper is interested.

              He looks like he is going to be a better (far better) than average horse. One day soon I predict that one owner will wind up buying all the other owners out for the honor of calling him hers and hers alone.

              I further predict that he will distinguish himself in one way or another that sets him above the average horse (in or out of the show ring).
              Last edited by 5; May. 22, 2013, 02:34 PM.
              A pussycat of a horse with a chewed off tail won the triple crown, The Cubs won the world series and Trump won the Presidency.
              Don't tell me 'It can't be done.'

              Comment


              • Originally posted by RHdobes563 View Post
                "To Sir, With Love" (a Sidney Portier movie).
                Second, third and forth this.
                A pussycat of a horse with a chewed off tail won the triple crown, The Cubs won the world series and Trump won the Presidency.
                Don't tell me 'It can't be done.'

                Comment


                • I adore the name "to sir, with love". LittleMissNoctis concurs

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by 5 View Post
                    It would not be the first time a horse wound up in this condition because he is at the low end of the pecking order at feeding time.
                    Someone PM'd me a copy of CL ad for the cremello and I agree with this. The cremello does not look in any way, shape or form underweight, at least in pics. There *may* of course be something else going on with Our Kid vet-wise - but I know Pony4Me is getting the vet out ASAP & I intend to pay for bloodwork & a fecal as long as he's out, so we should know a lot more soon enough.

                    He looks like he is going to be a better (far better) than average horse.
                    I further predict that he will distinguish himself in one way or another that sets him above the average horse (in or out of the show ring).
                    I *cautiously* agree with this, as well. That head and eye are lovely and just from the pics he looks very very *very* intelligent. Which of course has its upsides and its downsides (heh!) but I tend to be pretty good with those and I know Noctis also is. I'm really eager to meet him!!

                    St. Germain - that's great about the papers! In case anyone is wondering why I want 'em (I know we have that thread come up here every so often, usually from WB owners/breeders/trainers who don't have 'em, heehee) - really and truly the last time I had anything to do with a TWH on a regular basis was so long ago that Merry-Go-Boy was still alive! What better way to learn what has happened in a breed over the past few decades than to research the pedigree of a particular horse that is known to you? And anyway I always like to have papers just for what you can learn from them. In a lot of breeds the horse is a living piece of a history stretching back hundreds of years, and I'm just enough of a history geek to think that's pretty cool.
                    "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by sketcher View Post
                      Wow, FSHF forum is a bit harsh. I though cynicism ran rampant here on COTH but they make us look like ammies.
                      Many of them on that board are the same who were (and probably still are on the now private) on the litter box of the manure pile forum. Including spooksandbolts who was banned here as Thomas1 and banned on the Mane Street forum. I don't understand why people want to be on this board and still ridicule all of us crazy horsewomen who run around saving horses and throwing money at people to get them, LOL. (And btw, I told Thomas1 a year before he was banned about the issue that he ended up getting upset about and banned for. But he didn't believe me then.) But to some people, we are all simple ignorant bleeding hearted women who want to save all the animals. Well yes we do want to save as many as possible, but we pretty much know how to take care of a starved horse. We may be taken advantage of, but we're not dumb!

                      Comment


                      • Thomas1 only has about half the knowledge Thomas1 claims he does. He is very, VERY knowledgeable in a very VERY limited market segment but is way out of his depth otherwise, esp. when addressing American breeds and training practices. They are simply beyond his comprehension. When he started dissing on someone here who is actually a very well regarded USEF "R" judge in her discipline, I stopped listening. It's a free country, he can think what he likes - but so can I!
                        "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by 5 View Post
                          It would not be the first time a horse wound up in this condition because he is at the low end of the pecking order at feeding time.
                          Certainly not. One of my heart horses, an OTTB I got in my teen years had been about halfway rehabbed from a similar condition and I finished bringing him back. Kid feeding, low man on the totem pole for sure, and no one knowledgeable enough to figure out he needed to be separated at feeding time. Unfortunately ignorance can be just as damaging as outright neglect.

                          Farenheit looks like he's going to be a really beautiful boy once he's totally rehabbed. good work COTHers

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by rmh_rider View Post
                            Whew. I am home. About an hour ago.

                            The guy who was selling the horse was very nice. Very. He had the most lovely light green shade of eyes. He is a younger guy. His girlfriend was there and she was very nice too.

                            All went well. The seller also has a cremello TWH gelding also to sell, and a white "saddle mule" which means he is gaited. I saw him move and he is gaited, so is the cremello. He did put the cremello on CL a few hours ago. The TWH cremello has a BS of 3. The red one was 2. He has a small black TWH mare also. Oh and a goat with some horns. Not sure if the black mare, or goat is for sale. I think the cremello is young also. Probably under 5.

                            St Germain, and Pony4me (and Pony's husband) were SO nice. Their barn is perfect. Very sturdy, clean, quiet. Just perfect.

                            There may be papers available. I got St Germain to ask about them. Maybe he will send them.

                            Except for me loosing my cell phone in the house before I left (dratted all, but found it in the kitchen), there was free XM in the truck (must be for the memorial weekend - thanks XM), and the weather was 15 degrees cooler there, than it was an hour south, the drive was smooth, getting the horse easy also. He loaded, unloaded, Pony4Me's husband took the mail box out, I got out on the road just fine and didn't get in the ditch, and I got home just fine! Thanks of course to my GPS.

                            Whew. No lama drama. Ya!

                            Anytime you go up to TN it is always SO lovely. Rolling hills of vivid green, beautiful landscapes, homes and property which makes you gasp at their beauty, weather was nice, people are always nice. All's well, ends well for my part that is. The work is still to happen with him with his health.

                            I do not think this horse could have handled too long of a drive. Today's haul was just enough for him. Local. Once he was loaded, an hour at the most drive. I was very careful with him hauling. I always am though with all horses, always.

                            Good night!
                            One has to wonder why they are having these animals if they can't feed them...I know, that is the most elementary question, but it still keeps popping up in my mind. And then to be leaving to go away...wonder who is caring for them?

                            Good job on the rescue, though!
                            America dialed 911. Donald Trump answered the phone.

                            Stop pumping money into colleges and start getting ready to earn money in the projected tradesman shortage of 2024. Make Trades Great Again!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by katarine View Post
                              Not in any way directed at you rmh rider. Not at all.

                              someone questioned how he was being housed and frankly, ain't nobody got time for dat.
                              I thought maybe you were directing it at me, when my reply was directed at the person questioning him being in the stall. Why on earth would anyone want to rescue a horse but put their own, already-healthy horses at risk just to make a rescue happy? He will have his day, I am sure.
                              America dialed 911. Donald Trump answered the phone.

                              Stop pumping money into colleges and start getting ready to earn money in the projected tradesman shortage of 2024. Make Trades Great Again!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by War Admiral View Post
                                Supposedly yes but we do not have them. If St. Germain is reading this, I would sure LOFF to get them - the old War Admiral LOFFS papers!! If you think there's any possibility of prising them away from the seller do let us know!
                                Bet the seller would turn loose of those papers for another $50...I have used that tactic several times...well worth it if they are not forthcoming. For some reason people sometimes think they are worth money sitting by themselves in a filing cabinet, go figure.
                                America dialed 911. Donald Trump answered the phone.

                                Stop pumping money into colleges and start getting ready to earn money in the projected tradesman shortage of 2024. Make Trades Great Again!

                                Comment


                                • I've sent in my $50 dribble. Please let us know if the combined total on the donations are covering his expenses thus far.


                                  Originally posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
                                  Thanks! Walker Rescue seems to operate on a "Flashmob!" basis--just like this. When there's one in trouble, people turn out and do their best. In many ways, it's MORE effective than "rescue operations" that may be spending your donation money on indoor arenas, salaries, propaganda, or unsalvageable horses. When it's done this way, your dollars are going STRAIGHT to help the horse.
                                  Unfortunately, this doesn't happen in my area. And I see plenty of Walkers go through Camelot and New Holland kill-buyer auctions without a peep from anyone interested in rescuing Walkers specifically. It's so sad to see posts every week from Camelot and New Holland and all the OTTB and Saddlebred groups jump in to help their breeds, and not a peep for a gaited horse. Yes, individuals do end up buying some of these Walkers, but there's no *flash-mob* effort to pull a healthy, sound, well-trained, young horse that otherwise would go to slaughter.

                                  While I get your point about some rescues wasting money on non-essentials or pouring money into horses that it might be kinder to euthanize, I personally would prefer to be able to donate to an established 501(c)3 rescue. After working for one of the nation's top charities and learning about how charities work and what can happen, I feel much more comfortable giving money to a group which is run by a board of directors rather than an individual, must provide tax and audit information to the public, and can be held accountable.


                                  Originally posted by War Admiral View Post
                                  BTW - can anyone recommend a trainer for flat-shod TWH? (Thinking ahead a little bit, I grant you, but an old lady can dream...!)

                                  I'll be interested to see if he *really* gaits or whether he's just pacey as so many of the trail horses are...

                                  ETA: If anyone has a Charmayne James Air Ride barrel pad they can donate to the cause that would be helpful. The last time I rehabbed one like this, that was by far her pad of choice, and it will work well under a saddle seat saddle. Doesn't have to be a new one, it can be yucky, I have pads I'm planning to put underneath & on top of it, but I have found it helped a lot with a horse with weak back muscles.
                                  I don't know what area you're in WarAdmiral, but you could check for trainers on the FOSH website.

                                  For what it's worth, I've always used a Myler comfort snaffle on my Walker with no shanks at all. Walkers do NOT need funky, fancy, harsh, shanked, what-have-you/fill-in-the-blank bits in order to gait. Just like any horse, the gentlest, effective bit is the best choice and even a horse that has been ridden in a long-shanked bit can usually be taught to respond to a more basic bit.

                                  A lot of TWH riders use dressage saddles as they are great saddles for gaited breeds.


                                  Originally posted by War Admiral View Post
                                  Katarine, thanks so much for that. Very interesting. I can see I have a whole lot of catching up to do in terms of what's been happening in the breed the last 40-odd years! Can anyone direct me to where I should be looking/what I should be reading? I'm always game to learn new things.

                                  Our Kid sure looks a lot more like the lighter-boned type.
                                  In TWH, you generally see the lighter-boned type, which looks to be very influenced by Saddlebred bloodlines, or the more compact version, which as I understand it, is an older style of TWH. I prefer the compact type which looks more proportionate to my eye, though I don't consider the Saddlebred style to be a detraction either.

                                  Definitely, get the Lee Zeigler book. Liz Graves is another good trainer who writes well; she has a number of articles posted on her website. Anita Howe also has a recent book out that's useful. I've attended clinics by both Graves and Howe and both are well worth it, should you get a chance to at least audit one or want to look into their DVDs.
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                                  • Originally posted by RubyTuesday View Post
                                    I thought maybe you were directing it at me, when my reply was directed at the person questioning him being in the stall. Why on earth would anyone want to rescue a horse but put their own, already-healthy horses at risk just to make a rescue happy? He will have his day, I am sure.

                                    I was aggravated at PeteyPie. Yes, she (?) asked nicely, and yes there's a chance to learn from other's experience....but hot on the heels of unloading him? We need to know, right now, right this second? Nah. It aggravates me to no end to see a 'helped horse's helpers' being questioned about their methods when honestly- it's reasonable to stick his bony behind wherever it makes the most practical sense on that particular property and for that particular person for a few days- period.

                                    Just wait for the second guessing when and if videos and more photos come out. It's a form of vulturing that I just don't care for, and it's totally fine if someone doesn't like me not liking it.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by WoofNWhinny* View Post
                                      For what it's worth, I've always used a Myler comfort snaffle on my Walker with no shanks at all. Walkers do NOT need funky, fancy, harsh, shanked, what-have-you/fill-in-the-blank bits in order to gait. Just like any horse, the gentlest, effective bit is the best choice and even a horse that has been ridden in a long-shanked bit can usually be taught to respond to a more basic bit.
                                      Thanks so much for the help & advice! Yes, the change in bitting is the first thing I noticed right away since the last time I fooled w/ these horses. Time was, if you were showing a TWH saddle seat, you would NOT be seen in the show ring without the long-shanked "S" shaped curb bit; it's wonderful to see the trail/pleasure type horses being shown now in plain loose-ringed snaffles. I would think they'd be a great deal easier to use for training purposes also.

                                      A cutback saddle seat saddle is a perfect example of a piece of tack that is only as useful as its rider IMO. If all you know how to do is stick your legs out the front door and flop around on the cantle, not very useful at all. But if you know how to sit up in a well-balanced, correct position and actually equitate, not much dif between that and a dressage saddle in terms of *function* IMO. The newer ones with the adjustable bars tend to help address that issue.

                                      I will definitely check out the work of the trainers you have suggested! Many thanks!
                                      "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by War Admiral View Post
                                        Thanks so much for the help & advice! Yes, the change in bitting is the first thing I noticed right away since the last time I fooled w/ these horses. Time was, if you were showing a TWH saddle seat, you would NOT be seen in the show ring without the long-shanked "S" shaped curb bit; it's wonderful to see the trail/pleasure type horses being shown now in plain loose-ringed snaffles. I would think they'd be a great deal easier to use for training purposes also.

                                        A cutback saddle seat saddle is a perfect example of a piece of tack that is only as useful as its rider IMO. If all you know how to do is stick your legs out the front door and flop around on the cantle, not very useful at all. But if you know how to sit up in a well-balanced, correct position and actually equitate, not much dif between that and a dressage saddle in terms of *function* IMO. The newer ones with the adjustable bars tend to help address that issue.

                                        I will definitely check out the work of the trainers you have suggested! Many thanks!
                                        Jean-Claude Racinet used to advocate using a cutback for dressage, and even designed a line of saddles that were like a cutback with a monoflap--very comfy but VERY minimalist. Yummy if you grew up bareback riding like me!

                                        The trainer who rescued my little guy started him in a Dr. Cook's Bitless Bridle, which is a great choice for any horse who is bit-shy or who has damaged bars or a reluctance to go forward. Being an old dressagey sort, however, I've now hung a bridoon carrier on it with a lovely sweet-iron, curvy Western ring snaffle. I run the Dr. Cook rein ends through the rings giving me a little "pre-signal," and put another rein on the bit itself. The result feels like a cross between a full bridle and a polo gag, and my guy just loves it! I use the bit rein exclusively to get a jaw flexion or a "bump-n-drop" head lowering. No shankers here! I thought it was nutty, and intended to use it just for transitioning, but his old trainer LOVED it and is trying the same. I'm sure Dr. Cook would not be amused . . .

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by sketcher View Post
                                          Wow, FSHF forum is a bit harsh. I though cynicism ran rampant here on COTH but they make us look like ammies.
                                          What is this forum you speak of? Is this the same as someone earlier called FiSH? What's that one too by the way

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