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Attempted poaching during try out...say anything?

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  • #41
    In general, physicians don't solicit their own business. Neither do many attorneys. But "you van bet your bippy" that their waiting rooms and possibly even exam/ consulting rooms are full of brochures containing professional CV'S,lists of services and such information. There are likely business cards at check-in and check-out areas and most have readily accessible and impressive websites. This is comparable to a trainer mentioning that a stall is available.
    Last I checked, riding trainer/ horse trainer/barn owner was a far cry from physician or attorney. Marketing and business practices differ, as they should.
    "Absent a correct diagnosis, medicine is poison, surgery is trauma and alternative therapy is witchcraft" A. Kent Allen
    http://www.etsy.com/shop/tailsofglory

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    • #42
      JackieBlue, that is kind of a funny statement that attorneys and physicians don't solicit business -- my company does marketing for physicians and attorneys! They most assuredly do solicit business, and don't think for a minute that the "business side" of the practice is not foremost in their minds.

      Rarely will you find brochures in their offices with anything other than health or legal information.

      The referral relationship is one of their most important means of marketing. They will NOT undermine that relationship, it's their bread-and-butter. The scenarios I describe are real, and in fact, most of us in business understand how referrals work. You say thank you to your referral source, and you do NOT steal their business. A steady stream of referrals far outweighs any business you might acquire through poaching.
      Last edited by King's Ransom; May. 14, 2013, 09:26 AM.

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      • #43
        Thank you for making my point. I said they don't solicit THEIR OWN business. Meaning someone else does it for them. I don't know many trainers who hire marketing firms. They are responsible for bringing in their own business. So, interpersonal relationships between horse trainers and those who visit their business and doctors and lawyers and those who visit their business are (and should be) quite different.
        I spend more time than I'd like in DR's offices. There are always brochures with contact info, list of services, etc. And I have plenty of business experience and understand very well the value of a referral, but thank you for the lesson. Just for the sake of clarity, there was no referral in this case.
        "Absent a correct diagnosis, medicine is poison, surgery is trauma and alternative therapy is witchcraft" A. Kent Allen
        http://www.etsy.com/shop/tailsofglory

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        • #44
          so if it didn't bother you why start a thread on COTH? I'm just wondering. You were willing to walk away over this. I think its more of an issue then you are letting on. I got a MUCH different impression.

          I stand by the fact you weren't there, tone is everything.Its not even about YOU or YOUR training. Its between the buyer and seller here. It can be a "slight" if you want it to be. I don't see it like that.

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          • #45
            Sure people will walk only if they don't like the service, but if I referred someone to a colleague for a particular issue and lost all business to that colleague, I would tend to rethink my policy of referral.

            It seems generally true of vets and shoers when they select who will cover them if they're involved in one emergency and another pops up, or on vacation.

            I understand the arguments on both sides, but I would tend to be suspicious of what I do consider questionable judgment.
            *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=

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            • #46
              Originally posted by AllWeatherGal View Post
              Sure people will walk only if they don't like the service, but if I referred someone to a colleague for a particular issue and lost all business to that colleague, I would tend to rethink my policy of referral.
              I would tend to rethink the quality of my service if my clients like the competition better.

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              • #47
                Originally posted by Beverley View Post
                I would tend to rethink the quality of my service if my clients like the competition better.
                In this economy people will go for less expense knowing that the quality is dropping.

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                • #48
                  Originally posted by Beverley View Post
                  I would tend to rethink the quality of my service if my clients like the competition better.
                  That's just no an accurate reflection of how a human brain operates in our "consumer driven" society.

                  People respond to

                  1)cheap (think McDonalds an Walmart)
                  2)attractive (think Disney World)
                  3)flashy (think Madonna or any super hit mega recording star)
                  4)feeling good (think potato chips, CocaCola, and the 'big gulp' beverage size)
                  Etc.

                  In this day and age people are trained from birth, by mass marketing machines, to make the choice that feels good and produces the fastest results.

                  NOT the best choice, but the one that feels the best the fastest.

                  Slick salesmen get plenty of clients plenty quick. They are entertaining, disarming, and good at creating that warm fuzzy feeling inside. Draw reins, spurs, excessive longeing, calming supplements, and veterinary 'modalities' cover up an almost unbelievable array of sins/training incompetencies. (Just like a heart stint can 'make up' for bad genetics and a lot of cheeseburgers.)
                  "Friend" me !

                  http://www.facebook.com/isabeau.solace

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                  • #49
                    double
                    "Friend" me !

                    http://www.facebook.com/isabeau.solace

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by Isabeau Z Solace View Post
                      That's just no an accurate reflection of how a human brain operates in our "consumer driven" society.
                      Well, it's how my feeble brain works. I certainly recognize that anybody can hang out a 'trainer' shingle and attract business from people who don't know any better. But that's a whole other thread, as is the decline of good old basic horsemanship.

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                      • Original Poster

                        #51
                        Just wanted to report back that I was right to be skeptical of the overall honesty of this horse deal!

                        (no, I didn't loose a client, just a nice evening off wasted...)
                        Freeing worms from cans everywhere!

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                        • #52
                          I'd go to the new trainer if I were your client, as your needs are more important than mine - and I am paying you to meet my needs, not yours. If you would walk away from a horse that was well suited to me because it didn't meet your needs, then it would be the last check you got from me.

                          Surely your client doesn't have all this info, but in time she will, and she will leave you then.

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                          • #53
                            [QUOTE=AlexS;6995501]I'd go to the new trainer if I were your client, [QUOTE]

                            That would be particularly stupid in this situation, since the "new" trainer in this scenario was NOT honest or straightforward about some issues with this horse. Issues which were, fortunately, catalogued on the internet, by the owner.

                            But you know, maybe that's cool with you. Personally, I'd rather have a trainer that was skeptical of claims. I love all horses. Especially when I'm getting a rose-coloured sales pitch. Part of the reason I involve someone experienced is to watch for "red flags." I'm not stupid, but I am soft hearted, and it is VERY easy to convince me to overlook something my instincts tell me is a concern when someone "experienced" is saying all the right words to assure me that it is not a problem.

                            Finding the right match for horse and rider is NOT easy. It's tiring and frustrating. Try to vilify the people who knowingly deceive in this situation...not the trainer who wondered if some off-sounding behaviour might be a sign to look into things further. It was.
                            Lifestyle coordinator for Zora, Spooky, Wolfgang and Warrior

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                            • Original Poster

                              #54
                              Originally posted by AlexS View Post
                              I'd go to the new trainer if I were your client, as your needs are more important than mine - and I am paying you to meet my needs, not yours. If you would walk away from a horse that was well suited to me because it didn't meet your needs, then it would be the last check you got from me.

                              Surely your client doesn't have all this info, but in time she will, and she will leave you then.
                              You are silly.

                              My client doesn't want to buy a horse with ongoing issues regardless of how "well suited" they were. Not that we were able to really test suitability as the seller & trainer were unwilling to show the horse doing the things they claimed it could do...we were just supposed to "trust them".

                              But then caught the seller in couple lies about the treatments/health of this horse...so moving on!

                              Like Rubgy girl said, it you are going to post your horse's health and vet history, as well as other info on the internet on public forums, you should consider this information public and not lie about it.

                              That is part of helping search for a horse: it isn't just looking at the horse, it is also looking into the verifiable history as much as is possible to try to verify show history, soundness history, vet history and so on.
                              Freeing worms from cans everywhere!

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Sounds like you've resolved it now, but to me the salient point is that you sent a referral to a colleague. Said colleague made overtures to your client. Bad form. No more referrals to that colleague. If that is the normal way they do business they will find referrals drying up all over the place and it will negatively affect their business. Karma catches up to everyone.

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  It's good that you discovered the issues and moved on, but I wouldn't necessarily assume that the hiding of the horse's issues was tied to the trainer's attempt to invite your client to come train with her. There are plenty of very polite and politically savvy trainers who wouldn't have approached your client but who would have been more than happy to sell her a horse with hidden issues.

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                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by AlexS View Post
                                    I'd go to the new trainer if I were your client, as your needs are more important than mine - and I am paying you to meet my needs, not yours. If you would walk away from a horse that was well suited to me because it didn't meet your needs, then it would be the last check you got from me.

                                    Surely your client doesn't have all this info, but in time she will, and she will leave you then.
                                    This pretty much sums it up for me. You sent your client to look at a horse. It wasn't a "referral". It was a shopping trip. For the client. You did take this as being all about you, whether you care to admit it to yourself or not.

                                    Casting stones about what's transpired since, that you've walked away from the horse, blah blah blah, is just adding more to your personal smokescreen.

                                    Ahhhhh, CoTH, the more you change, the more you stay the same.
                                    Originally posted by SmartAlex

                                    Give it up. Many of us CoTHers are trapped at a computer all day with no way out, and we hunt in packs. So far it as all been in good fun. You should be thankful for that.

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