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Talk someone out of buying a horse? WWYD?

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  • #41
    Sounds very much like a kid I know who's not at all in touch with reality... Sigh... I find that if I throw in little tidbits - "wow, my farrier bill has really gone up lately" or "just paid off my vet bill for spring shots - ouch!" She may not seem like she hears it, but I find out later that she does.

    To the poster above who commented on the effects of lack of parental support - I've never thought of it that way but boy, that fits a couple of kids I've known. Thanks for the insight - sorry you had to live it to learn it.

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    • #42
      Originally posted by Hulk View Post
      The old saying.... There are none so blind as those that will not see. Even though its gonna be hard and sit back and watch her self destruct, I am afraid thats what you are gonna have to do. You see the dream world is so much nicer and a better place than reality, so she isnt gonna leave it willingly. Thats just my spin on things.
      Thank you for that, I may just use that old saying, if you don't mind.

      I know some that applies, sadly.

      Some kids and very young adults seem a bit loose with their understanding of reality.
      Everyone has to make their own mistakes, not always our place to keep them from making them and who knows, they may make it work after all.

      The trouble is when it involves others, humans or animals, then maybe we ought to at least try to insert some cold water on those fantasies.

      If she is intent over common sense on getting involved with horses, could you direct her to maybe helping with a local rescue and so see what is really involved while doing some good in a way that should appeal to those kinds of idealistic youngsters?

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      • #43
        Take two big steps back.

        My guess is that the chances of her actually buying a horse are pretty slim as she would need to have a place to keep it and the monthly upkeep sounds beyond her abilities.

        I probably would not sell your saddle as I think it would be best to stay as far away as possible from her and her fantasies.

        You've told her what you think. She can choose to listen . . . or not.
        Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
        EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.

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        • #44
          How is she going to pay for board, farrier, vet bills? Unfortunately, she can't afford a horse, maybe you need to put it on paper and show her the actual costs of owning a horse. Instead of talking her out of the mare, talk to the owner of the mare about it. Sadly most people have to learn the hard way.
          "My treasures do not chink or gleam, they glitter in the sun and neigh at night."

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          • #45
            Sadly, there is not going to be much you can do but step back and watch. I know of someone who got started riding later and has taken on too much too soon with much of her riding activities. She progressed far too quickly and lacks some of the basic foundations of horsemanship that allow her to ride safely. For this, she has taken some nasty spills and been seriously injured. I've watched her turn into a rather unpleasant person because of the frustrations she now has to deal with. I've tried to always be supportive and make suggestions to try to help, but these have often fallen on deaf ears.

            It's frustrating to follow her current project which she avidly blogs about. She got a solid campaigner off the track and this horse should be put up for sainthood for all that he puts up with. It's frustrating for me to stand back and watch her call this horse a jerk or an @$$h0le and post photos/videos demonstrating rough handling and bragging about it. In the blog she admits to being scared of riding him at times and hires friends to come out and ride him for her. She doesn't seem to understand or at least acknowledge that she's overhorsed and overextended. She certainly doesn't want to hear it and to try to broach the subject with her will be met with a dragon tongue and in my case, being a restricted friend on facebook so I can't see the posts where she puts down and berates this poor horse. No big loss for me because that's one less stressor in my life. I do worry about them and don't wish any ill on them. I hope they get things figured out and no one gets hurt in the process.

            I do want to see this person happy and if she keeps on her current course, I don't feel that that is possible. I believe that everyone deserves to find that horse with which they feel safe on and trust to the ends of the earth. And this is what I want for her. It makes me sad to constantly hear her blame the horse, say that she's afraid and not see her take steps to change it. That can't be fun for her or the horse. And horses are too expensive not to have fun with. I have to keep telling myself that I'm not responsible for anyone else's happiness and I can only be honest with them about things as I see them. If it falls on deaf ears, then there's not much else I can do.

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            • #46
              Originally posted by VaqueroToro View Post
              Student loans for college will never touch her hands. If she applies and if approved, the college she's accepted to will receive the funds from the lender to disburse against her accounts receivable with them -- the only money she'll get is either via work study or if she specifically applies for a loan that covers living expenses.

              It sounds like she's big on dreams and slim on reality.
              Maybe this has already been said, but that's not exactly accurate. I mean, yes, my lender DID disburse to my school first, but then they disbursed the remainder to me, which I used for living expenses. It really isn't difficult to get a living expenses loan, at least in graduate programs (maybe it is different for undergrad - I didn't take out loans for undergrad).

              But, in any event, it is a big no no to use loaned money for purposes other than those stated in the loan documents. Good way to get sued.

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              • #47
                I haven't read all the responses, but I just wanted to share my experience. This is kind of how I ended up with Boy. My aunt who had absolutely no experience with horses and had no idea what she was getting into asked me what I thought about fostering a retired racehorse.

                I tried like hell to talk her out of it. I told her it wasn't a good idea and it was going to be expensive. "blah blah blah" was all she heard. Her mind was made up and she was going to do it no matter what I said, so I told her I would help her. She died 3 months later. That was 9 years ago, that horse is the love of my life and I would do it all over again, just to have him in my life.

                Maybe if this girl is hell bent on doing it you could offer to give her a hand when she needs it (if she'll accept it of course).
                Boyle Heights Kid 1998 16.1h OTTB Dark Bay Gelding
                Tinner's Way x Sculpture by Hail to Reason
                "Once you go off track, you never go back!"

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                • #48
                  Save your breath!

                  I've been trying to talk one of my BEST friends out of an unsuitable horse for a while now.

                  Rather than keep banging my head on a wall, I spelled it out for her: "You have always vauled my opinion so this is what I think - and I'm only going to say it once. However, it's your life and you ultimately are responsible for what you decide."

                  And that's that. I will no longer discuss this topic with her and she knows it. And she also knows that if she does buy the horse I will be supportive, but don't want to be involved in any drama if (more like when!) it doesn't work out.

                  It's put some stress on our friendship which I don't care for, so I just had to let it go. Whatever is going to happen will happen - I have my own life and horse to deal with.

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by red mares View Post
                    ^^^^

                    But I wouldn't enable her by giving her a deal on your saddle. If she can't afford it, too bad, so sad.
                    That seems unkind and unhelpful.

                    Look, if the OP is "enabling" a poor, wannabe HO by selling her a used saddle, what difference does it make? the chick being out, say, $700 cash won't change her life to much one way or another. I don't see how being able to buy a saddle is some kind of big "gateway drug" to buying other things that the barn friend can't afford. Heck, she's talking about those big purchases anyway.

                    And "too bad, so sad"? Why that sentiment?
                    The armchair saddler
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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by Phototoxicity View Post
                      She doesn't have any career or school plans, just to take the loans out. I've mentioned how much debt she could be in since she doesn't even have a job or a car right now. She depends on friends to drive her to the barn because her parents don't. I'm currently helping her in a saddle situation more or less. She doesn't have much of her own tack, a saddle being the biggest, and last I checked you usually need one of those when owning a horse. I'm eventually buying a new saddle so I said I'd sell her mine cheaply since the tack store would be too much for her to afford with what little money she actually has. Lately I've also tried talking to her about other horses, but she's set that she can train this horse and make her non-stall aggressive and things like that. I've also mentioned how that won't be entirely possible when she's only able to go to the barn once, maybe twice a week if she's able to get a ride. I'm just afraid that she's going to get way in over her head and she's not thinking things through in the big picture. Buying the horse is the cheap part, the upkeep is the hard part.
                      Well don't worry, the bank will make sure she's actually IN SCHOOL in order to give her the loans!

                      But yes you are right about all of these things. Does her (your) trainer even know she is planning on getting a horse? Does the trainer even have room for a new client purchase? Perhaps that is a good angle to approach this from. I can imagine your trainer may be wise to your friend's immaturity and could help squash this if your friend actually voices her intentions to her.

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                      • #51
                        Originally posted by mvp View Post
                        That seems unkind and unhelpful.

                        Look, if the OP is "enabling" a poor, wannabe HO by selling her a used saddle, what difference does it make? the chick being out, say, $700 cash won't change her life to much one way or another. I don't see how being able to buy a saddle is some kind of big "gateway drug" to buying other things that the barn friend can't afford. Heck, she's talking about those big purchases anyway.

                        And "too bad, so sad"? Why that sentiment?
                        Why the sentiment? Really? OP has said she really doesn't think this is a good idea. Why would anyone in their right mind make it easier for this gal to acquire a horse, and a terribly unsuitable one at that? If she were looking at 20 yr steady Eddie instead of a wild thing to heal with rainbows & butterflys, my opinion might be different.
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                        • #52
                          I don't try to talk people out of buying horses. I've found that it's better to try to steer them towards safer horses when they want a horse because he has a pretty mane or because he's a good color, etc. Of course my efforts have been with adults who generally have the money to afford board and care for a horse.

                          The few times I've dealt with adults who already had too many horses, but who wanted another horse that they could not afford, I just flat out told them they could not afford another horse. It's not the initial cost that is the problem. It's the upkeep and vet bills and farrier bills and board. People don't want to hear that, but you have to tell the girl that because it is true.

                          If you really like this girl, then show her how much it costs you to keep your horse healthy and happy. Reality is something that usually has to be shown to people. Maybe if she sees how much you have to pay out for your horse's monthly upkeep, she'll decide not to get a horse now. I did have one friend who, after unsuccessfully trying to sell her horse when she went to college and grad school, did borrow money through student loans to pay for his board while she was in school. She is now out of school and paying off her student loans, including those which paid for her horse's board. She is a responsible owner. (And she did work off part of the horse's board by feeding at the barn where she boarded several afternoons a week.)

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                          • Original Poster

                            #53
                            Originally posted by tua37516 View Post
                            Well don't worry, the bank will make sure she's actually IN SCHOOL in order to give her the loans!

                            But yes you are right about all of these things. Does her (your) trainer even know she is planning on getting a horse? Does the trainer even have room for a new client purchase? Perhaps that is a good angle to approach this from. I can imagine your trainer may be wise to your friend's immaturity and could help squash this if your friend actually voices her intentions to her.
                            My trainer knows she is trying/saying she is going to buy a horse but tells her not to and etc, but the girl doesn't listen. She has a lot of dreams it seems. My trainer tries to pair her with easygoing horses and says to just lease a school horse and such because they already know their job and have their own tack. The girl wants to advance though and wants her own horse (understandable but I don't think the girl is ready to advance that much when she has a hard enough time jumping cross-rails, let alone anything higher.)

                            I ride at a decent sized lesson barn, the sale horse used to be a very sweet horse and was fine with being ridden, then injured herself from who knows what and went on stall rest for a week or two, then hasn't been ridden since because of being rather aggressive on the ground/stall and the person originally riding her being away. There's plenty of other horses that she could ride and lesson but she wants to ride this mare.

                            Another girl at my barn (girl 2 I'll call her), asked my trainer first about the mare (this girl has experience with green and aggressive horses), and thats when first girl decided to ask my trainer, after girl 2 already asked her. This isn't the first time she's done something like this.

                            I think it's just becoming a bunch of drama and I don't have time for it lol I already have enough expenses and stuff going on. I'll just stick to little things like "Oh wow that's a lot of money" and "This was so much money for my horse." silly things to maybe turn her away. Otherwise I'll be sitting back and just watching from the side.

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                            • Original Poster

                              #54
                              Originally posted by scheherazadetbmare View Post
                              I don't try to talk people out of buying horses. I've found that it's better to try to steer them towards safer horses when they want a horse because he has a pretty mane or because he's a good color, etc. Of course my efforts have been with adults who generally have the money to afford board and care for a horse.

                              The few times I've dealt with adults who already had too many horses, but who wanted another horse that they could not afford, I just flat out told them they could not afford another horse. It's not the initial cost that is the problem. It's the upkeep and vet bills and farrier bills and board. People don't want to hear that, but you have to tell the girl that because it is true.

                              If you really like this girl, then show her how much it costs you to keep your horse healthy and happy. Reality is something that usually has to be shown to people. Maybe if she sees how much you have to pay out for your horse's monthly upkeep, she'll decide not to get a horse now. I did have one friend who, after unsuccessfully trying to sell her horse when she went to college and grad school, did borrow money through student loans to pay for his board while she was in school. She is now out of school and paying off her student loans, including those which paid for her horse's board. She is a responsible owner. (And she did work off part of the horse's board by feeding at the barn where she boarded several afternoons a week.)
                              She's got her head in the clouds I think. I've gone through some expenses with her on how much my horse is. Like board right now is $750 (I plan on moving barns soon because it's just getting to be a lot), shoes are about $180, then my ponies vet bills which vary. I don't think she really thinks too far ahead about money or that these payments are monthly. Maybe I'll have to bring my bank statement in and show her all his bills.

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                              • Original Poster

                                #55
                                Originally posted by red mares View Post
                                Why the sentiment? Really? OP has said she really doesn't think this is a good idea. Why would anyone in their right mind make it easier for this gal to acquire a horse, and a terribly unsuitable one at that? If she were looking at 20 yr steady Eddie instead of a wild thing to heal with rainbows & butterflys, my opinion might be different.
                                I wanted to sell her my saddle because I do feel bad that she doesn't have supportive parents and does want to buy herself a saddle and work towards her own tack. That will at least keep her working towards something more affordable and not with her head so far in the clouds. Granted I've had my saddle for 6-7 years and it's just a plain collegiate, nothing spectacular to be sold (great condition though.) Maybe she'll see how hard it is to just save for a saddle before seeing how it is to save for a horses board every month. This is just my opinion, I don't actually think she'll be able to buy it with her track record of money and purchasing things.

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                                • #56
                                  I may have missed this somewhere..

                                  But no job and no parental support. How will the board, farrier, vet, and other horsey needs will get paid?

                                  As being a teenager once with big ideas in my head, that's all these probably are...ideas and dreams. When reality comes sinking in on what the cost is and with no job or support.... I would think she may realize she has a problem.

                                  Maybe you can suggest she try to lease one of these project horses. That may give her a good taste of what she would be up against!

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Lordy, Forum is misbehaving, stacking ads over text and skipping around today for some reason.

                                    I had a reply typed but it went poof.

                                    Why not go ahead and sell her the saddle but do NOT offer to take any payments, she pays full price and you can offer to hold it for her while she saves her money up, but she can't use it until it's paid for. That's not rude or butting in where you should not at all.

                                    Go easy on the "lack of parental support" here too. They probably just cannot afford it, mine couldn't. Only so many dollars in many families and too many places they could go, something has to give and an expensive horse hobby would be one of the last in line. She is still living at home, eating, not paying rent and has transportation so is doing better then I was at the same age if she is riding at all.

                                    Have an idea trainer is no way going to sell this unsuitable horse to a minor with no money so just let it work itself out. Not worth your angst other then being helpful as is appropriate in a casual way.
                                    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

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                                    • #58
                                      IF she is actually interested in helping to rehab horses, a great way for her to do the work without paying the money would be to volunteer at a reputable rescue. That way, she is supervised and in a mentoring environment (at a reputable rescue) where she would be working at her skill set instead of over her head. She can learn just how much time and effort goes into working with horses who need retraining, from all the day-to-day care tasks to the slow, steady process of quality rehab work. Of course, she might not really be interested in the slow, steady, not-so-dramatic side of things, but in theory, it would be a good way for her to learn before taking the plunge herself. And she would be helping her equine community.

                                      You've gotten some good input on this thread, and I hope things work out for her safety and your sanity
                                      Sarah K. Andrew | Twitter | Blog | Horses & Hope calendar | Flickr | Instagram

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                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by gottagrey View Post
                                        First butt in about taking out a student loan to get a horse - hello that's OUR Tax money and last I heard it wasn't to rehab a horse... at least enroll in an equine college or something; but I'm not working my tosh off so some 17 y/o can fulfl some fantasy about rehabbing a horse on my tax dime. Other than that there's not much you can say or do does she have a clue about monthly expenses or is that part of "her student loan"
                                        Can you please explain how my student loans get paid out of your tax money?

                                        Because I currently do not seem to be enrolled in that plan.
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                                        • Original Poster

                                          #60
                                          I have a lesson with her tomorrow, so I will try and keep some of you updated about anything new that might happen. She's already texted me about the saddle, I told her I won't be selling it until June so it gives her time to save her money. Hopefully she actually saves!

                                          As far as parental support her parents are divorced and her step-dad apparently hates her and all other sorts of drama. I try to stay as far away from the situation as possible. Not getting involved. But as far as what she tells me (two sides to everything but I'll just tell you hers) is that first her dad was going to buy her a saddle, then he didn't, then they were going to buy her one horse, and they never did, and then she hates them and they hate her and she was kicked out and living with her boyfriend, etc etc.

                                          I wish this sport came with less drama :P

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