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Ahhh... the gift horse.... Now what.

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  • #21
    I guess it must vary according to which state you are in and maybe registry?
    How do you prove ownership without a bill of sale - and in my state Brand Inspection?
    "When life gives you scurvy, make lemonade."

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    • #22
      Them dangling this "gift" over your head, especially given the circumstances under which you needed a new horse is categorically uncool.

      I'm sorry, OP. However you work it out, I'm sorry you are going through this.
      "Aye God, Woodrow..."

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      • #23
        Originally posted by Halt Near X View Post
        Registering the horse in the OP's name won't prove ownership. If things really go downhill, it will just be money down the drain.

        The only thing that will prove ownership is a bill of sale.
        But it won't disapprove ownership either. If the OP has paid the stud fee and the registration, and has custody of the horse that goes along way. The AHSA registration has to signed off by the previous owner. If the folks who gave the OP the horse wanted it back because she moved to another barn, they would have to explain why they signed over ownership on the papers.
        Visit my Spoonflower shop

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        • #24
          Originally posted by BEARCAT View Post
          I guess it must vary according to which state you are in and maybe registry?
          How do you prove ownership without a bill of sale - and in my state Brand Inspection?
          I doubt it. Even the AQHA says their registration papers don't prove ownership. For some explanation of why, there's this article, written by a lawyer

          If you don't have a BOS, you're going to have to fight it out in court.

          Originally posted by red mares View Post
          But it won't disapprove ownership either. If the OP has paid the stud fee and the registration, and has custody of the horse that goes along way. The AHSA registration has to signed off by the previous owner. If the folks who gave the OP the horse wanted it back because she moved to another barn, they would have to explain why they signed over ownership on the papers.
          If she already has the papers with the old owner's signature on it, is spending money to submit them to the registry going to make her case any stronger? I have no idea. If things start going in that direction, the OP needs to get advice from a lawyer, not COTH, if she wants to keep the horse.
          Halt Near X | Horse Bloggers - Blog Directory

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          • #25
            Another point of view:

            We all say things to our good friends that in the end probably were not the best things to say. Based on real feelings but the words we blurt out just do not say what we wanted them to say.

            To me it sounds like friend just wants a friend to ride with and share horses and did one of the poor taste blurting things that just sounds so wrong but has some bases in fact.

            Friend got you a horse so friend would have you to ride with. That is not horrible. It is probably true. They knew you were sad about losing your horse and a new horse helped that and helped friend have a riding buddy.
            Friend is probably tired of driving so far to see you and her colt. Who can blame her. We all feel that way sometimes. Not the OPs fault, just a fact.

            I think the OP just needs to have a good friend to friend conversation. Tell friend that she too wants to ride together but at this point the horse's issues require her to have the horse closer to home so she can continue the daily care. Having the horse closer to home does not mean the OP does not want to be with friend anymore. Just what is necessary for now.
            Add in the willingness to travel to where friend boards from time to time to help with colt and as soon as the OPs horse is sound for real work what barn he is boarded at can be revisited.

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            • #26
              Wise words, trubandloki. In my response I jumped straight to "All-Out Conflict."
              I like your approach better.

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              • #27
                I think trubiandloki's approach is a good one. We often forget that there's another perspective. Maybe friend didn't realize how it sounded. I would sit down and have a long chat with them. Try not to get defensive and stay calm and just explain where you are in your life right now. Just because you board him somewhere else doesn't mean you can't still ride together sometimes. It's not like you could really be riding buddies right now anyway-you're not riding! So see if some quality time helping her with her horse (IF that is something you can do without feeling even more totally stressed) and maybe revisit at some point in the future.

                If you move him to the barn of her choice you won't be happy. It will be VERY easy to resent her and blame her for that, which would cause even more strain on this relationship.

                This is all assuming your friend really meant well. If they're just being jerkwads then you might have to sit down with them and say "Sign a bill of sale or take your horse back." Hopefully it won't come to that-definitely sit down and try to talk to them first. Just decide before you go into the conversation what you're willing to come up with and have some contingency plans. If push comes to shove you might have to make it very clear what you want and what you expect. In order to do that, you need to have thought it through and know what you can handle putting up with.

                Good luck, OP. Please keep us posted! And remember-riding is supposed to be fun and enjoyable for YOU, not for you and everyone who decides it's your job to please them.

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                • #28
                  Say No then tell her - great I'd love to ride with you and help with your colt - but that means you'll need to move him to MY barn, as that barn is unsafe and unacceptable (to me).

                  And as already stated - get ownership papers and make certain they understand (nicely) that you will not allow them to manipulate you by holding a "GIFT" over your head.
                  Now in Kentucky

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                  • #29
                    You know the thing that strikes me, no matter how nice this horse is, he is currently recovering from a "major tendon injury"? IMHO they couldn't sell that horse in this market, and tendon injuries can be tricky - take a long time to heal, and then very careful rehab, and even then chance of relapse - not trying to jinx you with the horse, but IMO, the aren't really giving you that much of a "gift" in this case! You are taking an injured horse off their feed bill & getting them out of all the work of rehab! Still a nice deal for you if you like the horse, but seriously, not much of a "gift" when considering what his value would be on the open market!

                    All that said, I'm easy going & try to avoid conflict if I can - if you value the friendship, try to get them to see things from your point of view in a nice way.

                    If they put their feet in the mud tho, you have every right to get as tough as posters above have recommended, especially considering this injured horse isn't really much of a "gift" IMHO!

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                    • #30
                      Blair, take him to the barn that makes it the easiest for YOU to oversee his care. Simply explain to them that the horse is seriously injured, requires 7 day per week handwalking, and will do for the foreseeable future, and "you wouldn't be a good owner" if you didn't ensure he got the best possible care. Realistically, you wouldn't be riding with your friend anyway at any point for at LEAST a year.

                      The friend may be awesome but it sure sounds like the SO is a real sh*tbag. If you let the two of them start manipulating you now, you are right, they WILL do it for the next 20 years. Don't even let them start.

                      I know only too well how overwhelmed you are. I have soooooooooo been there & done that. Having a horse on long-term stall rest when you work a day job and have family commitments is a real life-stresser. The reality is, you need to get these people OUT of your and your horse's "bidness"!

                      I'm not even going to go there on the bill of sale, b/c quite frankly had it been me in your position and someone said that, that horse would have been tied to a gate in his front yard within 24 hours. I know you like the horse, but in the monetary sense he is only worth meat value at the moment, and as Arcadien points out, there's no real guarantee he will EVER be a sound horse. So this might be a good opportunity to decide whether he really is a horse you can commit to for *potentially* a lifetime of this level of care. There is an overabundance of cool horses looking for great homes right now. #justsaying

                      Also, as the Old Cynical Mean B*tch that I am, I can't help wondering how long it's going to be before the breeder files collection proceedings against Friend and SO on the unpaid portion of the stud fee... and possibly tries to repossess the horse in lieu of payment... So I do agree w/ the others; if it's possible, PAY the balance of the stud fee and get a WRITTEN receipt from the breeder with YOUR name on it. Present a COPY of the paid receipt to Friend/SO and ask for a bill of sale for $1.00. GET these people out of your bidness!!!

                      If you are not in a position to do that right away, then DO be sure to get and keep receipts for *every* expenditure related to the horse, including board. Remember that if (God forbid) this situation ever went to court, it doesn't matter to the judge what actually *happened*, it only matters what you can *prove*. They want to see *paper* and they want to see *dollar amounts*. So get and keep receipts for board, bandages, meds, extra charges for handwalking, farriery, mileage to/from the barn, absolutely everything, and keep a record of the number of hours YOU spend handwalking every week. That way, if the SO ever hurls any 'tude at you again, you can hand him a big huge notebook full of receipts and say "Sure, you can have him back when I get a certified or bank check for $x..."

                      Get them out of your bidness as quick as you can. {{Hugs}} I'm so sorry this is happening.
                      "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

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                      • #31
                        Free things usually come with either costs or strings. And free horses can be the most expensive in one way or the other.

                        Get your friend to move to the other barn with you. Tell her you really don't like her barn and why. Show her the new barn. If the cost is the same and it's nicer and not that much out of the way, where's the problem?

                        Tell the connections that you need some kind of proof of ownership for the simple reason you want to insure the horse before you go any further.

                        It's situations like this that show you who your friends really are.
                        Groom to trainer: "Where's the glamour? You promised me glamour!"

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Are you sure you even want this horse?

                          I read your post again and it sounds like this horse comes with too many problems. I would kindly pass on this one. It sounds like they are just trying to get rid of their problems by giving you an unsound unregistered horse that requires intensive care. So you have to deal with the healing and the financial burden and the extra time it takes to care for him.

                          Honestly, they don't sound like great friends to me.

                          There are plenty of nice SOUND horses out there. It sounds like the time is not right now for you to take on another horse anyway. Take care of yourself first!

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                          • #33
                            Originally posted by War Admiral View Post
                            Also, as the Old Cynical Mean B*tch that I am, I can't help wondering how long it's going to be before the breeder files collection proceedings against Friend and SO on the unpaid portion of the stud fee... and possibly tries to repossess the horse in lieu of payment... So I do agree w/ the others; if it's possible, PAY the balance of the stud fee and get a WRITTEN receipt from the breeder with YOUR name on it. Present a COPY of the paid receipt to Friend/SO and ask for a bill of sale for $1.00. GET these people out of your bidness!!!
                            I agree with War Admiral - this is a 17.2 hand horse (sorry don't know how old) but why hasn't the stud fee been paid? Makes these "friends" look not so great in my mind. They give you a horse they haven't paid for yet and now want limitations on what you do with him?

                            Nancy!

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