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Action needed on horse slaughter bills!!

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  • #41
    And another little tidbit.......

    HORSE MEAT GOES UNTESTED DESPITE W. NILE OUTBREAK
    Experts differ on virus' ability to be passed to others
    Denver Post, Diedtra Henderson, October 13, 2003

    Gardner - Tom Zieber ensures that the horse meat fed to wolves at the
    Mission: Wolf refuge is free of the euthanasia drugs that, in the past, left
    two wolves in comas.

    But as the nation reels from its worst outbreak of West Nile, a virus that
    struck Colorado horses as easily as it did humans, there's no guarantee the
    meat is free of that scourge.

    Not at Colorado's Mission: Wolf.

    Not in European and Japanese butcher shops that offer American horse meat to
    connoisseurs who covet the low-fat meat and recoil at the risk that mad cow
    lingers in Europe.

    Not at wild animal parks across the nation, including the Denver Zoo, that
    feed meat-eaters fresh, frozen horse meat that's been ground and laced with
    vitamins - but never tested for West Nile.

    At least 594 horses in Colorado were infected with West Nile this year.
    Across the nation, at least 2,767 horses were infected in 38 states. The
    numbers are thought to be underestimates, since owners have balked at paying
    for diagnostic tests.

    Each year, 42,000 to 62,000 pounds of American horse meat head to
    international markets. Another 4 million pounds a year are processed for
    domestic use by Central Nebraska Packing in North Platte, Neb., which
    supplies horse meat to 85 percent of the nation's zoos.

    Not a single pound is tested for West Nile.

    Max Coats, assistant deputy director for animal health programs at Texas
    Animal Health Commission, says the risk that humans will contract the virus
    from infected horse meat is not high.

    "The horse is an accidental host for West Nile. They can't generate enough
    viremia to infect a mosquito," he said.

    Since last spring, however, U.S. Department of Agriculture inspectors have
    visually examined horses slated for slaughter at Beltex Corp. and Dallas
    Crown Inc., the two remaining American slaughterhouses that handle horse
    meat for human consumption.

    The veterinarians are on the alert for drunken, uncoordinated movements,
    listlessness, partial paralysis and "downer" horses that arrive for
    slaughter already dead.

    When a horse meets those criteria and is rejected for slaughter, another arm
    of the USDA, the Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service, is to be
    alerted. That hasn't yet happened since the directive was issued in April,
    said Steven Cohen, senior press officer for USDA's Food Safety and
    Inspection Service.

    But visual inspection runs the risk of missing 9 out of 10 West
    Nile-infected horses because the majority show no signs of sickness. And
    parts of the horse - such as the brain - carry enough virus to potentially
    spread infection.

    So says a Colorado State University researcher who has experimentally
    infected a Noah's Ark of animals to determine which give and take West Nile
    from the mosquitoes that spread the disease.

    Although spreading West Nile through diet is possible, the lion's share of
    infections in the veterinary realm are due to bites from tainted mosquitoes,
    said Rich Bowen, a professor of biomedical sciences at CSU.

    Still, "the assumption is it's all mosquito-borne. Maybe it's not," Bowen
    said.

    The USDA stands by its practices. "According to APHIS, there is no evidence
    of any animal becoming infected through meat," Cohen said.

    A horse is a dead-end host for West Nile, said Lloyd Woodward, general
    manager of Central Nebraska Packing, which also doesn't test for West Nile.
    "In other words, it's not passed on from the horses to humans, from the
    horse to any other thing."

    But animals can eat their way into a West Nile infection, Bowen and other
    researchers confirmed. Feed a house cat a mouse infected with West Nile and
    the cat becomes infected. Same goes for dogs, raptors and farm-raised
    alligators.

    It's unclear whether all West Nile-tainted meat is equal.

    Bowen and another researcher, Mike Bunning, infected alligators in the
    Center for Disease Control and Prevention's Fort Collins lab by needle stick
    and by feeding them tainted mice.

    Mice, like horses, carry high West Nile virus loads in their brains. A
    single tainted mouse carries a massive West Nile wallop. Ounce for ounce, a
    massive horse brain could deliver a similarly sized dose of West Nile, Bowen
    said.

    No one's done that experiment. And a number of subtleties can skew West Nile
    levels - more of the virus lingers in frozen horse meat, less in
    refrigerated meat, Bunning said. West Nile disappears when meat is cooked.

    "It's a pretty labile little virus. Any kind of cooking, even rare cooking,
    would destroy the virus," Bowen said.

    At Mission: Wolf, Zieber worries about the risk of West Nile. Donated elk,
    for instance, are tested for chronic wasting disease. For now, he has little
    option other than having horse owners sign release forms.

    "We have to go on the owner's word."

    Comment


    • #42
      Okay, I already have this posted, but been as how you all are posting reasons:

      Proverbs 12:10 says "The righteous one is caring for the soul of his domestic animal, but the mercies of the wicked ones are cruel."

      Also, I did look up that scripture and it does state that only cloven hooved are "acceptable" (exept pigs). Of course, this is only for people who believe in the Bible.

      Comment


      • #43
        In the two years since that was written tests haven't shown any horse meat from a case of WN will infect anything.
        Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

        Comment


        • #44
          Thanks Nettiemaria, I believe in it.

          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nettiemaria:
          Okay, I already have this posted, but been as how you all are posting reasons:

          Proverbs 12:10 says "The righteous one is caring for the soul of his domestic animal, but the mercies of the wicked ones are cruel."

          Also, I did look up that scripture and it does state that only cloven hooved are "acceptable" (exept pigs). Of course, this is only for people who believe in the Bible. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

          And when Jesus returns it will be on a white horse and in glory. Remember He entered Jerusalum on an unbroken donkey which bear a cross on their backs.

          Comment


          • #45
            It blows me away when people argue that horses are no different than any other livestock.
            Do they not recognize how often horses are the subject of paintings, sculptures, poetry, literature, etc? I myself have a reproduction of the Tang Horse sculpture. I can guarantee the only place you might find a Tang Pig is in the barbeque chapter of a really bad cook book.

            There must be something different about horses, or so many great artists through the centuries would not have paid homage to them in so many ways.

            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Susan P:
            Thanks Nettiemaria, I believe in it.

            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nettiemaria:
            Okay, I already have this posted, but been as how you all are posting reasons:

            Proverbs 12:10 says "The righteous one is caring for the soul of his domestic animal, but the mercies of the wicked ones are cruel."

            Also, I did look up that scripture and it does state that only cloven hooved are "acceptable" (exept pigs). Of course, this is only for people who believe in the Bible. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

            And when Jesus returns it will be on a white horse and in glory. Remember He entered Jerusalum on an unbroken donkey which bear a cross on their backs. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
            DON'T MAKE ME COME DOWN THERE!!! - God

            Comment


            • #46
              Uh, actually Lildunhorse, while I certainly drooled over the polychromed glazed Tang ceramic horses in the Shanghai Museum (after all, the Tang was a very horsey dynasty), a quick perusal of their bronze, seal, and jade galleries reveal - surprise! - plenty of livestock memorialized in the form of all sorts of intricately wrought bronze vessels, jade carvings, and chops. And in later dynasties, fish proved a much more popular subject than equines. Here is a pretty cool wine vessel - an ox. This is one of my favorite bronzes. It's ... a bull! Plenty of lowly beasts have been featured in art. They were part of the "every day" for most people. Just like horses were every day things for the Tang dynasty. The bronzes I linked to are from early periods, but such art continues through the centures.

              Honestly, while there are plenty of good arguments for anti-slaughter, making statements about art, the Bible, or trichinosis (which people contract far more commonly through eating undercooked pork, and can also be contracted through eating undercooked game meats) aren't really furthering the cause.

              Comment


              • #47
                Well, the statement was never really intended to further the cause.
                I'm not a traveled individual, so I tend to think locally, not globally.
                Your point is well taken and I will certainly be careful about such observations in the future.
                I was actually reacting to a rather heated discussion on another list that basically concluded with the opinion that horses are just cows with long legs. It was probably not a good idea to carry it over to this discussion.

                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Albion:
                Uh, actually Lildunhorse, while I certainly drooled over the polychromed glazed Tang ceramic horses in the Shanghai Museum (after all, the Tang was a very horsey dynasty), a quick perusal of their bronze, seal, and jade galleries reveal - surprise! - plenty of livestock memorialized in the form of all sorts of intricately wrought bronze vessels, jade carvings, and chops. And in later dynasties, fish proved a much more popular subject than equines. Here is a pretty cool wine vessel - an ox. This is one of my favorite bronzes. It's ... a bull! Plenty of lowly beasts have been featured in art. They were part of the "every day" for most people. Just like horses were every day things for the Tang dynasty. The bronzes I linked to are from early periods, but such art continues through the centures.

                Honestly, while there are plenty of good arguments for anti-slaughter, making statements about art, the Bible, or trichinosis (which people contract far more commonly through eating undercooked pork, and can also be contracted through eating undercooked game meats) aren't really furthering the cause. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
                DON'T MAKE ME COME DOWN THERE!!! - God

                Comment


                • #48
                  Well! Pardeone!

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Well, one of the arguments - correct me if I'm wrong - against slaughter of horses is that they're not like other livestock. You used the example of art as showing horses having a different relationship to humans (specifically Tang dynasty ceramics, no?) - "I can guarantee the only place you might find a Tang Pig is in the barbeque chapter of a really bad cook book" - which is just flat out wrong. Sorry, don't have any of my Tang ceramics books handy, they're all packed up, but artistic representation of lowly livestock has a very, VERY long history.

                    Roll your eyes all you want nettiemaria - I'm not pro-slaughter, but I think if you're going to make arguments for banning it, you need arguments a hell of a lot stronger than "Well, the Bible says ..." and "Well, artists like horses better ..." and "People got trichinosis eating horse."

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Well (again), I was making an observation of what the Bible says. It is a fact, and I was simply restating it. Just found it today actually. Just thought I would share what I had found, because I thought it was interesting. So what if I added on the arguments of whether or not people should eat horsemeat. Isn't that what this is for - for discussion?
                      I have plenty of arguments, as does Lildunhorse, all of which are factual and objective, from the own government's own records!
                      I am not planning on USING it to write to the President or Congress, just thought it was neat. Also, wanted to inform some people whose relegions stem from the Bible, that it is in there - regarding how we should treat them, and that they do have souls (yeah, even cows - so there [oh, what's that a contradiction (to something someone else said) (but maybe we could somehow tie it in to what I said)- should I bracket it now for your ease in responding!). Anyway, some Christians I have found will argue until they are blue in the face whether or not animals have souls.
                      But there it is - right there in the Bible!
                      It also states that all of the animals belong to God and we are to only eat them if we are starving (again) (which I am right now by the way). I also found that it stated their blood will be on our hands, even the ones with the cloven hooves and as Lildunhorse said chew curd, cud, other cows or whatever the heck that was, that we are "allowed" to eat.

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by county:
                        In the two years since that was written tests haven't shown any horse meat from a case of WN will infect anything. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                        And can you point us in the direction of these tests? Inquiring minds on both sides of this issue may want to see them.

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Let me qualify my statement. The only place one might find a Tang Pig in the average American household...
                          I am, after all, only an averageAmerican.

                          [QUOTE]Originally posted by Albion:
                          Well, one of the arguments - correct me if I'm wrong - against slaughter of horses is that they're not like other livestock. You used the example of art as showing horses having a different relationship to humans (specifically Tang dynasty ceramics, no?) - "I can guarantee the only place you might find a Tang Pig is in the barbeque chapter of a really bad cook book" - which is just flat out wrong.
                          DON'T MAKE ME COME DOWN THERE!!! - God

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Albion:
                            Honestly, while there are plenty of good arguments for anti-slaughter, making statements about art, the Bible, or trichinosis (which people contract far more commonly through eating undercooked pork, and can also be contracted through eating undercooked game meats) aren't really furthering the cause. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                            Ah, yes, of course you can. I was merely pointing out to county that there are some articles online in regards to tainted horse meat.

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              County, I agree with echo on the medications. And when I attended the so call unwanted horse Summit, one of the questions that was ask to Dr. Cordes was about residue testing. Dr. Cordes said that the US DOES NOT do any residue testing on horse meat because we do not eat it. If you know of any test that Dr. Cordes is not aware of please point be in that direction so I can call him and discuss them with him. Or you can call Dr. Cordes and ask him yourself. His phone # is301-734-3279. Dr. Cordes is a very easy person to talk to. You should not tell people that we test the meat when we do not. You need to make some calls to USDA, your state animal industry, you need to research you info a little better.

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                There are many independent studies that have been done regarding drug resuidue, West Nile, differant wormers etc. none by the USDA nor regonized by such. But your 100% right the USDA hasn't done any on the subject so they won't say one way or the other so they can't say its unsafe to eat. I'll go by the consumers and there health inspections to my knowledge there have been no reports of people eating horse meat that have dyed or gotten sick.

                                However there have been many cases where the opposite has happened with meat inspected by the USDA and consumed in the U.S. Each person has to decide for themselves which group they trust with their health. Personally I rarely eat any meat I don't raise and process myself. The USDA just doesn't have a good enough track record that I trust them.
                                Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  There have been hundreds reported sick from eating horsemeat, including the outbreaks from trichinosis and African sickness.
                                  When someone is sick from food poisioning they may or may not have the food available to test and I have never heard of them testing for illegal chemical residues. I have in the past searched for the exact sampling plan of chemical residue testing and have not been able to find exactly how many are tested. I'll have to request it.
                                  Amazingly FSIS de-regulated much of the meat inspection to the facilities in 1998. like the fox watching the hen house.
                                  http://www.safetables.org/Policy_&_Outreach/Public_Comm..._slghtr_09_1998.html
                                  The livestock slaughter inspection model, created by FSIS, is completely unacceptable to consumers by creating an industry self-policing environment. It fails to meet any definition of "carcass-by-carcass" inspection by government employees. At no point on this model does FSIS look at each and every animal or carcass. In this model, ALL ante mortem and post mortem functions are performed by plant employees, with FSIS inspectors operating strictly as verifiers and overseers.

                                  In addition, the final rail has been completely removed. Carcasses will be allowed into the cooler without a government inspector looking to see if there is visible feces on the carcass. Instead, verification of the zero tolerance standard will be done by CHECKING 10% OF THE CARCASSES IN THE COOLER WHERE CARCASSES ARE ALL TOUCHING AND POSSIBLY CROSS-CONTAMINATING EACH OTHER.

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Trichinosis is caused from poor preperation most common with pork. Not because its horse meat although if prepared poorly it certainly can be in horse meat.
                                    Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      My meaning being Trichiosis has nothing to do with people getting sick or dying from drugs in the meat.
                                      Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        I have a friend who's looking for HR 503 signatures:

                                        http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/878346763

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          food poisioning can be deadly. But allowing animals into the food chain for humans that has drugs like bute used on them should be a crime. I don't think that cows that we raise for food are allowed to have that used on them. And I don't think that we will see the results of meat consumed by people that contain these residues for years to come. Cancer causing drugs take years to show their death sentences. And today so many drug that state DO NOT USE ON FOOD ANIMAL are used on horses. In the 60's & 70's I don't remember using many drugs on our horses. We fed them oats & hay. Wormed and Vitamins. Had a farriers out. We never used fly spay and all of the vacinations. So maybe horse meat was safer to consume back them. Oh by the way I never knew that they slaughtered horses until I was 41 and started to drive truck. I met a girl from Quebec and that is how I found out. I went back an asked my parents and horsey friends if I missed something growing up. But I quess not, they weren't aware of horse slaughter either. My mother (75) raised on a farm said her dad was a big horse man. They used horses to plow fields, pull carts. So I am not surprised that a lot people are not aware of horse slaughter. People from my parents generation ( more use of horses, more slaughter plants) weren't aware either. And I have been asking people all over the country for years, they didn't know either. I have signs on my Semi about horse slaughter and am ask everyday WHO EATS HORSE MEAT & WHEN DID WE START SLAUGHTERING HORSES? So I have been doing my own personal survey for yrs. & the PEOPLE OF AMERICA DO NOT WANT THEIR HORSES SLAUGHTERED FOR MEAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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