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Article: Nokota horses don't have enough hay to make it to summer.

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  • Article: Nokota horses don't have enough hay to make it to summer.

    http://interact.stltoday.com/pr/non-...43013011712763

    The Nokota horses do not have enough hay to get through to summer.

  • #2
    All I can say is . That's really sad to think that such an old breed may be suffering such a fate.

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      I have bought 3 of these horses and they steal your heart. They are exceptionally puppylike, very sensitive.

      Originally posted by MonterStables View Post
      All I can say is . That's really sad to think that such an old breed may be suffering such a fate.

      Comment


      • #4
        You can donate here:
        http://www.nokotahorse.org/cms/

        I just gave $15, thinking I know it's not much but any bit must help! (The minimum selection looks like $50, but then you can just type in any other amount you want.)

        Comment


        • #5
          This is the first time I have ever posted anything like this, but... I cannot get my head around the idea of breeding mustangs that aren't even DNA typed for specific gene pools when we have somewhere around 50,000 languishing in holding pens. I did read the rationale given for this breeding but I, for one, don't buy it.

          The entire horse population is in trouble, all breeds, ages, sexes, discipline, etc. The economy caused the bottom to drop out of the horse market everywhere. I simply cannot support breeding horses based on provenance alone; not with the number of horses shipping to slaughter right now; not with the situation facing horses in the wild right now. Frankly this seems awfully close to backyard breeding to me. There are an awful lot of these "Nakota" or "Spanish Colonial" horses that are poorly conformed and should not be in anyone's breeding program regardless of who their ancestors belonged to. A sanctuary with NO breeding I could support but not a program promoting breeding.

          There are herds in the wild that the BLM is systematically decimating that have been DNA typed confirming rare Spanish bloodlines giving scientific support for linking them to the horses brought here by European explorers. I see the value of preserving these herds in the wild, not breeding them. How about garnering some additional support to preserve the herds of wild horses that we have?
          "The captive bolt is not a proper tool for slaughter of equids they regain consciousness 30 seconds after being struck fully aware they are being vivisected." Dr Friedlander DVM & frmr Chief USDA Insp

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Courtney, I think it's great to give $15 because if enough people do that they will have enough.

            Originally posted by Courtney210 View Post
            You can donate here:
            http://www.nokotahorse.org/cms/

            I just gave $15, thinking I know it's not much but any bit must help! (The minimum selection looks like $50, but then you can just type in any other amount you want.)

            Comment


            • #7
              I agree with everything Ptownevt said - Does this conservatory have any sort of population control measures in place - or are they just letting the horses reproduce even though they have now ended up in a place where they only have a weeks worth of hay left?

              he Conservancy owns 118 horses, representing the rarest of these old bloodlines. In their private herds, Frank and Leo each own approximately 175 additional horses
              Whoa - at least 468 horses? That is a lot of horses to vaccinate, mouths to feed, feet to trim, stallions to geld.. etc etc.

              So do the personal horses have hay left? Yet
              Conservancy has a little over a week’s worth of hay left
              - or....are "donations" going to "personal" horses as well?
              APPSOLUTE CHOCKLATE - Photo by Kathy Colman

              Comment


              • #8
                I'll say it again: take the mustangs off the US Govt. payroll and privatize the breed into a regsitry. There's NO reason they should be supoorted by tax payers...and barely being supported at that.

                (ETA)Just realized this is a private operation. My goodness.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  So why do you ASSUME that they are not DNA tested. One of mine was used for a DNA test, they also have been thoroughly researched by Harvard Professor and Researcher Dr. Castle McLaughlin. She is also an associate curator in anthropology for the Peabody Museum. She has the creds to testify that these are rare and unique horses with an important historic heritage. She is a VP of the Nokota Horse Conservancy and their official historian. She has been honored by the previous historian of the Theodore Roosevelt National Park who has also recognized the important heritage of these horses. Once they are gone it will be too late to save them. If you don't breed them they go extinct. The purpose of the NHC is preservation. There are few horses owned by the NHC, maybe 200, not sure the number.

                  They do deserve to survive as a breed or phenotype. www.nokotahorse.org

                  Originally posted by ptownevt View Post
                  This is the first time I have ever posted anything like this, but... I cannot get my head around the idea of breeding mustangs that aren't even DNA typed for specific gene pools when we have somewhere around 50,000 languishing in holding pens. I did read the rationale given for this breeding but I, for one, don't buy it.

                  The entire horse population is in trouble, all breeds, ages, sexes, discipline, etc. The economy caused the bottom to drop out of the horse market everywhere. I simply cannot support breeding horses based on provenance alone; not with the number of horses shipping to slaughter right now; not with the situation facing horses in the wild right now. Frankly this seems awfully close to backyard breeding to me. There are an awful lot of these "Nakota" or "Spanish Colonial" horses that are poorly conformed and should not be in anyone's breeding program regardless of who their ancestors belonged to. A sanctuary with NO breeding I could support but not a program promoting breeding.

                  There are herds in the wild that the BLM is systematically decimating that have been DNA typed confirming rare Spanish bloodlines giving scientific support for linking them to the horses brought here by European explorers. I see the value of preserving these herds in the wild, not breeding them. How about garnering some additional support to preserve the herds of wild horses that we have?

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Nokota horses are not mustangs.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I edited. I see now that they are a private org. It's disturbing that anyone has to feed that many horses, still.

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        They breed to preserve enough of the right bloodlines with good gene pool. It's very selective and these are knowledgeable breeders, overqualified to recognize good stock but mostly to preserve the original horse.

                        Originally posted by Appsolute View Post
                        I agree with everything Ptownevt said - Does this conservatory have any sort of population control measures in place - or are they just letting the horses reproduce even though they have now ended up in a place where they only have a weeks worth of hay left?



                        Whoa - at least 468 horses? That is a lot of horses to vaccinate, mouths to feed, feet to trim, stallions to geld.. etc etc.

                        So do the personal horses have hay left? Yet - or....are "donations" going to "personal" horses as well?

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          https://www.peabody.harvard.edu/node/686
                          Here is the ledger that Castle McLaughlin has on display at the Peabody Museum of Harvard.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Susan P View Post
                            They breed to preserve enough of the right bloodlines with good gene pool. It's very selective and these are knowledgeable breeders, overqualified to recognize good stock but mostly to preserve the original horse.
                            Sounds to me like they're not just breeding willy nilly like the mustangs do. I mean, I've read about this a little bit in the various horse breed books that I have and it never sounds like they're being irresponsible about breeding. Its funny because there is a horse on the for sale page that is for sale for 10k I think that was fourth at Dressage At Devon. He's pretty good looking stallion, and call me silly, but if he's performing at that kind of event at all, he's got to be nice!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Why do most of them that are listed for sale say "cross" ?

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Here's the thing, though (and I don't mean to dissuade any donors): when hay supply is non-existent in your vicinity, and you already have over 450 horses, you suspend the breeding operations for a little while, at least until the food supply has stabilized in terms of steady availability. You can still preserve the bloodlines; a year or a few won't matter.

                                Just making a point - it is entirely possible that the Conservancy has already taken this measure.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Susan P View Post
                                  Nokota horses are not mustangs.
                                  Can you explain this? What makes them "not mustangs" instead of of a substrain of mustangs like say, the Kigers? (Although I guess the Kigers are a lot "purer" whereas it sounds like Nokotas have all sorts of mixes between feral and ranch horses?)


                                  (Just interested, not snarky )
                                  "When life gives you scurvy, make lemonade."

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    450+ horses to feed - with out a means for feeding them is not acceptable, no matter how special the bloodlines are.

                                    http://www.nokotahorse.org/cms/the-nhc.html

                                    What We Do
                                    The Nokota® Horse Conservancy exists to preserve Foundation-bred Nokota® horses. We don’t sell or train horses, although the Kuntz family and other members do that on a limited basis — there aren’t a lot of Nokotas in existence (and virtually all of the money from Kuntz family horse sales goes to supporting the rest). All of our activities are organized by members, who volunteer to keep things running and who raise funds to care for the horses and publicize our mission. So far, we’re still working hardest at just keeping the horses alive and well.

                                    ....the primary long term goal of the Conservancy is to purchase land within North Dakota and form a sanctuary where the horses are ensured a place to survive in a natural setting with minimal management.
                                    I went to this page hoping to learn about their breeding practices. Do they geld some of the stallions? How many foals a year?

                                    I could not find answers to any of my questions. It looks like their goal is to have a bunch of horses feral on the land? What is the long term goal besides just increasing the number of horses?

                                    Sorry - seen way too many operations end up in herds of starving horses when "managed" like this. They have ONE WEEK of hay left - summer hasn't even started - how are they going to feed over 450+ horses?
                                    APPSOLUTE CHOCKLATE - Photo by Kathy Colman

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I was trying to learn more about these horses and ran into this:
                                      "http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=1852653

                                      Kerry Kuhn will be in Ohio for a colt start, re-start and horsemanship clinic after his headlining at the Equine Affaire in April in Navarre, Ohio at The Wildcat Ranch. Horses from the Northern Plains of North Dakota will be participating in this clinic and will be offered for sale. There are currently less than 1,000 of these horses worldwide. They are pioneer, indian war ponies and ranch horse strains that have survived in the plains of North Dakota since the confiscation of the Lakota Indians horses and weapons in the 1880s. Contact Kerry Kuhn for more info. regarding the clinic. These horses are in no way connected to the Nokota Horse Conservancy except by name."

                                      Also these people have a bunch of 2010 and 2011 babies - all UNREGISTERED:
                                      http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_list....owner_id=24330
                                      Last edited by BEARCAT; May. 1, 2013, 02:27 PM. Reason: forgot link
                                      "When life gives you scurvy, make lemonade."

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Huh. I wasn't so far off base in my first assumption afterall.

                                        Very, very sad for the horses.

                                        Comment

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