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  • Originally posted by LauraKY View Post
    Not everyone wants less government and not everyone is a firm believer in limitless "states rights."
    I know. you want it when it suits you.

    I am waiting to hear which tune you sing when they knock on your door.
    Originally posted by BigMama1
    Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
    GNU Terry Prachett

    Comment


    • The solution to overbreeding and poor training of horses for the market consists of multiple options and is not as easy as saying "Slaughter."

      Every time this topic comes up, a reasoned multi-step approach is presented by several people, but apparently, if the solution doesn't consist of one word, that is called out as a non-solution by the slaughter folk. Life is not simple, and complex problems do not get solved with a one-word solution.

      The pro-slaughter folk want to keep things simple, even couch the problems into one phrase, "excess horse problem." Well, that just doesn't encompass or explain the complexity of the issues. For example, just comparing the backyard breeder with the Thoroughbred industry illustrates how different the problems are and how solutions may be quite different.

      The former might be influenced to breed more carefully (or avoid breeding) with public forums and other public education drives, changing attitudes which influence negative peer pressures on irresponsible ownership and breeding, local taxes on animals, enforcement of existing property zoning laws, etc.

      On the other hand, the Thoroughbred industry is more sensitive to public image and so the solutions for their horses who fail or age out of horse racing might be a little different, but should be borne by those in the industry, from breeding farm, to auction house, to owner, to race track, to betting companies, to trainer -- maybe even to jockey. They are one industry who are actually making some moves in that direction.

      So the slaughter promoters can shout all they want that no solution has been given to replace the "need for slaughter," but they are just putting their hands over their ears and singing La La La La La when the really difficult and complex problems and solutions are presented.
      "Random capitAlization really Makes my day." -- AndNirina

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
        I know. you want it when it suits you.

        I am waiting to hear which tune you sing when they knock on your door.
        Hah, you mean the small government proponents who are fine with small government as long as it's something that can be privatized or gun laws, but want their nose in your bedroom and your uterus and want to take your property by eminent domain for oil pipelines? Those small government people?

        The same small government people who want to ride roughshod over 1st amendment rights with Ag Gag laws...those small government people?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
          who in government? This Lerner lady?

          We want less government in our lives, here in the land of the free.
          Not more. And not ahve somebody many states over who likely never stepped in a road apple tell people what and how to conduct their lives.

          The government has set guidelines as to how slaughter is to be conducted. The government also hires inspectors who are to enforce the regulations.

          There is always the idea that slaughter gives people an easy way out. Mostly in the connection with with a case of people who neglected their animals on a criminal level.

          I am sorry. But you are talking out of both sides of your mouth.
          On the one hand you do not wish to see a repeat of a situation like the one you described.

          On the other hand you want to hold people accountable who opt for slaughter. Which is it? The bullet and the hole in the ground is not an option everywhere or for everybody. And it is not legal everywhere either.

          Any more legislation to restrict ownership and breeding operations will only serve one thing: Pushing horse ownership out of existence. And that is an agenda point the gray eminences behind the curtains are pushing for. Of course, they don't tell the well meaning folk that. They just blow smoke up their skirts, neglecting to point out a few vital facts....and then oops, we gt laws that hurt everybody. Or probably the good, responsible people more than the rest of them.

          You cannot legislate responsibility. You simply can't legally demand that people form an emotional connection with their animals.

          And we already have laws that prohibit cruel treatment and neglect. But we must be careful what we wish for: A whole lt of people think it is cruel to ride a horse, no matter how light the work load, or to even keep them as pasture pet, not letting them roam free.


          Oh, and BTW, the people in government are Hos. Selling their soul to the highest bidder. How deep are your pockets? Can you buy a politician to protect your lifestyle?
          This is sad. Your whole post is flooded with hatred. Calm down and stop preaching. You can bring up concerns without being snarky. The forum is here to discuss not to yell at other people for bringing up concerns and ideas.

          Now, I am sorry if my post was two-sided. It got kind of garbled. What I meant to say was the people who are breeding 100 horses to get the really nice 10-20 and throwing the rest away at slaughter houses or starving them should be held accountable. They are purposely doing this and its no different then a puppy mill. We also see this crap with the race industry where they run them until they are broken and then just auction them off to slaughter houses or they end up in some random feed lot and starve to death. If they had the money to breed them and still have the money now, they should humanely end their lives or find each one a home. It would be the equivalent to us taking 15 dogs to the local shelter because they are ugly or you just don't want them anymore. They aren't just getting rid of 1. They are sending 100s.

          I think that slaughter is an okay idea to get the population under control when there are no other options. I am talking about these options being available to horses that 1. have no owner, 2. can't afford to euthanize, can't find a home, and cannot bury the horse in their yards because of regulations. I do not think that people who do criminal things or are purposely throwing their horses away should get this option because the US wouldn't be opening a slaughter house unless it was for the reason that there are too many.

          Also, if the federal government wants to allow slaughter houses to re-open, they need to take a stand on how it will be done. Right now, the federal government isn't taking a stance on it. If they want to make a law about soring, they can make a law about this too!

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Alagirl View Post

            On the other hand you want to hold people accountable who opt for slaughter. Which is it? The bullet and the hole in the ground is not an option everywhere or for everybody. And it is not legal everywhere either.

            ?
            Disposing of a horse is available in every location, in every city, county state without resorting to slaughter. If someone decides to own a horse, they MUST have a way to dispose of them without slaughter. After all, if the horse colics and dies, breaks a leg and needs to be euthed, the owner MUST have some way to dispose of them. They can't say they have no way other than slaughter, as a horse that unexpectedly dies of colic, must be disposed of. And if a vet comes out and euths a horse with a broken leg, or even a friend shoots it, they MUST have a way other than slaughter to dispose of the carcass. So they DO have a way to dispose of it. Saying they have no options just isn't true.

            And you ought to read the threads you started about having the money for euth/disposal. Even the poorest of posters here have some kind of plan for euth/disposal.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by jetsmom View Post
              Disposing of a horse is available in every location, in every city, county, state without resorting to slaughter.
              How dare you state such a fact?
              ************************
              \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"

              Comment


              • Originally posted by jetsmom View Post
                And you ought to read the threads you started about having the money for euth/disposal. Even the poorest of posters here have some kind of plan for euth/disposal.
                Yes Alas' thread made it very clear that people posting here at COTH, a healthy cross section of the horse owning population, have a plan and would take care of what they had to do. Very heartening to see.
                Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

                http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

                Comment


                • Originally posted by LauraKY View Post
                  Not everyone wants less government and not everyone is a firm believer in limitless "states rights."
                  Why on earth not?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Angela Freda View Post
                    Yes Alas' thread made it very clear that people posting here at COTH, a healthy cross section of the horse owning population, have a plan and would take care of what they had to do. Very heartening to see.
                    What are you saying? I can almost guarantee you that every horse owner posting here on COTH, will euth their horse when the time comes if it is warranted. I have had 3 unfortunately that I have had to put down, It was never a question of how, and Slaughter was never even an idea.
                    Why would it be.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by luvmytbs View Post
                      How dare you state such a fact?
                      Sometimes I think their are crossed wires on these threads.
                      There are vets everywhere that will put horses down, And who owns a horse without having a large animal vet?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by LauraKY View Post
                        Hah, you mean the small government proponents who are fine with small government as long as it's something that can be privatized or gun laws, but want their nose in your bedroom and your uterus and want to take your property by eminent domain for oil pipelines? Those small government people?

                        The same small government people who want to ride roughshod over 1st amendment rights with Ag Gag laws...those small government people?
                        It's funny how often those who squawk about Big Government are on some kind of public assistance.
                        "Random capitAlization really Makes my day." -- AndNirina

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sannois View Post
                          Sometimes I think their are crossed wires on these threads.
                          There are vets everywhere that will put horses down, And who owns a horse without having a large animal vet?
                          Well, apparently your buddy Alagirl thinks that slaughter MUST be available because people have no way to euth and dispose of a horse without it...

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by PeteyPie View Post
                            The solution to overbreeding and poor training of horses for the market consists of multiple options and is not as easy as saying "Slaughter."

                            Every time this topic comes up, a reasoned multi-step approach is presented by several people, but apparently, if the solution doesn't consist of one word, that is called out as a non-solution by the slaughter folk. Life is not simple, and complex problems do not get solved with a one-word solution.

                            The pro-slaughter folk want to keep things simple, even couch the problems into one phrase, "excess horse problem." Well, that just doesn't encompass or explain the complexity of the issues. For example, just comparing the backyard breeder with the Thoroughbred industry illustrates how different the problems are and how solutions may be quite different.

                            The former might be influenced to breed more carefully (or avoid breeding) with public forums and other public education drives, changing attitudes which influence negative peer pressures on irresponsible ownership and breeding, local taxes on animals, enforcement of existing property zoning laws, etc.

                            On the other hand, the Thoroughbred industry is more sensitive to public image and so the solutions for their horses who fail or age out of horse racing might be a little different, but should be borne by those in the industry, from breeding farm, to auction house, to owner, to race track, to betting companies, to trainer -- maybe even to jockey. They are one industry who are actually making some moves in that direction.

                            So the slaughter promoters can shout all they want that no solution has been given to replace the "need for slaughter," but they are just putting their hands over their ears and singing La La La La La when the really difficult and complex problems and solutions are presented.
                            Pro slaughter folks are always looking for alternatives. Breeders have reduced their numbers and few people are actually acquiring horses..therefore fewer backyard breeders. There are always going to be irresponsible breeders and or owners but the current issue is the result of numerous poor decisions made over the past decade and before.

                            The TB industry learned an important lesson. Shoot, Shovel and Shut Up. They have their killing pits on their farms. They used to send their non runners to sales where enterprising individuals would invest in them for a variety of hunter activities OR they would go to a slaughter plant. Now they are just wasted...rotting carcus in a pit.

                            The pro slaughter are always looking for new options..KB's would rather sell for more money (usually) than just load em up and ship em out for a low rate of return and possible border (into Canada) rejection OR a slaughter plant not willing to pay a full amount due to condition..whereas the anti slaughter want slaughter banned...period...BUT they have NO solutions...oh...except my favourite...turn them out onto government lands where the wind is at their back, the water clear and there is an abundance of grass year round.

                            We have asked on this forum and others and we are always told..THERE ARE SOLUTIONS..you don't want to hear them..but then they can never direct us to to alleged forums OR give us solutions.

                            Our own Angela Freda posted SHE HAD SOLUTIONS...but she wanted me to verify and give a credible source for a statement. I did so..and then she said she was NOT going to give our group any solutions..she didn't have to...translation: I have NO solutions..

                            While your training and non breeding does have an impact over the NEXT decade..how does it give a solution to 100,000 horses this year that are not just at risk...they are slaughter or must get rid of some how bound.

                            Pony Girl...what is YOUR alternative for those 100,000 this year...no need to debate those numbers...posters have provided links from HSUS to USDA over the past year
                            The Elephant in the room

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by PeteyPie View Post
                              It's funny how often those who squawk about Big Government are on some kind of public assistance.
                              LOL, I remember an interview with someone in Ohio who was bashing big brother government and welfare...turns out his family got daycare assistance. It's much like the whole "I built that" meme. Scratch the surface and you see there was a lot of government money behind "I built that."

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by jetsmom View Post
                                Well, apparently your buddy Alagirl thinks that slaughter MUST be available because people have no way to euth and dispose of a horse without it...
                                How much does it cost for incineration in your area? Is it close? Can you provide an example? Cost of vet, shot and shipment and the fire costs.

                                USDA states clearly on THEIR webside..due to euthanization drugs NO rendering, no buriel AND also if you just put them in the field....how about that lady and her vet who can be fined $50,000 for each Eagle killed by eating contaminated meat?

                                If one can not afford $500 for hay for one horse how can they afford the above costs...?
                                The Elephant in the room

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by LauraKY View Post
                                  LOL, I remember an interview with someone in Ohio who was bashing big brother government and welfare...turns out his family got daycare assistance. It's much like the whole "I built that" meme. Scratch the surface and you see there was a lot of government money behind "I built that."
                                  Gosh..didn't the Pres say that to a small businessman? or something to the effect...but then..he has never started up nor operated a business so I guess he wouldn't know...he has always been on the public dole...
                                  The Elephant in the room

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by jetsmom View Post
                                    Disposing of a horse is available in every location, in every city, county state without resorting to slaughter. If someone decides to own a horse, they MUST have a way to dispose of them without slaughter. After all, if the horse colics and dies, breaks a leg and needs to be euthed, the owner MUST have some way to dispose of them. They can't say they have no way other than slaughter, as a horse that unexpectedly dies of colic, must be disposed of. And if a vet comes out and euths a horse with a broken leg, or even a friend shoots it, they MUST have a way other than slaughter to dispose of the carcass. So they DO have a way to dispose of it. Saying they have no options just isn't true.

                                    And you ought to read the threads you started about having the money for euth/disposal. Even the poorest of posters here have some kind of plan for euth/disposal.
                                    This is true across the board, from the track to the big Quarter Horse breeding factories, to the high-end dressage barn. All owners are responsible for dealing with death and disposal when it happens.
                                    "Random capitAlization really Makes my day." -- AndNirina

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Fairfax View Post
                                      How much does it cost for incineration in your area? Is it close? Can you provide an example? Cost of vet, shot and shipment and the fire costs.

                                      USDA states clearly on THEIR webside..due to euthanization drugs NO rendering, no buriel AND also if you just put them in the field....how about that lady and her vet who can be fined $50,000 for each Eagle killed by eating contaminated meat?

                                      If one can not afford $500 for hay for one horse how can they afford the above costs...?
                                      It's 250.00 here for euth and disposal.
                                      Where does USDA say that? Link please. They have NO authority over burying/rendering horses. And people MUST have some plan for a horse needing euth or disposal if it colics and dies or breaks a leg.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Fairfax View Post
                                        How much does it cost for incineration in your area? Is it close? Can you provide an example? Cost of vet, shot and shipment and the fire costs.

                                        USDA states clearly on THEIR webside..due to euthanization drugs NO rendering, no buriel AND also if you just put them in the field....how about that lady and her vet who can be fined $50,000 for each Eagle killed by eating contaminated meat?

                                        If one can not afford $500 for hay for one horse how can they afford the above costs...?
                                        Euthanized animals are rendered every day.
                                        McDowell Racing Stables

                                        Home Away From Home

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by jetsmom View Post
                                          Disposing of a horse is available in every location, in every city, county state without resorting to slaughter. If someone decides to own a horse, they MUST have a way to dispose of them without slaughter. After all, if the horse colics and dies, breaks a leg and needs to be euthed, the owner MUST have some way to dispose of them. They can't say they have no way other than slaughter, as a horse that unexpectedly dies of colic, must be disposed of. And if a vet comes out and euths a horse with a broken leg, or even a friend shoots it, they MUST have a way other than slaughter to dispose of the carcass. So they DO have a way to dispose of it. Saying they have no options just isn't true.

                                          And you ought to read the threads you started about having the money for euth/disposal. Even the poorest of posters here have some kind of plan for euth/disposal.
                                          You made the claim so please let us know the costs for Seattle Washington..Santa Barbara, California, New Oreleans La) and Hartford Connecticut...and please name the rendering plants and if they will take horses euthanized

                                          Horses than unexpectedly die or are shot in the head can..under many circumstances be taken to a field and left for coyotes.

                                          From the sounds of it you had funeral ceremonies planned for your children in advance
                                          The Elephant in the room

                                          Comment

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