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  • Originally posted by stolen virtue View Post
    I'm just waiting for the pro-slaughter group to take their own horses to be slaughtered and cheer them on as they are bolted and hung up.
    This post is immature and totally un called for!
    It leads me to believe you just do not understand anything at all.
    Or you just like to be a pot stirrer.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by LauraKY View Post
      I recall someone posting that the average age of horses going to slaughter is between 5 and 7 or 5 and 9. Anyone else?
      from memory the avg. age is 6, sound, in good flesh.
      They don't want the old, sick, skinny, lame ones.
      Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

      http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

      Comment


      • You are wrong about the financial market. I live in one of the areas that was not hit hard due to our Alberta Oil Sands. The market started to slow in the U.S. in the last quarter of 2008 in real estate.

        2009 in the spring was the stock market crash and that impacted everyone from retired to investors.

        The recession did not have a severe impact until 2010 when the WORLD hit the brick wall.

        Real estate is still at record lows in the U.S. and the Phoenix market is still under advisement NOT to purchase as it will drop yet again. There are some pocket gains however they are not consistent enough to have any investment impact.

        Gold is still high and bonds are low. The market is inflated high and there is no reason for it to be over 15000...this is exactly what happened just before the major crash of 1929..

        Many retired individuals were caught...they were in their 60's and planned to own and continue to breed a few horses...suddenly THEY or their families were ih trouble.

        Yes..many mortgaged their homes to the hilt..but that still impacts ownership of horses.

        Many held on and continue to hold on...there WAS hope that the financial market would improve and their are signs of a slow recovery which may still be impacted by Greece, Spain, Italy etc as unemployment in youth is at an all time high..and no taxes to support programs.

        As they quit buying..we will see another round.

        The HSUS, anti slaughter group etc have made anyone sending a horse to auction a criminal. If anyone takes their horse..sells it...it is a 33 1/3 option..it will not sell...it will go to a KB or it will be sold to a non KB.

        Insurance for medical is at an all time high in the states. All it takes is the following.... a QH breeder and his wife survived the recession..and have been cutting back...slowly making some sales....they are in the mid 50's. He had an accident and broke his back. Their medical expenses are currently over 1/2 million dollars and they do not qualify for help as they own property...

        They have had to quickly sell most of their 22 head...9 went through an auction. I have no idea who they sold to.

        These are NOT isolated cases same as breeders are not ALL flooding the market. the USDA and HSUS stated the average age of horses going to slaughter was from 6 (this was last year) and up to 12.

        Registrations are down and breeders have responded. Of course there is always going to be the exception..but that is what they are. If they supported their farm with KB auctions 10 years ago they will continue that method today.

        I am "almost" envious that so many are like you Lady E. Obviously wealthy beyond my imagination. Only those who are totally isolated an not see nor appreciate the devastation that has occured.

        The market will never revive...at least in my lifetime...and we will see a shift in the paradygm regarding ownership.

        The average individual will NOT be able to afford one horse let alone to breed. TB farms are collapsing within the racing industry and within a decade or so..a good horse will be priced beyond the affordability of those who thought they were entitled to own horses.

        But none of that is going to clean up the excess inventory currently available in the U.S. All options need to be kept open.

        Sunridge cried the blues over on TROT saying she was going to have to sell all of her horses as she could no longer afford to support them...and then we have her pius post above...ok...slaughter is part of the adjustment...it IS a reality

        And anyone can purchase and save all the horses offered...

        I don't see them doing it however....just posting that slaughter is bad, auctions are bad...breeders are bad and so on...
        The Elephant in the room

        Comment


        • Originally posted by PeteyPie View Post
          Can't agree more.

          There is another supply to the slaughter chain; the breeders who breed 100 in order to get ten good ones and send all the rest of the fat range fed ones and failed broodmares to slaughter as part of their horse breeding business. They do this on purpose and as part of their business. One stat I read years ago said something like 75 percent of slaughter horses were Quarter Horses. This would jibe with the AQHA's policy of supporting slaughter.
          Accoprding to the Canadian Dept of Agriculture QH have been upsurped by Drafties and warmbloods. QH's come in third
          The Elephant in the room

          Comment


          • The market will never revive...at least in my lifetime...and we will see a shift in the paradygm regarding ownership.

            The average individual will NOT be able to afford one horse let alone to breed. TB farms are collapsing within the racing industry and within a decade or so..a good horse will be priced beyond the affordability of those who thought they were entitled to own horses.

            I am afraid this is the truth~

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Fairfax View Post
              You are wrong about the financial market. I live in one of the areas that was not hit hard due to our Alberta Oil Sands. The market started to slow in the U.S. in the last quarter of 2008 in real estate.

              2009 in the spring was the stock market crash and that impacted everyone from retired to investors.

              The recession did not have a severe impact until 2010 when the WORLD hit the brick wall.

              Real estate is still at record lows in the U.S. and the Phoenix market is still under advisement NOT to purchase as it will drop yet again. There are some pocket gains however they are not consistent enough to have any investment impact.

              Gold is still high and bonds are low. The market is inflated high and there is no reason for it to be over 15000...this is exactly what happened just before the major crash of 1929..

              Many retired individuals were caught...they were in their 60's and planned to own and continue to breed a few horses...suddenly THEY or their families were ih trouble.

              Yes..many mortgaged their homes to the hilt..but that still impacts ownership of horses.

              Many held on and continue to hold on...there WAS hope that the financial market would improve and their are signs of a slow recovery which may still be impacted by Greece, Spain, Italy etc as unemployment in youth is at an all time high..and no taxes to support programs.

              As they quit buying..we will see another round.

              The HSUS, anti slaughter group etc have made anyone sending a horse to auction a criminal. If anyone takes their horse..sells it...it is a 33 1/3 option..it will not sell...it will go to a KB or it will be sold to a non KB.

              Insurance for medical is at an all time high in the states. All it takes is the following.... a QH breeder and his wife survived the recession..and have been cutting back...slowly making some sales....they are in the mid 50's. He had an accident and broke his back. Their medical expenses are currently over 1/2 million dollars and they do not qualify for help as they own property...

              They have had to quickly sell most of their 22 head...9 went through an auction. I have no idea who they sold to.

              These are NOT isolated cases same as breeders are not ALL flooding the market. the USDA and HSUS stated the average age of horses going to slaughter was from 6 (this was last year) and up to 12.

              Registrations are down and breeders have responded. Of course there is always going to be the exception..but that is what they are. If they supported their farm with KB auctions 10 years ago they will continue that method today.

              I am "almost" envious that so many are like you Lady E. Obviously wealthy beyond my imagination. Only those who are totally isolated an not see nor appreciate the devastation that has occured.

              The market will never revive...at least in my lifetime...and we will see a shift in the paradygm regarding ownership.

              The average individual will NOT be able to afford one horse let alone to breed. TB farms are collapsing within the racing industry and within a decade or so..a good horse will be priced beyond the affordability of those who thought they were entitled to own horses.

              But none of that is going to clean up the excess inventory currently available in the U.S. All options need to be kept open.

              Sunridge cried the blues over on TROT saying she was going to have to sell all of her horses as she could no longer afford to support them...and then we have her pius post above...ok...slaughter is part of the adjustment...it IS a reality

              And anyone can purchase and save all the horses offered...

              I don't see them doing it however....just posting that slaughter is bad, auctions are bad...breeders are bad and so on...
              I don't want to refute your analysis point by point, but a quick google would tell the average person that you're about a year or 18 months behind the times:

              Gold isn't high, it's crashed:
              http://www.monex.com/prods/gold_chart.html

              Real estate isn't low, it's been on a steady rise:
              http://www.realtor.org/news-releases...ut-constrained

              Hate to blow a hole in your analysis, but it is flawed.

              Comment


              • Well if real estate is high, Since I have been home shopping, then why are houses sitting on the market for a year or more and prices are dropping like mad.

                Comment


                • 'Strength of the housing market is irrefutable'
                  http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=186503469
                  Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

                  http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

                  Comment


                  • Well, here in Canada we can't really blame the economy now can we. We slaughter 'em, no matter what. Home prices are not dropping Country wide, maybe in a few select areas out East on the coast, but certainly not in affluent areas such as the one Leo hails from....my area too, house prices on the rise. Hay shortage in Ontario, but it really only hit the ones who were over extended in the first place. Leo, I sense from your posts that you see yourself as hard done by.......who do you blame for that? Based on your extensive experience in all facets of the work force......slaughter house employee, doing the books for incomings, and all of the contacts you seem to have all over the place, surely you can find a decent paying job, no? H&R block not willing to hire you as seasonal? Everyone must KNOW that Alberta is a very well off Province! Canada is not hurting, not by a long shot. Quit yacking about how things are in the US and deal with what is going on in your own Country! Truly, how much actual "devastation" have you endured financially(other than a bitter ex wife, perhaps).
                    Unless you had ALL of your eggs in one basket(or one stock, mutual fund, etc)which is a no brainer for any smart investor..DIVERSIFY is your friend, then really, who the heck are you to even mention the financials of any poster on here???? Eh? Who are you to talk? You live in a Province where jobs abound. In your lifetime, your Country is doing just fine.
                    "Anti-intellect and marketing, pretty, pretty, who needs talent
                    Crying eyes, we're so outnumbered, fight for the right to remain silent" Buck 65

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Sannois View Post
                      Well if real estate is high, Since I have been home shopping, then why are houses sitting on the market for a year or more and prices are dropping like mad.
                      Michigan may be a special case? We're talking country wide here - that doesn't mean there aren't some spots that are still struggling. But overall, definitely on the uptick. Houses are selling like crazy around here (Ohio), and not just to investors. A definite improvement.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sannois View Post
                        I have to say, this also is not constructive. I do NOT believe that anyone on here "LOVES" The idea of Horse Slaughter. I think their are three camps, Those that feel that it is a necessary evil, Those that would never send one of their own to it, but believe if there must be slaughter, let it be done right, Quick and humane, (My feelings)! And those that think it should never happen no matter what.
                        I am also not convinced that any of the folks on these threads are actual honest to goodness Animal Rights activists. Just the way I see it.
                        There is a fourth camp: Those who don't just support, but promote horse slaughter wholeheartedly because they are in the industry in some way. There is no reason to think some of them are not active on this forum or any other social media outlet, as well as government lobbying.

                        This group includes:

                        -those who breed too many horses with the intent of making money off the culls through slaughter (and who are REALLY mad that the price is down),

                        -those who work in horse registries which depend on large numbers of registrations in the breed to keep the money coming in (probably a very small group),

                        -those who are in the business of rounding up mustangs for slaughter (I would think this would be a small sector),

                        -those who are dealers who gather up cheap horses through Craigslist, auctions, race tracks, etc. and sell them to slaughter,

                        -those whose transport business relies primarily on taking horses to a slaughter plant,

                        -those directly involved in slaughter, such as plant owners and employees,

                        -those in the meat industry who are afraid horse slaughter bans will affect their business, and who pay to fight any type of animal support, animal rights, animal welfare, or even vegetarian group.

                        These are just some that occur to me. I'm sure I've left out quite a few who actively promote slaughter, hire lobbyists to promote it, etc. I have no idea how big the industry is, in terms of money.
                        "Random capitAlization really Makes my day." -- AndNirina

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Fairfax View Post
                          Accoprding to the Canadian Dept of Agriculture QH have been upsurped by Drafties and warmbloods. QH's come in third
                          Interesting. I wonder how the PMU industry has contributed to this stat. I forgot about them and the resulting offspring which contribute to the slaughter industry.
                          "Random capitAlization really Makes my day." -- AndNirina

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            Upatfive,
                            Why are you attacking Fairfax like some dreadful serpent? They say there is a fine line between love and hate. Could it be you have a crush on Fairfax? Or could it be that you envy the fact that his light shines at 100 watts while your posts resemble one of those low-voltage sidewalk markers? Fairfax has once again silenced the little gang of AR types and he is correct that the evil woman at the IRS will most definitely be placed in the stockade next week.

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              Still waiting on the link to the FDA request that deloSantos increase the size of that killbox. Oh, yeah, another one of those Angela Freda imaginary things she thinks she saw one time, long, long ago, maybe!!!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by PeteyPie View Post
                                Interesting. I wonder how the PMU industry has contributed to this stat. I forgot about them and the resulting offspring which contribute to the slaughter industry.
                                well, since the PMU industry has taken a huge hit several years ago, I am thinking 7 or 8, I don't think what they produced has any bearing on it.
                                Maybe everybody and their brother is now riding drafts and draft crosses could play into this?

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  Current estimates are coming in that there may be another 75,000 horses heading for slaughter from many of the so-called rescues which are falling apart faster and faster. Indiana, Oklahoma, Texas, Washington, Minnesota, Wisconsin all have rescue scammers going under as we post. So smug little sisterhoodies, please remember to include horse rescues as one of the sources of slaughter horses!!!

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by Fairfax View Post
                                    The market will never revive...at least in my lifetime...and we will see a shift in the paradygm regarding ownership.
                                    I think this is one of the first times I have found myself agreeing with you! I don't agree with the reason, though. I think the market in horses is changing fundamentally because the population has lost its connection with horses.

                                    When I grew up, there were tens of Westerns on TV. Kids read books and little girls especially read horse books. A generation who used horses as transportation or in wars were still living. There was little public awareness of cruelties related to animals in any way -- maybe something like Black Beauty being the exception. Horse racing was one of the few outlets for gambling. More people lived in rural or semi-rural places where horse ownership was cheaper.

                                    All of those things have changed and the younger population just doesn't have an interest or connection to horses in the numbers that it used to have. I really believe that is the main reason for the decline in horse industries across the board, and I don't see it changing.
                                    "Random capitAlization really Makes my day." -- AndNirina

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
                                      This is no mystery. Go to New Holland or one of the other sales and see exactly who is consigning horses to ship. It's dealers, who go around sweeping up the CL give-aways, the breeders' culls, the broke-down racers and the tempermentally challenged or never started. Most of these people are part-time bottom-feeders who cannot make a living with viable using horses, so they hang on by doing this. They are scavengers who don't even want their names known.

                                      If there's ONE viable way to deny this grisly food-chain "product," it's to use every forum at our disposal, including FB, COTH, and your local newspaper and TV or radio station--to publicize exactly how horses get from being somebody's dream to meat on a hook and put the responsibility on the right people--the OWNERS.

                                      I do not buy the economic argument any more--that was true in 2008 maybe, but pretty old news now. The truth is the ONLY people who HAVE to have horses today are those who WANT them badly enough to prioritize ownership--and with that comes responsibility, financial and otherwise.


                                      I think the economy is getting better - I don't think it has recovered to what it was before.

                                      WE have to apply peer pressure to make it socially unacceptable to make Ol' Dobbin (or outgrown Dobbin, or Big Eq thrice-injected Dobbin) DISAPPEAR via the local Midnight Express dealer who will give you a pathetic check and a canned line of fantasy BS.

                                      Slaughter as it is conducted now is NOT "OK" because it is NOT humane at any point from the auction house floor to the killing floor. Stop blowing sunshine on something that should be the shame of any people purporting to be "civilized."
                                      This can NOT be justified in the name of profit, sorry! Oh, and BTW, "profit" is not a god!
                                      Totally agree that it is not humane the way it is now.
                                      The problem with political jokes is that they get elected.
                                      H. Cate

                                      Comment


                                      • If I had to I would shoot them myself.
                                        I just think there is some gray area in there- doesn't make it right.

                                        Originally posted by LauraKY View Post
                                        Yes,but how many of us would send our horse to slaughter for food money? I suspect almost all of us (remember Alagirls threads about do you have $1K) would have already rehomed, sold or euthed the horse we couldn't afford before it got to the point where we needed to sell the horse to slaughter for food money.
                                        The problem with political jokes is that they get elected.
                                        H. Cate

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by oldernewbie View Post
                                          I don't want to refute your analysis point by point, but a quick google would tell the average person that you're about a year or 18 months behind the times:

                                          Gold isn't high, it's crashed:
                                          http://www.monex.com/prods/gold_chart.html

                                          Real estate isn't low, it's been on a steady rise:
                                          http://www.realtor.org/news-releases...ut-constrained

                                          Hate to blow a hole in your analysis, but it is flawed.
                                          As an investor I can tell you that you are wrong as is your source. I own property in the U.S. and have been in the gold market for decades.

                                          The problem is..Germany just removed ALL of its gold reserve from the U.S.A. The U.S. is trying to just print money without a currency backing i.e. Sterling or gold..while the rest of the world is going back to basics.

                                          The rest of the world does not believe the money.com analysis.

                                          As for steady rise..there are some pockets however there are numerous factors. The middle class are currently under attack. They are no longer buying and selling. There are pockets where there is huge money available and there is a demand for very high end luxury properties of 35 million and up but that market remains consistent.

                                          I rely on the advice of authorities in both areas and they are consistent with what I have posted. Gold may take a drop of about 18 percent as interest rates are forced to rise (and also gas prices for this summer are appearing to be on the increase...and I don't want to depress you with electricity rises of up to 55% especially if you reside in New Jersey, California, New York, Oregon, and any state that purchases from Canada)...these all temper disposable income and impact the middle class.

                                          Hopefully a drought will start to ease to stabalize hay prices...but I expect they will go up as Japan and China are able to import it from the U.S. therefore causing an inner country reduction in availability.

                                          Up to 5..I would not take advice from you regarding toilet paper.

                                          As a self employed property owner (breeding farm) I am doing okay.

                                          I sold two ASB's to China and one is leaving for Scottsdale but I am very fortunate. I also have my own hay field so that is not an issue.

                                          There are Canadian horses going for slaughter however the market for them is way down. There are buyers for horses..but all I have to do is drive ten minutes south..into northern Montana and the issue is very different.

                                          Maybe someone will be able to entice the computer newbies into horses..that would be a new market...

                                          Bottom line...the anti slaughter have had .. do have..and will continue to have..an opportunity to present effective solutions but, like Angela..when pressed..they say they won't share them..or they just disappear.
                                          The Elephant in the room

                                          Comment

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