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PETA's 10 Commandments of Horse Care/edit post #1

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  • Original Poster

    Originally posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
    Police thyself, Pilgrim, and you'll have little to worry about from da freaks!
    Oh, if only that were true, Lady Eboshi.

    We self-police 6 ways from Sunday -- even got best practices written into NYC LAW -- and we do not enjoy a moment's peace from the RARAs.
    Last edited by michaleenflynn; Apr. 22, 2013, 08:45 PM.
    VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts

    Comment


    • I'm not a PETA fan (at all), and I have no idea what a rara is, but the web link looks pretty similar to what I was taught in Pony Club some 30 years ago. I've never used large tanks, but I do scrub buckets and waterers daily; stalls are cleaned thoroughly and then picked as needed throughout the day; and manure has never been kept near the barn (whether my own, or one I've boarded at). The horses get approximately 3 flakes, 3x daily of high quality hay (plus grains as needed per horse) . . . though I cannot imagine giving any of my guys that much straight alfalfa. And they live outside in the evenings on properly-tended pastures with shelters and waterers. Other than being very general, the only thing I see that's really wrong is they make it out as a one size fits all list, when we know horses don't really work that way
      Piaffe Girl -- Dressage. Fashionably.
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      Comment


      • 'Looks pretty similar' really isn't.

        Like a cubic zirconia is only a diamond wanna be.

        'Kept near the barn' is not equal to 'can't be seen by (horses) or from the stables'

        Do the water tanks have rocks or logs? remember, they should.

        'Regardless of the hay's quality, it should be stored away from the horse's stall to avoid respiratory problems caused by its dust. A dietary supplement of grains, oats, or sweet feed should be given twice each day, ideally at the same time every day'

        How far is away from?
        In another building?
        Same building but xxx feet away?
        Is a loft OK?
        If dusty hay is bad (yes, it is so listed) why would you be storing dusty hay?
        And yet there is no mention of dusty sawdust?

        And what about the many horses who do not need grain, or react badly to it?

        Surely you don't 'count 5 droppings and no more'; nor does Pony Club believe an immaculate stall is a sign of coprophagy.
        -Oh, what about that stage in young foals where they pick up fresh manure from their dams to get their gut flora going?

        Similar, but not the same. Tremendous value in one; little of value in the other.

        Comment


        • And if one reads closely, the Ten Commandments in the bible were not called that by 'the giver of them', but were called that after the fact by those who received them.

          If OP wants to call the 'shoulds' on the PETA site their commandments, she is not wrong to do that.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by gaitedincali View Post
            My horses would think they'd died and gone to heaven if they got a half bale of hay a day.

            Plus the "dietary supplement of grains, oats, or sweet feed" that I'm supposed to be giving them.

            How many days do you figure before I foundered the pony-sized lightly-worked horses with 50# of alfalfa a day plus sweet feed?
            huh?? obviously their message is simplistic...there are so many variables...like size of bale!

            but 50# is 2% of 2500lbs... so the math part should clarify the generalization.

            Your maybe 750 lb horse would be eating 15lbs of combined hay and grain which is less than 1/2 bale of small bale very dry orchard grass not counting any grain..

            Comment


            • Wow, it's like watching terriers fight over a rat of who hates "them" the most. Frothing arguments against a group known for their frothing arguments -- who needs to pay for cable when there is COTH!
              Life doesn't have perfect footing.

              Bloggily entertain yourself with our adventures (and disasters):
              We Are Flying Solo

              Comment


              • Originally posted by D_BaldStockings View Post
                'Looks pretty similar' really isn't.

                Like a cubic zirconia is only a diamond wanna be.

                'Kept near the barn' is not equal to 'can't be seen by (horses) or from the stables'

                Do the water tanks have rocks or logs? remember, they should.

                'Regardless of the hay's quality, it should be stored away from the horse's stall to avoid respiratory problems caused by its dust. A dietary supplement of grains, oats, or sweet feed should be given twice each day, ideally at the same time every day'

                How far is away from?
                In another building?
                Same building but xxx feet away?
                Is a loft OK?
                If dusty hay is bad (yes, it is so listed) why would you be storing dusty hay?
                And yet there is no mention of dusty sawdust?

                And what about the many horses who do not need grain, or react badly to it?

                Surely you don't 'count 5 droppings and no more'; nor does Pony Club believe an immaculate stall is a sign of coprophagy.
                -Oh, what about that stage in young foals where they pick up fresh manure from their dams to get their gut flora going?

                Similar, but not the same. Tremendous value in one; little of value in the other.
                Folks, I don't thing anyone was intending this thing to be "comprehensive." Any more than a 6th-grade "hygiene" book covers every possible, er, "circumstance."
                There are whole BOOKS on horse care, even cavalry manuals once thought to be the gold standard by entire ARMIES, the practices of which might be questionable under various conditions; the traditional farrier practice of every horse's hoof being cut to a 45 degree angle comes to mind. If I rummaged around on my bookshelf of quite famous and distinguished authorities, I bet I could post up some looeys!

                I DO realize you NYC carriage folks are under a special scrutiny and dealing with major-league wackers; hats off to you for the terrific job you do with your horses! Anyone who actually KNOWS anything knows the TRUTH.

                BTW, logs in water tanks are key. I was doing that eons before PETA ever thought of it, 'cause I got mighty sick of throwing out 100 gallons or more of water every time a squirrel decided to go for a dunk. And I always know if the tank is getting low, because the horses play like to bang the logs around like someone hitting their glass with a spoon . . .

                Comment


                • I'm just thinking of all the infractions I have committed.

                  Yikes, my horses are starving because they don't get enough hay. Oops, my manure pile can be seen - my ponies are emotionally scarred! Oh noes, my horse pooped more than five times, he is living in filth! I didn't scrub the water buckets today, the water is undrinkable!

                  You see, I prefer to think that the article was written as a general guideline. But, knowing something about PETA's history, I don't think they have any grey area. Kind of frightening, if you ask me.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
                    BTW, logs in water tanks are key. I was doing that eons before PETA ever thought of it, 'cause I got mighty sick of throwing out 100 gallons or more of water every time a squirrel decided to go for a dunk. And I always know if the tank is getting low, because the horses play like to bang the logs around like someone hitting their glass with a spoon . . .
                    I float pine planks in mine and have for over a decade; I think it is a good idea but it does provide another place for slime and algae to grow. Your horses haven't mastered the bite-and-fling so you have to hunt for the wood toy in the unlikeliest of spots, yet? They will!

                    And there are those who put their dirty little hooves into the larger tanks and splash; or the truly creative who climb in and lie down...


                    Saying something is a good idea and has worked for you is different than saying it should be an industry standard or else one is neglectful.

                    Comment


                    • We have these bird ladders in all our water troughs:

                      http://rmbo.org/v3/Portals/0/Documen...r%20Design.pdf

                      A friend makes them and came one day and put them all in.

                      Comment


                      • But one more question: What do rocks do?

                        But in any case, if you are on the fence about the purpose of the page, read the bird care sheet....if the first couple paragraphs don't make you feel like complete heel for owning - pardon me, I meant guarding over - birds....you are beyond redemption!
                        Originally posted by BigMama1
                        Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
                        GNU Terry Prachett

                        Comment


                        • Yeah, about that feeding at the same time thing...not me. I have found through trial and error, that if I feed when I get to the barn (in other words, after I wakey-wakey, have my coffee and do this, that and the other) at different times, I don't have horses who bang on the barn (actually pasture now) or paw or try to duke it out with each other. They know to be patient and their feed will show up, just hang in there, no point in acting stoopid. When I used to have a set feeding time (like when showing or when I worked outside my home, etc.), that's when my horses acted worse. The only thing so far, is when 5 PM comes around, they come up from the pasture and stand by the gate and LOOOOOK at the house.
                          GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!

                          Comment


                          • "(Immaculate stalls can mean that horses are eating their own feces in order to supplement their diet.)"

                            What? I guess maybe if they are on stall mats, but I've never found an immaculate stall to be because the horse is eating their own poo. Otherwise, rescue sites would look...much different.

                            "The manure pile, where droppings are temporarily disposed of, should not be able to be seen or smelled from the horse's stall or shelter and should be cleared from the property at least once every month. The pasture should be free of debris. Fences should be checked regularly for stability and strength."

                            Smelled? First of all, horse manure doesn't smell. The biggest issue (of course, as we all know) is fly control. Composted properly, it doesn't smell, flies are controlled and no, I'm not removing it once a month. That sh*t is literally gold!

                            "Yellow, dusty, moldy, smelly hay or hay with fine dust, flakes, or clumps of plant matter may cause colic, respiratory problems, or even starvation, should the horse refuse to eat it. Regardless of the hay's quality, it should be stored away from the horse's stall to avoid respiratory problems caused by its dust. A dietary supplement of grains, oats, or sweet feed should be given twice each day, ideally at the same time every day."

                            If you have an average horse, in certain parts of the country, these guidelines might be fine. But overfeeding (as would be the case for my fat man and the pony) following these guidelines would be just as bad as underfeeding (as would be the case for the mare).

                            All of this has been discussed ad nauseum here, but my real issue with it is that horse care can and does vary. My horses are out 24/7, except the guy who is here on stall rest. They have a sacrifice pasture when it's wet. Much of my pasture is actually wooded, which means that there are lots of obstacles. Interestingly, I've had only one injury in the years I've had horses on this property, and it was a youngster with a puncture wound. I've seen way worse on pristine pasture-land (and I'm really not sure why, other than the conjecture that horses get STUPID in wide-open areas, and tend to be more careful in the woods). Of course, now that I've said that, they are all going to injure themselves, which I will promptly blame on this thread. My BIGGEST issue with it is that the do-gooders who read that will misinterpret things and start calling things in or judging others needlessly. I had one person ask me if it was okay if a horse had a small pasture area, and not a huge amount of grass to eat and no blanket while woefully proclaiming abuse. I asked for pictures, took a look, and the very fat horse was quite happy to wallow away in his dirt lot with his hay.

                            Sometimes I think just a little bit of education is dangerous. Far better to have questions and answers related to the CONDITION of a horse. That's way more important than a half bale guideline.

                            Comment


                            • I was disappointed to see PETA perpetuate the old practice of "cyclical worming" whether you need it or not. Isn't that what caused and is continuing to cause resistance to virtually all available wormers? Most vets in my area have now moved to doing fecal tests and only treating as necessary.
                              "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller

                              Comment


                              • PETA:

                                ---April 17, 2013
                                Totilas Abuse Charges Dropped
                                By: Bernadette Palmeri
                                PRINT SHARE
                                On April 15, the Frankfurt, Germany, state attorney dropped all charges in the Totilas abuse case. The charges were originally filed last October by the German branch of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals.

                                The charges were targeted at the horse’s owners, Ann Kathrin Linsenhoff and Paul Schockemöhle, trainer Klaus-Martin Rath and rider Matthias Rath. PETA had alleged that Totilas, a 13-year-old Dutch Warmblood stallion (Gribaldi—Lominka, Glendale) ridden to 2010 Alltech FEI World Equestrian Games (Ky.) team, individual and freestyle gold with Edward Gal before being sold to Schockemöhle and Linsenhoff, was abused since he was kept in isolation from other horses and submitted to rollkur during training. A group of six experts and animal welfare officer Dr. Madeleine Martin visited Totilas’ farm last December, seeking evidence of abuse.

                                In response to the charges being dropped, Klaus-Martin told Dressursport Deutschland: "The animal welfare officer quickly saw that neither the images nor the videos of any evidence came from here. And the criticism of the training, it is indeed more of a religious war. This debate being waged is not factual. But now we have the law on our side, and stating that this is absolutely not a case of cruelty to animals may be important for the entire equestrian sport."---

                                Comment


                                • My pony stands on his manure pile, like he's king of the hill . In my defense, it's turned regularly and really compost, but......

                                  Comment


                                  • Ages ago in the 80's I remember one boarding barn where a very old packed manure pile was the favorite lying down resting place for the older horses with arthritis since it 'heated up' like a spa on chilly autumn nights.
                                    And they had to go a ways to get to it, too, it was quite a distance from the stables where they were fed.

                                    Oh, the horror!

                                    Comment


                                    • From the PETA site Companion Animals
                                      http://www.peta.org/living/companion...ompanions.aspx

                                      "...with everything you need to know about being a great guardian to your furry, feathered, and finned friends. From housetraining Fido to nontoxic flea control, from spaying and neutering to saving kitty's claws and your couch, you’ve found your reliable source for animal-care advice."

                                      So, yes, I think they DO consider themselves to be the Gold Standard and Answer to All Questions.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by D_BaldStockings View Post
                                        From the PETA site Companion Animals
                                        http://www.peta.org/living/companion...ompanions.aspx

                                        "...with everything you need to know about being a great guardian to your furry, feathered, and finned friends. From housetraining Fido to nontoxic flea control, from spaying and neutering to saving kitty's claws and your couch, you’ve found your reliable source for animal-care advice."

                                        So, yes, I think they DO consider themselves to be the Gold Standard and Answer to All Questions.
                                        aren't we blessed to have them! <vomit icon>

                                        And no, I own my critters. I am not a pet parent.
                                        Originally posted by BigMama1
                                        Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
                                        GNU Terry Prachett

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
                                          And no, I own my critters. I am not a pet parent.
                                          I thought THEY owned US? I mean, I had a nasty headache today and none of my critters brought me anything to eat or took care of me (I am sure that Lord Meow, the barn cat, would have brought me a mouse if I would let him inside - he hasn't gotten on the vegetarian cat bandwagon yet). In fact, I had to get up and feed THEM even though I felt like garbage. The only thing they did was pile on the sofa with me and tell me how I was being a good cat. (That was right before they demanded dinner). Who owns who?
                                          Visit us at Bluebonnet Equine Humane Society - www.bluebonnetequine.org

                                          Want to get involved in rescue or start your own? Check out How to Start a Horse Rescue - www.howtostartarescue.com

                                          Comment

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