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The true risk of bute (not the hysterical rara version)

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  • The true risk of bute (not the hysterical rara version)

    So, as several new slaughterhouses begin to warm up for debuts in the next several weeks, we have been bombarded with outlandish claims that horses are full of bute and bute will kill humans who consume even a taste of horse meat.
    Well, it is time to set the record straight and send those alarmist, hysterical posters back to Wayneland to plot their next assault on logic!

    "Phenylbutazone is occasionally used in human medicine for the treatment of patients with severe rheumatoid arthritis and has been linked to rare occurrence of a blood disorder, aplastic anemia, which has been observed in 1 in 30,000 people treated.

    The report concluded that the likelihood that a predisposed individual consume horsemeat contaminated with the drug and develop this condition is low – between 2 in a trillion and 1 in 100 million. This estimate takes into account the likelihood of consumers being exposed to phenylbutazone on a given day from the consumption of horsemeat itself or from beef products adulterated with horse meat.

    They found that while the genotoxicity of phenylbutazone – that is, its potential to damage human DNA – could not be excluded, this was considered unlikely.

    The report also concluded that the risk of carcinogenicity is of very low concern given the estimated infrequency of consuming horse meat containing residues of phenylbutazone (consumed as such or in beef products adulterated with horsemeat) and the estimated low levels of the drug to which consumers could be exposed through the diet.

    In estimating possible levels of phenylbutazone in foods, scientists used the highest concentration of the drug reported in the testing programme carried out by member states.

    Both agencies provided advice to further reduce the risk to consumers from the illegal presence of phenylbutazone in horsemeat."

  • #2
    I don't really care if Europeans want to eat horse meat that may or may not contain chemicals/medications/etc. not intended for human consumption (that's not my problem and not my issue with slaughter), but you did leave out a good chunk of the article.

    Comment


    • #3
      You forgot to document where your quote came from.

      You are also forgetting one thing. The primary consumer of most of the horsemeat produced in Canada and Mexico has a few rules, one being NO BUTE EVER DURING THE HORSE'S LIFETIME.

      It doesn't matter if bute hurts you or not. It doesn't matter if it gives you the strength of ten and turns you into Xena Warrior Princess. The powers that be give it the big no-no, including a big no-no for cattle here in the USA.

      Another thing is that the way things stand now there is no way to tell whether a horse has ever had bute during his lifetime, and the percentage that have is probably magnified by the fact that horses that are slaughtered are generally far older than similar other slaughter animals.

      Anyway, I'd be curious as to the source of your quote.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by betonbill View Post
        You forgot to document where your quote came from.

        You are also forgetting one thing. The primary consumer of most of the horsemeat produced in Canada and Mexico has a few rules, one being NO BUTE EVER DURING THE HORSE'S LIFETIME.

        It doesn't matter if bute hurts you or not. It doesn't matter if it gives you the strength of ten and turns you into Xena Warrior Princess. The powers that be give it the big no-no, including a big no-no for cattle here in the USA.

        Another thing is that the way things stand now there is no way to tell whether a horse has ever had bute during his lifetime, and the percentage that have is probably magnified by the fact that horses that are slaughtered are generally far older than similar other slaughter animals.

        Anyway, I'd be curious as to the source of your quote.
        I believe I can help you with that. FYI, all you have to do is highlight a reasonably short sentence, right click, and then choose "Search Google for..." whatever term you have highlighted. I found the article in seconds. It's also easy to see when people are citing Wickipedia as the gospel.

        Here's two probable sources I found. In either case, the OP left out a good chunk of the information:

        http://www.ema.europa.eu/docs/en_GB/...C500142039.pdf

        http://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/press/news/130415.htm

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          I posted the portion of the article which drilled down to the proof that all the sisterhood has been making much ado about nothing!!! Here is where I found the proof that the rara's are neither honest nor wise enough to understand what the tests have shown!

          http://horsetalk.co.nz/2013/04/17/ri...s#.UW4QOaJvO_g

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Funny how our local Wayners are now claiming they don't care about anything that people in the EU might say! Prior to this proof that the wayners were completely wrong, they were singing the praises of the EU and feigning concern that they might consume a crumb of horse flesh which might harm them! So predictable.

            Comment


            • #7
              Did you overlook this gem in that article? (emphasis in quote is mine)

              Both confirmed that it was not possible to set safe levels for phenylbutazone in food products of animal origin and therefore its use in the food chain should remain prohibited.
              and

              They reiterated the need to improve the monitoring and reporting of data on the presence of residues of veterinary medicines in live animals and food products of animal origin across the European Union.
              I believe that is something that people have been advocating in other threads regarding horses slaughtered for human consumption that come from the US and how there is no way to trace what drugs they've been given.

              and

              Proposed Europe-wide measures include introduction of a reliable identification system for horses, harmonising checks of phenylbutazone and improving the reporting of monitoring data for its possible presence in foods.
              So it seems like despite the "true risk" in meat being determined to be low (and I'm not arguing that, it's there in black and white in the article you linked) by these studies...they're still recommending that it be tracked so it doesn't end up in the food chain and that it should still be prohibited from food animals.

              Huh.
              The Trials and Jubilations of a Twenty-Something Re-rider
              Happy owner of Kieran the mostly-white-very-large-not-pony.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Analise,
                Look at the numbers, not the silly rara emotions! Cold, hard, science has blasted another wayner tactic out of the water. Wow, lost the circus/rico case, lost a big arabian case, and now losing the pr war! Wayne and his puppets just can't catch a break!

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'm not looking at emotions. I'm looking at what's stated in the article you are quoting, that's all.
                  The Trials and Jubilations of a Twenty-Something Re-rider
                  Happy owner of Kieran the mostly-white-very-large-not-pony.

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Oh Analise,
                    You are capable of much better! 2 in a trillion, 1 in 2 million! Oh and by the way, if you mainline bute into an arthritis patient, 1 in 30,000 might react!!! Sure looks different when you remove the sill emotions, doesn't it?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The only person who sounds emotional here is you, 7arabians. Sorry to not live up to your expectations of me.
                      The Trials and Jubilations of a Twenty-Something Re-rider
                      Happy owner of Kieran the mostly-white-very-large-not-pony.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        There's so many problems with animals regulated and raised for slaughter that if you are eating horsemeat, ingesting bute is probably one of the least of your problems.
                        Groom to trainer: "Where's the glamour? You promised me glamour!"

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          Analise,
                          As the official GG apologist, you are pure emotion. To defend the complete annihilation of the Morgan breed could only be done by a very emotional entity. At least with the $millions that GG produces, they can certainly afford to pay you better to sit on forums to defend them from the truth being exposed!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by analise View Post
                            The only person who sounds emotional here is you, 7arabians. Sorry to not live up to your expectations of me.
                            I am afraid I will have to agree with that. ^

                            Lets remember, no matter where any one poster is coming from, even if they do want these forums to now be their platform to push their agenda of animal rights, it is their right to do so, not against the rules.

                            Best to respond to what is presented, not to who is presenting it.

                            OP, try to tone the personal accusations down, will 'ya, please?

                            I am sure you can find a better way to say what you want to say without strident personal jabs.
                            I appreciate the information you present, the delivery, not so much.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Does it really matter what the "truth" about the safety of bute in animals slaughtered for human consumption is? Regardless of safety or not, it is prohibited.
                              McDowell Racing Stables

                              Home Away From Home

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                7arabians, your hysterical spin is exceeded only by your complete lack of understanding of drug safety and risk analysis. The risk of bute is not a "rara spin", it is a decision based upon available data by the FDA and the USDA. I have explained how that works in other threads, but you were probably too busy being hysterical on those threads to comprehend anything that did not support your own dogma.

                                The long and short of it is something I have read the rabid pro-slaughter proponents post over and over (it is simply inconvenient in this case for their faction): there already are pre-existing rules and regulations that need to be enforced and followed. Bute and multiple other substances, are already banned in animals intended for human consumption. The official government agencies in the US, Canada, Japan, EU, etc have all determined this to be regulation/law. Why should horses be held to a lower standard than cows and pigs?

                                Hmmm, that could be the start of a slippery slope theory such as the one always being bandied about that we are going to lose our animals. Except here it is that if we let the agriculture industry allow these substances into the human food chain via horses, they will not stop there, they will use it as a stepping stone to introduce legislation allowing cows and pigs to start receiving banned substances as well. That is not a path I am willing to go down. The human food chain needs to be kept as clean and safe as possible.
                                Last edited by ADM7040; Apr. 17, 2013, 09:14 AM. Reason: spelling
                                Annabelle Mayr, Arcadia Farm
                                Home of Fitz, Austria & Erin
                                Now over the Rainbow Bridge: Daeo, Max, Finn, Jake, Seamus & Pleasure

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Wow. Removing all those silly emotions...that sort of makes me think of that Sappington A$$hat...

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I worked in pediatric Rheumatology for several years. While my adult Rheum knowledge is limited, I can assure you that I never saw any evidence of using bute in children--in the US or abroad. Peds medicine is often more restrictive with meds though.

                                    As a Rheum patient with arthritis, you couldn't pay me to take bute therapeutically. There are FAR too many other, more effective, safer options,
                                    Flip a coin. It's not what side lands that matters, but what side you were hoping for when the coin was still in the air.

                                    You call it boxed wine. I call it carboardeaux.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by jen-s View Post
                                      I worked in pediatric Rheumatology for several years. While my adult Rheum knowledge is limited, I can assure you that I never saw any evidence of using bute in children--in the US or abroad. Peds medicine is often more restrictive with meds though.

                                      As a Rheum patient with arthritis, you couldn't pay me to take bute therapeutically. There are FAR too many other, more effective, safer options,

                                      I can say, at the track, decades ago, practically all humans were getting bute for most everything and none ever "got sick" from it.

                                      Yes, there are risk with bute as with all else and there are better human medications today to address what people then used bute for, but the possible harm of bute is wildly exaggerated by certain groups, because it fits their agenda, no one can deny that.

                                      Indeed, once banned, well, it is banned, if rightfully so or not, if the risk is practically nil or not, so it should not be there when tested for.

                                      Now, the science is not there that, once given, the animal is off limits for use once more thru slaughter.
                                      Today, that can be addressed thru testing and if any residue is found, then, well, discard that batch and I think that is what the new protocol will be, once the tests are confirmed effective, as they are for so many other substances, in any other species we use once more thru slaughter.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by 7arabians View Post
                                        Analise,
                                        As the official GG apologist, you are pure emotion. To defend the complete annihilation of the Morgan breed could only be done by a very emotional entity. At least with the $millions that GG produces, they can certainly afford to pay you better to sit on forums to defend them from the truth being exposed!
                                        Gentle Giants is not now nor have they ever paid me anything to work in any capacity for them. Nor have I ever been considered their "official apologist" by anyone except for you and your circle.

                                        Nor did they or I anywhere state anything about the complete annihilation of the Morgan breed. That is just a patently ridiculous statement, 7a.
                                        The Trials and Jubilations of a Twenty-Something Re-rider
                                        Happy owner of Kieran the mostly-white-very-large-not-pony.

                                        Comment

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