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The true risk of bute (not the hysterical rara version)

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Bluey View Post
    Moot question when we lose our rights to have any animals, would you say.
    Once again, I ask you: what proof do you have this will happen if slaughter is indeed banned? In other words, please provide specific examples relating to 2007 the last time slaughter was banned.

    Having 50 lawyers on staff is not an answer.
    Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg

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    • #62
      Originally posted by mswillie View Post
      In re-reading my post I don't see where I stated that you couldn't send your horses any where you want. But if they've had bute you can't. That's the law. You don't get to circumvent what may be a public health issue in the name of what you perceive to be your "rights".

      You can't slaughter any animal for human food that has had bute, not just horses. You don't get a special pass just for horses.
      Excellent post, mswillie!
      Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
      http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
      http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg

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      • #63
        Originally posted by jenm View Post
        Once again, I ask you: what proof do you have this will happen if slaughter is indeed banned? In other words, please provide specific examples relating to 2007 the last time slaughter was banned.

        Having 50 lawyers on staff is not an answer.


        For your reading pleasure and this is not the only one, there are more with that same information, or you can check it out yourself if you don't believe where it is posted:

        http://www.activistcash.com/organiza...united-states/

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Bluey View Post


          For your reading pleasure and this is not the only one, there are more with that same information, or you can check it out yourself if you don't believe where it is posted:

          http://www.activistcash.com/organiza...united-states/
          That doesn't answer my question Bluey. I don't dispute the HSUS is deceptive and corrupt. I asked you to supply proof of what they have done to show they have the power to take away use of all animals if slaughter is banned.

          The site you seem to frequently post the link to doesn't have anything past 2010 and nothing about what they are doing to prevent use of all animals.

          Nice try.
          Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
          http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
          http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by jenm View Post
            That doesn't answer my question Bluey. I don't dispute the HSUS is deceptive and corrupt. I asked you to supply proof of what they have done to show they have the power to take away use of all animals if slaughter is banned.

            The site you seem to frequently post the link to doesn't have anything past 2010 and nothing about what they are doing to prevent use of all animals.

            Nice try.
            Wrong, that site is current.

            What they don't have is financials past 2010 because they have not been posted yet by the IRS.

            That is not the only web site with that information, there are several others, humanewatch.com another, that one as a blog, with many personal stories of those that have been to the HSUS conventions and what they have to report back is scary indeed, if you want to keep your rights to have any animals.

            I think that, as so many animal rights extremists here, some are just not wanting to see the big picture and that is fine, others are getting it, each one according to what they want to get out of these debates.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Bluey View Post
              Wrong, that site is current.

              What they don't have is financials past 2010 because they have not been posted yet by the IRS.

              That is not the only web site with that information, there are several others, humanewatch.com another, that one as a blog, with many personal stories of those that have been to the HSUS conventions and what they have to report back is scary indeed, if you want to keep your rights to have any animals.

              I think that, as so many animal rights extremists here, some are just not wanting to see the big picture and that is fine, others are getting it, each one according to what they want to get out of these debates.
              Around and around you go, still dodging the one question I asked.
              Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
              http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
              http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg

              Comment


              • #67
                As part of the RARA P I group I would have thought you would have been able to locate it.

                They are NOT going to arrive at your door and take your horse away.

                They will make so many laws, i.e. the one in Oregon they tried to implement when they were going to designate horses as companion animals and then they also reminded EVERYONE that you must clean up after your companion animal..

                They will tax breeders, force individuals to pay for forever homes and tax every transaction regarding horses (see PETA suggestion) (see HSUS disputing them saying only HSUS could manage the money correctly)

                They will try and sneak legislation through i.e. U Davis regarding stall sizes which would make ALL facilities illegal and therefore unable to provide horse shows...

                They will continue to demonize ALL breeders who sell at auction horses they do not want to keep in their breeding program. There was a call on ABN to start going after a breeder for selling 10 yearlings/ 2 year olds.

                Auctions are NOT illegal
                Slaughter was NOT banned..it was "adjusted" Could not operate without inspections and the inspections were defunded.

                Slaughter therefore is NOT illegal

                Shipping of horse meat with bute or other chemicals is NOT illegal. It depends on the country receiving it.

                Bet you folks are a "gas" at your P I meetings...who is the president? Laura and her trained tracker Sheilah?
                The Elephant in the room

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by jenm View Post
                  You do have the right to slaughter your own horse. That wouldn't be taken away.
                  But...but..but..did not YOU and your rara group PROTEST the evil horrible man who shot, in the head, with a clean shot...the prettiest, cutest and probably best friend a person could ever have....did you not say he should be FIRED and CHARGED with animal cruelty

                  No slaughter is NOT available to all. If I euthanize..contamination of soil, water and maybe have to hire a backhoe to bury it OR ship it for incineration if no rendering plant.

                  I think you are spinning your wheel's..and you are the one going round and round and round because you fail to remember what YOU and your group have posted.
                  The Elephant in the room

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                    Sure YOUR horse, but why would you think you should tell others what to do with THEIR horses?
                    I'm not

                    Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                    How would you feel if now some of the largest non profit in the world would spend their resources and propaganda machine on mandatory slaughter for any horse that is not of use alive any more, so you can't shoot yours as you wish, but have by law to send it to slaughter for one more use, so it doesn't become a liability to dispose of
                    Straw man

                    Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                    You impinge on other's rights at the risk of losing your own.
                    What is at risk here, the right to even have animals, here a drive to ban horse slaughter, there some other, on all the fronts those animal rights groups are attacking all uses of animals.

                    Just think about that before you choose to interfere with what others may do or not that is legal to do by following animal rights extremist bandwagons to ban this and that.
                    What I'm far more worried about is my losing my ability to treat my horse with safe and effective medications (for horses). Because if horse slaughter is re-introduced and the industry doesn't police itself it is far easier for the government to simply ban the drug.

                    This thread was specifically about bute, that's what I responded to and to the attitude from a poster who believes that bute in the food chain doesn't matter. It's much easier to remove a drug from the market then it is to try to regulate it. Bute is generic, doesn't have backing by big pharma, and has no use in humans. The vast majority of people couldn't care less if it was available or not.

                    And no one is going to foot the bill for millions of dollars in testing to determine a safe level of residual bute in horses. There's just not enough money in it.

                    When the story broke about horse meat in "beef" in the UK, one of the first things I read was not a suggestion to raise horses specifically for consumption, it was a call to "ban these horrible drugs".

                    Your "right" to make a buck the way you want to doesn't trump my "right" to provide what I think is appropriate medical care to my horse.
                    "Some people are born on third base and go through life thinking they hit a triple” – Barry Switzer

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Banning drugs due to slaughter...is not going to happen. the ban due to drugs was the usual Animal Rights protest. The issue was false label claims. Total different issues despite what the group on this forum or in europe claim

                      How did you go from treating your horse to pro slaughter not letting you treat your horses medical condition?

                      That is not an issue I have heard of..even hinted..
                      The Elephant in the room

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by jenm View Post
                        That doesn't answer my question Bluey. I don't dispute the HSUS is deceptive and corrupt. I asked you to supply proof of what they have done to show they have the power to take away use of all animals if slaughter is banned.

                        The site you seem to frequently post the link to doesn't have anything past 2010 and nothing about what they are doing to prevent use of all animals.

                        Nice try.
                        So you would support a ban on HSUS because they are deceptive and corrupt?

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by mswillie View Post
                          What I'm far more worried about is my losing my ability to treat my horse with safe and effective medications (for horses). Because if horse slaughter is re-introduced and the industry doesn't police itself it is far easier for the government to simply ban the drug.

                          That is definitely a valid concern.
                          Except that implies there can be no change in rules regarding horsemeat standards; for example residual levels testing versus guaranteeing a horse has never had exposure to drugs xyz. I'm not saying this is going to happen in the US, but it clearly is llikely overseas from the UK development of carcass testing.

                          This thread was specifically about bute, that's what I responded to and to the attitude from a poster who believes that bute in the food chain doesn't matter. It's much easier to remove a drug from the market then it is to try to regulate it. Bute is generic, doesn't have backing by big pharma, and has no use in humans. The vast majority of people couldn't care less if it was available or not.

                          And no one is going to foot the bill for millions of dollars in testing to determine a safe level of residual bute in horses. There's just not enough money in it.

                          When the story broke about horse meat in "beef" in the UK, one of the first things I read was not a suggestion to raise horses specifically for consumption, it was a call to "ban these horrible drugs".

                          Your "right" to make a buck the way you want to doesn't trump my "right" to provide what I think is appropriate medical care to my horse.
                          There is testing for residuals in the UK. They are keeping it out of the human food to the best of their knowledge.

                          True, this does not address giving bute to horses. If they can test and clear carcasses for residuals they may choose not to address that at all.
                          Last edited by D_BaldStockings; Apr. 19, 2013, 07:14 PM. Reason: clarify who wrote what

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            I'm intrigued that over the years, those who are stridently opposed to horse slaughter have shifted from 'save the poor horses' to 'save the poor humans from exposure to bute.' I really view it as a weird disconnect. In years past, how many posts about the evil folks who eat horsemeat- and now the tack seems to be 'keep the food chain safe.' Seems far more appropriate to me, in a horse forum, to focus on good horse welfare, but hey, carry on.

                            Meanwhile anyone with the bucks could go save some nice horses in Spain from slaughter: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/04...tims-economic/

                            Yes, horses destined for slaughter due to economic downturn. It's a reality in this world, folks.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by 7arabians View Post
                              Analise,
                              As the official GG apologist, you are pure emotion. To defend the complete annihilation of the Morgan breed could only be done by a very emotional entity. At least with the $millions that GG produces, they can certainly afford to pay you better to sit on forums to defend them from the truth being exposed!
                              Sorry to wander off on a tangent, but I'm wondering how I missed the complete annihilation of the Morgan breed? There are some studs breeding them here, if you guys need us to send a few back to you?

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by D_BaldStockings View Post
                                So you would support a ban on HSUS because they are deceptive and corrupt?


                                No, the HSUS and satellite groups have rights to their own absurd idea of a world without animals in human hands.

                                Remember, our rights also end at their feet, so they can have their rights too.

                                Now, when it comes to them breaking laws and regulations for who they are, a non-profit group, that needs to be addressed thru the appropriate laws and regulations.

                                Too bad the HSUS and followers don't offer the rest of the world the same courtesy by respecting our rights, when the drive to further their agenda falls into using subterfuge, myths and out of context to outright fabricated lies.

                                Comment


                                • #76
                                  Originally posted by Beverley View Post
                                  I'm intrigued that over the years, those who are stridently opposed to horse slaughter have shifted from 'save the poor horses' to 'save the poor humans from exposure to bute.' I really view it as a weird disconnect. In years past, how many posts about the evil folks who eat horsemeat- and now the tack seems to be 'keep the food chain safe.' Seems far more appropriate to me, in a horse forum, to focus on good horse welfare, but hey, carry on.

                                  Meanwhile anyone with the bucks could go save some nice horses in Spain from slaughter: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/04...tims-economic/

                                  Yes, horses destined for slaughter due to economic downturn. It's a reality in this world, folks.
                                  I offer this answer to your question, because they really don't care for any animals, that is how they can be so misguided about what they want.
                                  Animals to them are a prop for their newfound religion, that is to change the world as it evolved, as it is today, where animals are one more natural, renewable resource for all, humans also part of that, to now a world where the human animal will be forbidden to be a participant part of that world, needing to be separated from the rest of the animal world.

                                  Absurd as that seems, well, that is the new religion for some extremists and so their drives are not to make horse lives better, but to eliminate all horses, as the domestic animals they are and so not acceptable, in their strange world view.

                                  As one HSUS member posted before, "a world without humans would be fine, so no animal is abused".
                                  Ohhkay.

                                  Comment


                                  • #77
                                    Originally Posted by Beverley
                                    I'm intrigued that over the years, those who are stridently opposed to horse slaughter have shifted from 'save the poor horses' to 'save the poor humans from exposure to bute.' I really view it as a weird disconnect. In years past, how many posts about the evil folks who eat horsemeat- and now the tack seems to be 'keep the food chain safe.' Seems far more appropriate to me, in a horse forum, to focus on good horse welfare, but hey, carry on.

                                    Meanwhile anyone with the bucks could go save some nice horses in Spain from slaughter: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/04...tims-economic/

                                    Yes, horses destined for slaughter due to economic downturn. It's a reality in this world, folks.





                                    Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                                    I offer this answer to your question, because they really don't care for any animals, that is how they can be so misguided about what they want.
                                    Animals to them are a prop for their newfound religion, that is to change the world as it evolved, as it is today, where animals are one more natural, renewable resource for all, humans also part of that, to now a world where the human animal will be forbidden to be a participant part of that world, needing to be separated from the rest of the animal world.

                                    Absurd as that seems, well, that is the new religion for some extremists and so their drives are not to make horse lives better, but to eliminate all horses, as the domestic animals they are and so not acceptable, in their strange world view.

                                    As one HSUS member posted before, "a world without humans would be fine, so no animal is abused".
                                    Ohhkay.
                                    Bluey I think Beverly was talking about posters on COTH.
                                    I don't think what you posted in any way resembles the horsemen who post on COTH. Maybe through the prism of your bias it does, but even that is hard to imagine. If you could clarify that, who the above quoted post was referring to, it would be appreciated.

                                    Beverly, opinions should evolve, don't you think?
                                    When you know better, you do better. As you learn, hopefully your view changes and your opinion too changes. It could get more resolute, or it could sway in another direction completely.
                                    Otherwise, if we're not learning and our opinions evolving, why do we interact with one another at all?

                                    And yes, way, way, way back when I first started posting about slaughter, I very well could have posted that I thought eating horse was wrong. Since starting this journey, however, I've learned way more than I ever wanted to know about slaughter, simply because I understand that to object to it, I need to first understand it.
                                    Through that learning process, my opinion has evolved.

                                    So while I am very interested in horse welfare, and humane handling, I am ALSO interested in not sending an export out of our country that is considered contaminated by the country it's destined for.
                                    Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

                                    http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

                                    Comment


                                    • #78
                                      Originally posted by JackieBlue View Post
                                      Well.....unless you're that 1 in 30,000. Aplastic anemia isn't just a "reaction". Aplastic anemia, when treated, has a 5 year survival rate of about 70%, for young, otherwise healthy individuals. People over 40 realize a 5 year survival rate closer to 50%. Relapse is common, even after successful treatment and 10-15% of severe aplastic anemia cases convert into myelodysplastic syndromes and leukemia. If you ask me, losing 1 in 30,000 red meat eaters because of bute in the food chain is 1 in 30,000 too many.
                                      Except the 1 in 30,000 does not apply to people eating very small residual amounts in meat. Aplastic anemia is serious, no doubt, but you are making the wrong conclusion here.

                                      1 in 30,000 is the risk associated with people who at taking the drug therapeutically.

                                      The laws about bute are old and based on old science. I wonder is there was any money to be made selling bute (there isn't since it is a cheap generic now) if a company would do the residue studies. If someone did, they might show that bute can be safely cleared. Since nobody is going to do them, bute will probably always be banned in food animals. So the horse meat people will just have to comply.

                                      Anyone that thinks cattle never get bute is dreaming though.

                                      Comment


                                      • #79
                                        I am really not sure why this is being debated. It's not like there is legislation to be voted on in this or any country that would lift the ban of bute in horse meat.

                                        The EU says no - so no it is.
                                        ************************
                                        \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"

                                        Comment


                                        • #80
                                          It would only be no if the EU was the only market for the meat. It is not the only market.
                                          I support equine meat processing as an option for those who choose to use it.

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