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The true risk of bute (not the hysterical rara version)

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  • #41
    Update for posts on the other site from the mods - "Unfortunately, we won't be able to import the content posted yesterday on the development site, so please accept our apologies again for the trouble and confusion."

    Comment


    • #42
      so posting some of the links for future reference

      Testing of carcasses for phenylbutazone

      http://www.food.gov.uk/news-updates/...eb/horse-tests

      So apparently there is a currently available test with 48 hr turnaround, at least in the UK.

      And this is an interesting read
      http://www.sciencemediacentre.org/ex...nd-horse-meat/

      Comment


      • #43
        link provided by newhorsemommy:

        I believe I can help you with that. FYI, all you have to do is highlight a reasonably short sentence, right click, and then choose "Search Google for..." whatever term you have highlighted. I found the article in seconds. It's also easy to see when people are citing Wickipedia as the gospel.

        Here's two probable sources I found. In either case, the OP left out a good chunk of the information:

        http://www.ema.europa.eu/docs/en_GB/...C500142039.pdf

        http://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/press/news/130415.htm

        Comment


        • #44
          My next question is, If there is a carcass test that has 48 hr turnaround, could that possibly be used on tissue taken from LIVE horses to divert them from slaughter?

          Would a buyer who intends to ship to slaughter not pass up 'tested positive' horses as unprofitable?

          Just a thought.


          -honestly folks, you do not want to find out about the withdrawal periods for chemical products used on vegetables grown in the US -and how imported veggies and fruits are NOT subject to the strict conditions of US growers...

          Vegan or omnivore, there is a lot of potential toxin residue risk out there.

          http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...06919209000530

          Comment


          • #45
            Ah, food safety. And food producer integrity. Makes you want to ban an entire business, like...peanut butter, for example:

            http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2013/0...tter-outbreak/

            http://news.discovery.com/human/heal...eak-121012.htm

            not to mention the horrific results of possible aflatoxin contamination if aspergillis might be found -it is known to grow on peanut butter...

            http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/002429.htm
            http://news.consumerreports.org/heal...-nutshell.html

            I am going to take the risk. I eat peanuts.
            I don't want someone else to ban them; I am all for testing that they are safe by all means possible.

            Comment


            • #46
              Originally posted by 7arabians View Post
              So, as several new slaughterhouses begin to warm up for debuts in the next several weeks
              Do you just sit around all day dreaming up BS to post?

              The USDA has not given any grants of inspection to the slaughter house applicants as of Tuesday, April 16th.
              Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
              http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
              http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg

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              • #47
                Originally posted by jenm View Post
                Do you just sit around all day dreaming up BS to post?

                The USDA has not given any grants of inspection to the slaughter house applicants as of Tuesday, April 16th.
                You forgot the rest of that story, they have not because it is tied in the budget that Obama presented and is under discussion.
                If it passes as written, there won't be any money for inspectors.

                Does that seem a familiar reason for that?

                Comment


                • #48
                  So because we know that many of our food producers have no integrity, we should give them a free pass? I don't think so.

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                    You forgot the rest of that story, they have not because it is tied in the budget that Obama presented and is under discussion.
                    If it passes as written, there won't be any money for inspectors.

                    Does that seem a familiar reason for that?
                    Whatever, Bluey.

                    Catherine Cochran, a spokeswoman with USDA’s Food Safety and Inspection Service (FSIS), said Tuesday three of the six applicants are not currently working with FSIS towards a grant of inspection. USDA is not actively engaged with Oklahoma Meat Company, Tennessee-based Trail South LLC and Missouri-based Unified Equine LLC, she said. Cochran explained the applications were either incomplete or the applicant has lost contact with the agency. FSIS is reviewing applications that have been filed by Missouri-based Rains Natural Meats, Iowa-based Responsible Transportation LLC and New Mexico-based Valley Meat Company LLC.

                    “USDA cannot predict at this time when a grant of inspection for any of the active applications might be approved,” she stated.

                    Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
                    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
                    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by LauraKY View Post
                      So because we know that many of our food producers have no integrity, we should give them a free pass? I don't think so.

                      I don't think so either. Tests need to be used to safeguard consumers. And there is a big stretch between not having integrity and not being 100% perfect.

                      All foods have some level of risk, as they are not magically created to order but grown in real environments. Knowing the risk, people make their choices.

                      Unless governments make those choices for them: non-federally inspected local meats and eggs, farmstand veggies, unpasteurized dairy products are all consumed outside of government standards for mass marketing and transport of edibles. But they can't be sold commercially in the USA.

                      No Federal Inspectors literally downsizes or eliminates producers from the large market.

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #51
                        I stand by the odds of reacting to any bute in consumed horse meat as being 2 in a trillion. Obviously, the sisterhood of contemplative rara's is still shell-shocked by science and the fact that they have been exposed as hysterical whiners!

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          I'm so glad our food safety issues aren't left to you.

                          Originally posted by 7arabians View Post
                          I stand by the odds of reacting to any bute in consumed horse meat as being 2 in a trillion. Obviously, the sisterhood of contemplative rara's is still shell-shocked by science and the fact that they have been exposed as hysterical whiners!
                          The problem with political jokes is that they get elected.
                          H. Cate

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Originally posted by 7arabians View Post
                            I stand by the odds of reacting to any bute in consumed horse meat as being 2 in a trillion. Obviously, the sisterhood of contemplative rara's is still shell-shocked by science and the fact that they have been exposed as hysterical whiners!
                            You can stand by whatever odds you want to. At this point in time it is against the law to process for human consumption, a horse that has ever had bute, even once, in it's lifetime.

                            If you think that is a spurious law then work to change it. Present your scientific evidence to a body of lawmakers to effect that change.

                            Because until that law is changed what you think doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

                            For the record I have spent the vast majority of my adult career working in toxicology. I too doubt that a person would be endangered by bute ingested by eating horse meat. But I've not done the research, and certainly don't intend to. If you want so badly to make a living sending horses to slaughter maybe you should just pony up to have the research done.

                            My horse has had bute. I don't know many performance horses that haven't.

                            I'd much rather have someone put a bullet into him when the time comes then to send him to a slaughter plant. Me? I don't need to make those last few dollars off of an animal that has looked to me as a protector and leader for years.
                            "Some people are born on third base and go through life thinking they hit a triple” – Barry Switzer

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                            • #54
                              Originally posted by 7arabians View Post
                              Oh Analise,
                              You are capable of much better! 2 in a trillion, 1 in 2 million! Oh and by the way, if you mainline bute into an arthritis patient, 1 in 30,000 might react!!! Sure looks different when you remove the sill emotions, doesn't it?

                              Well.....unless you're that 1 in 30,000. Aplastic anemia isn't just a "reaction". Aplastic anemia, when treated, has a 5 year survival rate of about 70%, for young, otherwise healthy individuals. People over 40 realize a 5 year survival rate closer to 50%. Relapse is common, even after successful treatment and 10-15% of severe aplastic anemia cases convert into myelodysplastic syndromes and leukemia. If you ask me, losing 1 in 30,000 red meat eaters because of bute in the food chain is 1 in 30,000 too many.
                              "Absent a correct diagnosis, medicine is poison, surgery is trauma and alternative therapy is witchcraft" A. Kent Allen
                              http://www.etsy.com/shop/tailsofglory

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                ---I'd much rather have someone put a bullet into him when the time comes then to send him to a slaughter plant. Me? I don't need to make those last few dollars off of an animal that has looked to me as a protector and leader for years."---

                                Sure YOUR horse, but why would you think you should tell others what to do with THEIR horses?

                                Last I checked, this is the USA, land of the free, where one's rights end at the feet of their neighbor.

                                How would you feel if now some of the largest non profit in the world would spend their resources and propaganda machine on mandatory slaughter for any horse that is not of use alive any more, so you can't shoot yours as you wish, but have by law to send it to slaughter for one more use, so it doesn't become a liability to dispose of?

                                Right.
                                You impinge on other's rights at the risk of losing your own.
                                What is at risk here, the right to even have animals, here a drive to ban horse slaughter, there some other, on all the fronts those animal rights groups are attacking all uses of animals.

                                Just think about that before you choose to interfere with what others may do or not that is legal to do by following animal rights extremist bandwagons to ban this and that.

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by mswillie View Post
                                  You can stand by whatever odds you want to. At this point in time it is against the law to process for human consumption, a horse that has ever had bute, even once, in it's lifetime.

                                  If you think that is a spurious law then work to change it. Present your scientific evidence to a body of lawmakers to effect that change.

                                  Because until that law is changed what you think doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

                                  For the record I have spent the vast majority of my adult career working in toxicology. I too doubt that a person would be endangered by bute ingested by eating horse meat. But I've not done the research, and certainly don't intend to. If you want so badly to make a living sending horses to slaughter maybe you should just pony up to have the research done.

                                  My horse has had bute. I don't know many performance horses that haven't.

                                  I'd much rather have someone put a bullet into him when the time comes then to send him to a slaughter plant. Me? I don't need to make those last few dollars off of an animal that has looked to me as a protector and leader for years.
                                  You have valid points. Our point has been the process that decided Bute and other chemicals should NOT be present in HORSE MEAT. When the E.U. was developing their standards for food importation there had been a contaminated supply of cabbage spread into four different countries. This resulted in no deaths however much sickness.

                                  The group opposing equine meat became very vocal in the Netherlands, Germany and France. As the cabbage was contaminated by a spray, they jumped into the debate and said that horses required EXTRA testing and EXTRA bans on substances and they even included fly spray ever touching the horse.

                                  It was not based on science, but on an opportunity to thwart the equine slaughter industry.

                                  Of course NONE of us want food of any type to kill the consumer. Defeats the purpose. We must also be careful that we do not allow groups without ANY scientific evidence (there is none for BUTE) to add it to a list that can not be found in horse meat.

                                  With a slow collapse of the E.U. (this will take a long time but will occur) there are going to be many challenges to ALL foods. This is now a time the VEGAN groups are joining together to try and stop ALL slaughter.

                                  The horse meat industry was just the starting point.
                                  The Elephant in the room

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                                    Sure YOUR horse, but why would you think you should tell others what to do with THEIR horses?
                                    You do have the right to slaughter your own horse. That wouldn't be taken away.
                                    Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
                                    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
                                    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Originally posted by jenm View Post
                                      You do have the right to slaughter your own horse. That wouldn't be taken away.
                                      Moot question when we lose our rights to have any animals, would you say.

                                      We are not talking directly about slaughtering your own horse, but of the drive by animal rights extremist to ban horse slaugher.
                                      Think about that a bit, do you really think a ban horse slaughter will not include ANY horse?

                                      I would not be surprised that, if the ban horse slaughter law is passed, it may include ANY horse slaughter, even that of your own horse.

                                      I sure didn't see any exclusions for that in the misguide, failed attempt to pass similar bills in 2007.

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by Bluey View Post

                                        Sure YOUR horse, but why would you think you should tell others what to do with THEIR horses?

                                        Last I checked, this is the USA, land of the free, where one's rights end at the feet of their neighbor.
                                        I know it's the US, I've been here since I was born and I'm very familiar with rights.

                                        I'm not saying that you can't eke those last few dollars out of your horse, you certainly may if you wish. But right here, right now, irrespective of how the regulations came about, there is a ban on bute. There is a ban on all food animals that have had bute. If you don't like it, change it.

                                        BTW if you happened to have read what I have done for a living the majority of my life you would know that I'm hardly one to throw my lot in with animal rights extremists.

                                        In re-reading my post I don't see where I stated that you couldn't send your horses any where you want. But if they've had bute you can't. That's the law. You don't get to circumvent what may be a public health issue in the name of what you perceive to be your "rights".

                                        You can't slaughter any animal for human food that has had bute, not just horses. You don't get a special pass just for horses.
                                        "Some people are born on third base and go through life thinking they hit a triple” – Barry Switzer

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                                        • #60
                                          The hallmark of a weak argument is name calling. If you can not get your point across without name calling, you don't have one.
                                          McDowell Racing Stables

                                          Home Away From Home

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